MMcD

Happy 2019 to everyone….It’s been awhile.
The concern that led me to discover BE (same day I also sent my 1st post )…..is what brings me here now…

Does anyone know what the contractual obligation is on the part of a UK Annuity Payer (an Insurance Company) to ensure that periodic distributions are deposited (wired) into an Annuitant’s specifically designated Bank Account - on a specific date?
I have done an exhaustive Google search but can find nothing

…. a bit of background: (warning: this gets down into the weeds, beyond the arcane):

I have 3 Annuities at 2 different UK companies
Both companies have had the same Wire Instruction details on file - and used them successfully for the past 7 years.

During that time payments went to: Citi London
They were transmitted electronically as BACS payments.
And were always received in my account on exactly the date they were meant to be.

Recently, I had to change my account for receipt of these fixed, pounds sterling, periodic payments.
And so - I amended my standing Wire Instruction with both companies
The revised Instruction directs payments go to my new account at: Citibank NA, London
And Wires now require an IBAN, which I have provided

One of the Companies has made the requested changes to my Wire instruction.
They even sent a courtesy minimal “test” payment to ensure new instruction had been successfully applied to the policies.
It has.

The other company adamantly, categorically, obstinately, inexplicably refuses to abide by my instruction.
They will not include the required IBAN in their wires.
The result is:
Wires lost
Payments delayed

I’ve now had an email exchange with them over the course of 8 weeks, that is nearing 100 messages.
Innumerable phone calls, at ungodly hours, sleep disruption (I’m in CA. so 8 hour time difference).
Even had supervisor of Global Wire Team for my new account intervene on my behalf with the &*!#ing Operations Outsourcer for the Insurance Company.
All to no avail.

To cut to the crux…
Company refuse to recognise the essential difference between CitiLondon and Citibank NA, London.
The former is a domestic bank.
This means payments from the company’s local bank can be received as BACS transmissions.
However, Citibank NA, London (despite its physical location at the same address as the other Citibank branch) is an OVERSEAS bank.
“NA” in its name stands for North America.
As such - it won’t accept BACS payments (since they’re designated for transmittals between UK banks)

so - that’s why I’m inquiring as to an obligation on part of the Insurance Company to honour my revised Wire Instruction - so as to continue making periodic payments into my new account, on a designated date - as opposed to sitting in never- never land, lost in the bowels of the (wrong) bank.

What recourses might I have to get this sorted?

because till it does....the sheer stupidity of this Gordian Knot is

Driving Me Crazy

cranston

They maybe right

NA stands for 'National Association', not 'North America'. As such Citibank NA, London (sort code 18-50-08), is a "full branch" of Citibank NA head office. That's a common legal structure for banks in London to use. And I know Citibank NA London has GBP accounts for clients and access to BACS etc.

There could also be a separate legal structure under the 'CitiLondon' name (IDK). Do they have separate sort codes? If the sort codes are the same they are same legal entity. If they are different please post the 'CitiLondon' sort code.

I'm pretty sure the legal contract will have a get out clause for them.

MMcD

There was no "Sort Code" in old wire instruction. There's none in new instruction.
There's a SWIFT ID in new instruction.
It is: CITIGB2L
This appeared in old instruction, as well - tho it was categorised as a Routing Number

Thank you for the correction re meaning of "NA"
It re-iterates fact that the bank branch is a (US) Federally mandated institution

I believe there is no valid reason for them to refuse to follow the new wire instruction.
Why do you refer to "a get out clause"? Get out of what?

The issue is that for some unknown reason the Insurance Company's payments Outsourcer won't include an essential detail needed in their wires for payment to reach my account.
Other company had no objection and demonstrated their agreement to the change by immediately sending a test wire. It included the required IBAN

I'm wondering whether I should contact the Financial Ombudsman?
Might do just that in the morning...

cranston

get out of any responsibility for late payment to you.

A bank (such as Citibank Na, London) can be both a full London branch offering all the usual banking services in the UK to UK citizens and institutions, and still be US owner and controlled bank. They do not have to be separate legal entities

Read this on IBANs and Sort Codes. This may clarify the issue.
https://www.business.hsbc.uk/en-gb/p...s/iban-and-bic

Hotscot

This is crazy. They should have no reason to refuse IBAN's.
I do wires between Europe and US all the time.

Can you have a third party handle the wire if they refuse?

(Pulaski may have some insight when he's back.)

MMcD

Yep, extrapolating from the IBAN - that's the Sort Code
Thanks for link ( I'd actually printed that very page out weeks ago when first began to decipher wire wizardry trivia)
Bottom line: My own particular account at Citi requires wires to Citibank NA, London include an IBAN.
Without it Citi does not know what to do with the wire.
I filled out an online form on Financial Ombudsmen's website today. Detailed the issue. They say they respond within 3 days
I'm not looking to file a complaint. Just want to continue receiving monthly payments without further hassle

Thanks again for trying to help....

MMcD

Thanks Hotscot
Crazy is an understatement
Mind-boggling
No,there's no one I know personally who can intervene....but as I said in reply to Cranston - I just contacted Financial Ombudsman.

Will ask whether they're willing to make a phone call on my behalf to person who manages "Operations" for Company's Outsourcer.

What is so confounding is the form they have people fill out when requesting payments be made to "Overseas Banks" - includes a long space for IBAN numbers/letters. I think the issue is that they probably maintain the branch in question isn't an "Overseas Bank" - so it can't have an IBAN
But it does!

mrken30

Slightly unrelated question, but I am curious why you changed from receiving your money into the Citi UK account? I have both UK and US accounts which allow for easy transfers.

MMcD

For reasons unrelated to any of this I'm unable to continue using the old account for my Annuity payments.
As they say -
"Hindsight is 20/20", right?
Had no idea there would be any problem.
There shouldn't be.
The issue isn't the bank
And it isn't the new account
As I see it- it's the fault of the Outsourcer who sends the Wire payments on behalf of the Annuity Insurance Company
The fact that another Company, with whom I have other Annuities, readily complied with this new wire instruction seems to demonstrate that.
Dealing with all these faceless entities while separated by a continent, an ocean and 8 time zones over the triviality of IBAN vs BACS has become excruciating

mrken30

It may be easier to just setup a transferwise account to receive these payments

MMcD

Not ready to throw in the towel just yet - but idea of TW had occurred to me if all else failed.

I've never used them and have some questions - but before asking I'd first want to know whether they would even be acceptable to the Insurance Company:
At the time I converted my Pension Policy to an Annuity the Instruction Form that accompanied the Acceptance form said payment could only be made to one's Bank/Building Society Account or by cheque in the mail

If that's the case and if I agreed to that stipulation when I signed the contract - do you (or anyone) know whether TransferWise would be an option?

lansbury

Pulaski

I am not entirely sure what contact you have had with the paying insurance company, other than that you noted that they refused to include the IBAN. .... What contact did you have? Web/email, phone/call center, in writing/snail mail?

MMcD

Opened a Borderless TransferWise account yesterday ( to have as back-up plan if all else fails )....
Have questions - but they're closed for phone calls/chat on weekend

Main question is:
My "British Pounds" TransferWise Account shows:
UK Sort Code: 23-14-70
Address: TransferWise
56 Shoreditch High St.
London E1 6JJ

I Googled that sort code here: https://bank-code.net/uk-sort-code
And It doesn't appear there.
Nor does Barclays Sort Code web page match that: https://bank-code.net/uk-sort-code/b...s-bank-plc/240
Does your Borderless Account, Lansbury (or anyone), actually specify a specific UK Bank/address/sort code etc?

Another question is:
I also opened a US Dollar Account
It has an ACH Routing Number: 026073150
I Googled that and found it belongs to Community Federal Savings Bank, Suite 1115, New York 10019
There's also a Wire Routing Number: 026073008

Question is: Since I definitely want payments to remain in Pounds until I decide to exchange for dollars. .....
Can US Dollar Account, which at least links to an actual US Bank, accept pounds for deposit?

as I type this, knowing what I've encountered till now with this &^*+ing Company, I'm thinking I'd jump from frying pan to fire to inferno were I to change wire instructions again.....?????

Pulaski

Be aware that a "borderless account" with Transferwise is not actually a bank, therefore your "deposit" is not protected by deposit insurance in any country/currency.