snowbunny

There were numerous land deeds to this entire area recognised by the American government and not willingly ceded by their owners. Much of the southwest was taken through military action and not through a purchase from the country in question like the Louisiana purchase. While it's true that those governments (like France) didn't take a poll of the current citizens in the colonies it sold, there was at least a quasi-legitimate transaction. Not true in the case of the lands in the southwest.

I don't know many Pierres** who live in impoverished countries -- Canada and France have fairly high standards of living and national health care for their citizens. Most Canadian ex-pats I've met do not want American citizenship because they want they right to go home if they become catastrophically ill. Pedro, on the other hand, has a government that must be kept at bay through supporting the party in power and through the offering of "mordidas" or bribes. Maybe Pedro needs to work here in order to have some cash to put in the government's hat next time the local police have a whip-round.

**offer not good in Haiti or the Dominican Republic. But Pierre from there tends to come via boat over the Gulf of Mexico rather than by car over the Ambassador Bridge.

anotherlimey

Does this mean that if Britain decided the War of Independence was unfair and declared the current land comprising the USA is in fact British, that all us Brits can come over and illegally start working here?

Just because another country owned the land and it was taken from them doesn't mean it's population can cross the border anytime it likes.

Rete

Why would being a US/Canadian citizen stop a Canadian from returning to Canada if they become catastrophically ill? Depending on the province they would have a few months wait regardless once they are considered a non-resident of Canada to have their healthcare reinstated but holding citizenship from another country would not interfer with that.

Tone

Beats the UK border guards

Manc

How does one become a Chelsea Pensioner?

will Kerry Dixon be allowed to become one upon retirement age?

snowbunny

Come over, there are actually a fair few Brits (and Irish) here working illegally. Our immigration policy is a complete farce.

You're right, to the victor go the reconstruction contracts. Same as is going down in Iraq.

A nation's credibility is judged on its interactions between other "civilised" governments. Having begun appropriating land and oil through force, and backing out of several key international treaties, the US has undone any credibility and good will it earned as a result of WWII.

We used to be taught in school that yes, the US did take lands away from other nations, especially Native American nations with whom they'd signed treaties, but then the spacious and beautiful Indian reservations were always hastily mentioned. We were taught that that was a different time, when the US was young and definitely not politically correct, and was still clawing out an existence. "Manifest destiny" was to stop at the Pacific Ocean, and it did. But no one mentioned that Hawaii had been taken from a sovereign power in a revolutionary coup by Americans.

So -- the US historically takes the land it wants and gives the citizens and existing government the big middle finger. That trend is now accelerating and the leadership is now unabashedly backing out of treaty after treaty. We now cannot blame any other country for similarly deciding not to honour any treaties with us, and the ones who "honour" them either want our money or don't want to piss us off. There is no longer any credible international law. All illegal immigrants bring it on, though remember, your government will not be able to help you if you are imprisoned. You may be denied consular access and an attorney, even sentenced to die, but if you're willing to run those risks, come on over.

NC Penguin

Your comments above reminded me of a 10,000 Maniacs song about the treatment of Native Americans. The song is "Among the Americans" and the link is to the lyrics.




NC Penguin

snowbunny

Love the Maniacs Natalie Merchant is a very talented woman.

I am obviously in the Wrong Place. I desperately need EU citizenship.

grapefruit&milk

Aiaiai---if that's really how you perceive the situation, than you probably should skip on over to Europe. (You've already got the British spelling down pat.) But is the grass always greener on the other side of the fence? Clearly, for the thousands risking life and limb to get here, grass really is greener here, despite their ostensible hatred of our government's "imperialist" tendencies. My own encounters with international media sources suggest that the old colonialist powers of Europe are just as guilty for oppressing the citizens of much poorer nations, sometimes under the guise of "liberating" them from poverty/totalitariasm, just as we claim to do. Or conversely, they reveal spineless "pacifist" tendencies by refusing to intervene in situations where obvious atrocities are taking place (often in former colonies) that they could easily eliminate through military action. US and EU share the blame. Yet the EU member countries get less press for their imperialist acts because they are the dominant global force like the US is, but we can hardly exculpate them for their own corrupt actions.

This might seem a little reductionist, but ultimately doesn't it come down to personal taste--which gestures in foreign diplomacy do we actually prefer? Neither EU nor US nor Mexico nor Sierra Leone have a monopoly on morality--made obvious by the fact that there is so much dissention in global events.

snowbunny

You're a junior member, so: I am leaving for the UK as soon as I can, but I share custody of my two kids and for now cannot even leave Texas, speaking of poverty and totalitarianism.

And I wouldn't trust international media sources any more than I would trust domestic sources. It's better to travel or to talk to people who live in other countries. Also, FDR pressured the colonial powers in Europe into giving up their colonies as a pre-condition to aid during and after WWII. The forced and sudden switch of power has a lot to do with the difficulties in transitioning from a colony to a "democracy" run by the "natives."

The Mexican border will never truly be closed because people on both sides want it to be porous. The flow of people, money, and goods, especially illegal drugs, is too important to people on both sides of the border; they don't want it hampered more than in the token way that currently exists.