NC Penguin

What do you think of private citizens "guarding" the Arizona/Mexico border?

The whole concept was started by the Minuteman Project.

Here's a couple of articles on the topic.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...-2005Apr4.html

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...n-border_x.htm



NC Penguin

Rete

The articles todate show they have up until now been peaceful and have actually been helpful in the case of one alien who was sick. They have also helped capture some aliens coming across illegally, radioed in their position to the authorities who then apprehended them.

I'm a USC and I'm all for it. Think it will help highlight the need for more adequate border patrols from the government.

Rete

Bob

Can be a good thing, as long as they then call for the authorities rather than get stuck in on there own...don't need vigilantes...

fatbrit

But do you think the problem can be addressed by sealing the border?

The task is virtually impossible in terms of required manpower and resources. Look at the manpower that the Soviets dedicated to securing the Iron Curtain, and then look at the thousands upon thousands who found a way to cross it. Sorry, it simply isn't possible. By all means tighten it and keep it efficient, but only as a small part of many other measures.

If the US government wished to do something about it, they would be far better cutting off demand by making it a near impossible task for those who come here illegally to work and live an acceptable life. This is not a difficult task: the infrastructure is already mostly in place to do it and it will not directly inconvenience those who live here legally.

The problem is that there is absolutely no political will to so do.

If any benefit at all can come from the vigilante red necks on the border, it will be that the politicians of all parties finally get the message that they are fed up with the hypocrisy of the government in the selective enforcement of such a major area of the law.

tony126

Certainly do not disagree with your statement.

Pulaski

True, but I can't understand why, .... because the electorate seems overwhelming in favor of booting the swarthy little bu99ers back from whence they came! It is a rare politician who doesn't jump on such an obvious band waggon, and yet this band waggon is almost completely unencumbered by politicians.

ImHere

Its called Money and Political Favours. Just because the public are in favour has no bearing.

snowbunny

Those "swarthy little buggers" actually do more work for less money and are a fully integrated and accepted part of many communities. I've lived very near the border and I'm not in favour of giving them the boot nor do I feel threatened by them -- in large part they don't want any trouble nor do they make it.

For example, their "swarthiness" is a great asset if working road and building construction in the brutal Texas summer sun. I'd turn into one giant red skin cancer.

Manc

still illegal.

especially when we've all paid thousands to do it right.

Lion in Winter

Sure it's illegal, but:

a) this country wants them. Businesses actively hire and in some cases even bring them. Keeps the prices/costs down

b) many of those who come are desperate. The cost of living in Mexico is almost the same as here now, except things like gas and meat which cost more. But salaries do not compare. My friend who is staying with us at the moment had a 60 hour a week job (executive-type job) for which he was paid the equivalent of about $600 USD a month. Can't feed and house a family on that. And he's one of the ones who's better off.

Until the inequities are addressed, they'll keep coming. I would, if it meant feeding my kid.

(Sorry, pet topic.)

Evening by the way.

Pulaski

a) Define "this country" - most people I know would like to see them kicked out, at least until they come in the "right way" - in a controlled and documented manner, applying for visas, and paying taxes like the rest of us do!

b) So ****ing what, most people around the world are in a fairly deparate situation, but that doesn't mean that they should get a free ride to the US. Just 'cause Mexicans can scramble through the desert doesn't mean that we should welcome them.

BTW If they are so good for the country, productive, industrious and all that, why isn't Mexico an economic superpower, like the US, Japan or Germany?

Lion in Winter

a) The economic interests of the U.S.A, in this case. Since when has a government represented all the thoughts or desires of the people it governs? I would add that among the people I spend time with, most do not either want them kicked out or believe it to be feasible.

b) I can see that you don't welcome them. I was explaining the reasons for their coming, and that they won't stop coming until the causes are addressed. The fact remains that much of U.S. agriculture and industry does welcome them, however.

BTW: I'm sorry, but this part just doesn't make any sense. Are you suggesting that Mexican people, as such, are "bad workers" or something and so can't make their country rich? There are all kinds of reasons why Mexico is not an economic superpower - the corruption of its government and the systematic pillaging of its riches by a very privileged few (concentration of wealth in Mex. is extraordinary), the debt service to the U.S., the fact that it does not control overseas territories where it can get cheap goods and labour as the U.S. does, etc. etc. Ask an economist for the rest, not a sleepy philosoher who has just started a new job.

englishnurse

we could do with some of the british public to stand at the entrance to the channel tunnel over here heheh

snowbunny

I'd agree with you if I hadn't watched special interests outsource my job to India after bringing the workers in on temp visas claiming a worker shortage. I have absolutely no faith in any kind of fair or sane immigration policy in this country nor any real hope of one ever being reached. What is the difference between an illegal worker from Mexico working construction, vs an Indian worker sitting in Bangalore with my job (I trained them, and was told that my job was "safe")? I don't resent either the Mexican or the Indian, but in real terms the Mexican is doing more good for the US economy than is the Indian whose total wages are spent at home. Both are microeconomies, trying to feed themselves and their families. Both come from countries that are overpopulated, have fewer work opportunities, and corrupt governments with wide income gaps between rich and poor.

I paid thousands too, to get years of schooling including a bachelor's degree and some graduate coursework. Students in India are chosen on a merit lottery based system and receive university training nearly free, since they are expected to turn round and contribute heavily to the economy once they graduate. American new university graduates cannot compete with Indian-trained workers whose education was paid for by their government -- first off they have to earn enough to pay back their student loans.

And there is the legitimate claim that where I'm sitting used to be Mexico.

Manc

how is it a legitimate claim?

Michigan used to be French, but I don't see Pierre making a run for the border at Windsor.