221g and FAM need experienced advise
Oct 12th 2001, 3:47 pm
#1
BE Enthusiast
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 333
After our 221g request for more information at the Bombay Consulate, my fiance complied and returned with requested information. They did not even look at, or take the two things they specifically asked for but took our correspondance and told him to call or email for a new interview.
Due to new phone system, they know perfectly well that the Bombay Consulate does not have the capacity for a person to person exchange, and emails to them go untended.
I have been in contact with my congressional liason from the beginning. My fiance even noted that "congressional" was written on our petition. But now she tells me she can do nothing more, even though on "search" here i have seen that liasons have directly contacted the Consulates. All i asked her to do at this time was to interject to reschedule his appointment, as who knows where our file is now.
I have searched the newsgroups for 221g's and read thru a thread of 76 messages that i find has put me into a sad state.
It seems the consular officer can judge a case to be suspicious and deny it just on his suspicions, no matter what? If you have seen my other threads you may recall that we have very solid proofs of our relationship.
The thing that drew a flag on our case is that there is a age difference (older woman/younger man...seems like no one flags the older man/younger woman match). But remember this is Bombay where flags go up all the time. Of the last 5 of us on this board who went thru Bombay 3 got a 221g. Seems they should just include it in the packet 3.
We are unsure of what state our petition is in at this point. One of the Bombay applicants was put in "adminstrative review" but it was noted on the 221g. Ours did not have this notation. After his second attendance he was handed back his original 221g.
My question is ... what are the FAM laws on this? Does administrative review require written notice to the beneficiary?
Due to new phone system, they know perfectly well that the Bombay Consulate does not have the capacity for a person to person exchange, and emails to them go untended.
I have been in contact with my congressional liason from the beginning. My fiance even noted that "congressional" was written on our petition. But now she tells me she can do nothing more, even though on "search" here i have seen that liasons have directly contacted the Consulates. All i asked her to do at this time was to interject to reschedule his appointment, as who knows where our file is now.
I have searched the newsgroups for 221g's and read thru a thread of 76 messages that i find has put me into a sad state.
It seems the consular officer can judge a case to be suspicious and deny it just on his suspicions, no matter what? If you have seen my other threads you may recall that we have very solid proofs of our relationship.
The thing that drew a flag on our case is that there is a age difference (older woman/younger man...seems like no one flags the older man/younger woman match). But remember this is Bombay where flags go up all the time. Of the last 5 of us on this board who went thru Bombay 3 got a 221g. Seems they should just include it in the packet 3.
We are unsure of what state our petition is in at this point. One of the Bombay applicants was put in "adminstrative review" but it was noted on the 221g. Ours did not have this notation. After his second attendance he was handed back his original 221g.
My question is ... what are the FAM laws on this? Does administrative review require written notice to the beneficiary?
Oct 12th 2001, 11:41 pm
#2
Guest
Posts: n/a
tara wrote:
>
>
>
For 221G FAM law, see this page and *start* reading at document 40.201 :
http://www.foia.state.gov/fam/fams.a...=2&id=10&fam=0
Alvena
-----------------------
Doc Steen Site: http://www.mindspring.com/~docsteen/...o/visainfo.htm
=========================================
I am not a lawyer and this is not immigration advice. This is my personal opinion,
posted for the purpose of discussion only. Locate an immigration attorney in your
area at: http://www.aila.org
=========================================
>
>
>
For 221G FAM law, see this page and *start* reading at document 40.201 :
http://www.foia.state.gov/fam/fams.a...=2&id=10&fam=0
Alvena
-----------------------
Doc Steen Site: http://www.mindspring.com/~docsteen/...o/visainfo.htm
=========================================
I am not a lawyer and this is not immigration advice. This is my personal opinion,
posted for the purpose of discussion only. Locate an immigration attorney in your
area at: http://www.aila.org
=========================================
Oct 13th 2001, 6:24 am
#3
BE Enthusiast
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 333
up all night reading
Thanks Alvena,
I have found what i believe are the applicable segments of the FAM. AND it appears our OF-194 was not fully filled out. or they are toying with us.
Here is a copy of the OF-194 he received:
.................................................. ..........
Dear Visa Applicant,
This office regrets to inform you that you have been found ineligible to receive an immigrant visa under the following section(s) of the immigration and Nationality Act of 1952, as amended. The information contained in the paragraph(s) marked pertains to your application. Please disregard the
unmarked paragraphs.
[ ] Section 212 (a)(4) which prohibits the issuance of a visa to anyone likely to become a public charge.
[ ] Section 212(a)
[X] *checked* Section 221(g) which prohibits the issuance of visa to anyone whose application does not comply with the provisions of the immigration and Nationality Act of 1952 , as amended.
[ ] Further consideration will be given to your visa application upon the presentation of the following :
[ ] Medical reports of
[ ] Three color photographs (see reverse)
[ ] Birth Certificates (see reverse)
[ ] Certified copy of the Alien Registration Card (Green Card)[ ] Notorised Affidavit indicating that ___________________ is physically present in the united states.
[ ] Credible evidence of adequate financial support.
[X] *Checked* - Other: All correspondence between petitioner and him, cards, letters, telephone bills. Petitioner's travel documents, tickets, hotel bills, boarding pass, appointment letter, leave application.
Please return to this office with the item(s) requested above, your passport, and visa issuance fee ($65) at 7.45 AM Monday through Friday. This application is valid for 12 months. If you do not present the requested items within this period, you will be required to pay again the
appication fee ($260). Section 203 (e) of the immigration and Nationality Act requires the cancellation of your application if you fail to take the requested action within one year following a visa denial under section 221(g). Should you fail to return by the last working day of the
current month, you may expect a delay of two months or more in the processing of your visa application.
The Visa section is closed to the Public on the last workday of each month.
(Vice) Consul
Consulate General of United States
Mumbai, India (FORM I - 194)
.................................................. ........
NOW HERE ARE THE FAM LAW'S THAT I FOUND RELEVANT:
.................................................. .......
9 FAM 42.81 PN1 Refusal Procedures
(TL:VISA-285; 05-17-2001)
If the consular officer determines that the applicant is not eligible for a visa the following actions should be taken.
9 FAM 42.81 PN1.1
Inform the Alien Orally and in Writing
INA 212(b) requires officers to provide timely written notice that the alien is inadmissible. The written notification should provide the alien (and the attorney of record) with:
(1) The provision(s) of law on which the refusal is based;
(2) The factual basis for the refusal (unless such information is classified);
(3) Any missing documents or other evidence required;
(4) What procedural steps must be taken by the consular officer or Department; and
(5) Any relief available to overcome the refusal.
.................................................. ....
BY (4) WE TOOK IT TO MEAN COME AT THE ADVISED TIMES AND THEY WILL REVIEW THE "MISSING" INFORMATION TO SEE IF IT ALL IS THERE. AND IF IT IS SATISFACTORY SUPPLIED THEY WILL ISSUE THE VISA, AS PER (5).
.................................................. ......
9 FAM 42.81 PN1.2 Prepare Form OF-194
(TL:VISA-285; 05-17-2001)
a. When an applicant is refused a visa, the consular officer shall prepare Form OF-194, Refusal Letter and Refusal Worksheet, explaining the ground(s) of ineligibility and the steps, if any, which may be taken to
overcome the refusal. The front page of Form OF-194 provides an opportunity to check, as grounds for refusal, INA 221(g), 212(a)(1), or 212(a)(4) and also provides space to insert additional ground(s) of ineligibility under INA 212(a) and to explain the basis of the refusal. Form
DSL-851(A), Brief Description of Aliens Ineligible to Receive Visas, may also be used in conjunction with Form OF-194 to explain grounds of ineligibility. The consular officer should ensure the explanation is complete
and sets forth the facts that led to the determination that the applicant is ineligible.
.................................................. .........
THIS WAS DONE, 221g WAS CHECKED.
.................................................. ..........
9 FAM 42.81 Procedural Notes Page 2 of 7
If the applicant is refused under INA 221(g), consular officers should be sure to list all documents that are lacking, as well as any available information for
obtaining them. Merely noting "Documents submitted not sufficient" is inadequate.
.................................................. .......
THIS WAS DONE IN OVERKILL. OF THE 10 LISTED LACKING ITEMS, HE HAD 8 OF THESE AVAILABLE TO THEM DURING THE INITIAL INTERVIEW. THE REMAINING TWO ARE TRIVIA. THE APPOINTMENT LETTER REFERS TO HIS JOINING THE INSTITUTE HE IS EMPLOYED BY, AN EVENT THAT HAPPENED 2 YEARS+ AGO, AND HE HAD COLLATERAL PROOF OF EMPLOYMENT. THE LEAVE APPLICATION REQUESTED IS THE PROOF THAT HE ASKED OFF WORK FOR 3 DAY HOLIDAY WE TOOK. I LIVED WITH HIM FOR 3 MONTHS AND WE TOOK WEEKEND TRIPS.
UPON RETURN TO THE CONSULATE, HIS FULFILLMENT OF THE MISSING DOCUMENTS WAS THROUGH.
.................................................. ........
Applicants who are ineligible under INA 221(g) must be
informed of the provisions of INA 203(g) concerning termination of registration [see 9 FAM 42.83(b)].
.................................................. ........
THIS IS PREPRINTED ON FORM
.................................................. .......
If an applicant is refused a visa under INA 221(g) resulting from post actions, posts should annotate the OF-194 to indicate that the case has been refused pending an investigation, an advisory opinion, or administrative processing, as appropriate.
.................................................. .......
THIS IS WHAT IS MISSING ON OURS AND HAS US IN LIMBO. IT STATES ABOVE IF THE 221g RESULTS FROM "POST ACTIONS"...ONE OF THESE THREE ANNOTATIONS SHOULD BE MARKED..investigation/ advisory opinion/ or administrative processing. I HAVE SEEN ANOTHER BOMBAY GENERATED 221g AND IN THE PLACE WHERE OURS IS CHECKED AND THE 10 ITEMS ARE LISTED, THEIRS HAS IN PLACE "CASE IS PENDING FOR ADMINISTRATIVE PROCESSING". THIS LEADS ME TO BELIEVE WE DO NOT FALL UNDER ANY "POST RESULTANT" ACTIONS, BUT THAT OURS WAS DEEMED A PERSONAL LACK OF INFORMATION.
.................................................. ......
The applicant should be given a realistic estimate of the time needed for the processing and instructions on how the applicant can follow-up at the end of this period.
.................................................. ........
NOT ONLY WERE WE NOT GIVEN THIS BUT WHEN HE APPEARED THE SECOND DAY WITH THE "LACKING" PAPERS THEY TOOK ONLY A PORTION AND PUSHED THE REST BACK WITHOUT EVEN A GLANCE. THEN TOLD HIM TO CALL OR EMAIL. BOTH OF THESE ARE DEAD ENDS.
.................................................. ..........
I READ ON AND GOT TO THE APPENDAGES AND FOUND THIS SEGMENT
.................................................. ..........
FAM PART IV Appendix E,
700 INSTRUCTIONS RELATING TO CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENCE
(TL:VISA-269; 05-02-2001)
9 FAM 701 PROMPT RESPONSES ESSENTIAL
(TL:VISA-269; 05-02-2001)
It is most important to answer promptly inquiries from Members of Congress. Posts may respond to inquiries by telegram, e-mail, a letter or fax. Posts are reminded that congressional inquiries must be answered within 3 working days. Implicit in the congressional use of a telegram is a
desire for a prompt reply, preferably within 2 working days. Replies to such inquiries should be courteous and friendly, and the content as fully responsive to the inquirer as possible under the law and regulations. Posts
should also try to anticipate and answer further questions which may arise based on the information post is providing.
FAM 703 USE LAYMAN’S LANGUAGE
(TL:VISA-269; 05-02-2001)
Drafters should prepare telegrams, letters, faxes or e-mails in unclassified language intelligible to the layman. Posts should send telegrams through Department facilities using the format shown in 9 FAM Part IV Appendix E, Exhibit I. Drafters should keep in mind that congressional offices frequently forward post communications directly to the
interested constituent.
.................................................. .......
REMEMBER MY CONGRESSIONAL LIASON HAS SAID SHE CAN DO NOTHING ELSE! ALL I ASKED HER TO DO AT THIS POINT IS FIND OUT THE STATUS OF OUR CASE. I UNDERSTAND SHE CANNOT INFLUENCE THE OUTCOME. BUT IT APPEARS THERE IS NO LIMIT TO THE TIMES SHE CAN POST THE CONSULATE, ESPECIALLY WHEN THERE HAS BEEN MOVEMENT ON THE PETITON.
.................................................. .........
AM I INTERPRETING THE FAM CORRECTLY?
I BELIEVE I SHOULD RECONTACT THE CONGRESSIONAL OFFICE. BUT HER DEMEANOR WAS COLD TO ME THE LAST CALL I MADE. I SAW WHAT A NICE JOB YOU DID OF DRAFTING A POSSIBLE VERBAL SCENARIO TO THE SS THREAD. I MAY HAVE ONE SHOT AT CONVINCING HER THAT I HAVE UNDERSTOOD SHE IS NOT AT THE END OF HER ABILITY, BUT HAVE SOME SMALL TREPIDATIONS OF HOW TO APPROACH HER.
ANY SUGGESTIONS?
I have found what i believe are the applicable segments of the FAM. AND it appears our OF-194 was not fully filled out. or they are toying with us.
Here is a copy of the OF-194 he received:
.................................................. ..........
Dear Visa Applicant,
This office regrets to inform you that you have been found ineligible to receive an immigrant visa under the following section(s) of the immigration and Nationality Act of 1952, as amended. The information contained in the paragraph(s) marked pertains to your application. Please disregard the
unmarked paragraphs.
[ ] Section 212 (a)(4) which prohibits the issuance of a visa to anyone likely to become a public charge.
[ ] Section 212(a)
[X] *checked* Section 221(g) which prohibits the issuance of visa to anyone whose application does not comply with the provisions of the immigration and Nationality Act of 1952 , as amended.
[ ] Further consideration will be given to your visa application upon the presentation of the following :
[ ] Medical reports of
[ ] Three color photographs (see reverse)
[ ] Birth Certificates (see reverse)
[ ] Certified copy of the Alien Registration Card (Green Card)[ ] Notorised Affidavit indicating that ___________________ is physically present in the united states.
[ ] Credible evidence of adequate financial support.
[X] *Checked* - Other: All correspondence between petitioner and him, cards, letters, telephone bills. Petitioner's travel documents, tickets, hotel bills, boarding pass, appointment letter, leave application.
Please return to this office with the item(s) requested above, your passport, and visa issuance fee ($65) at 7.45 AM Monday through Friday. This application is valid for 12 months. If you do not present the requested items within this period, you will be required to pay again the
appication fee ($260). Section 203 (e) of the immigration and Nationality Act requires the cancellation of your application if you fail to take the requested action within one year following a visa denial under section 221(g). Should you fail to return by the last working day of the
current month, you may expect a delay of two months or more in the processing of your visa application.
The Visa section is closed to the Public on the last workday of each month.
(Vice) Consul
Consulate General of United States
Mumbai, India (FORM I - 194)
.................................................. ........
NOW HERE ARE THE FAM LAW'S THAT I FOUND RELEVANT:
.................................................. .......
9 FAM 42.81 PN1 Refusal Procedures
(TL:VISA-285; 05-17-2001)
If the consular officer determines that the applicant is not eligible for a visa the following actions should be taken.
9 FAM 42.81 PN1.1
Inform the Alien Orally and in Writing
INA 212(b) requires officers to provide timely written notice that the alien is inadmissible. The written notification should provide the alien (and the attorney of record) with:
(1) The provision(s) of law on which the refusal is based;
(2) The factual basis for the refusal (unless such information is classified);
(3) Any missing documents or other evidence required;
(4) What procedural steps must be taken by the consular officer or Department; and
(5) Any relief available to overcome the refusal.
.................................................. ....
BY (4) WE TOOK IT TO MEAN COME AT THE ADVISED TIMES AND THEY WILL REVIEW THE "MISSING" INFORMATION TO SEE IF IT ALL IS THERE. AND IF IT IS SATISFACTORY SUPPLIED THEY WILL ISSUE THE VISA, AS PER (5).
.................................................. ......
9 FAM 42.81 PN1.2 Prepare Form OF-194
(TL:VISA-285; 05-17-2001)
a. When an applicant is refused a visa, the consular officer shall prepare Form OF-194, Refusal Letter and Refusal Worksheet, explaining the ground(s) of ineligibility and the steps, if any, which may be taken to
overcome the refusal. The front page of Form OF-194 provides an opportunity to check, as grounds for refusal, INA 221(g), 212(a)(1), or 212(a)(4) and also provides space to insert additional ground(s) of ineligibility under INA 212(a) and to explain the basis of the refusal. Form
DSL-851(A), Brief Description of Aliens Ineligible to Receive Visas, may also be used in conjunction with Form OF-194 to explain grounds of ineligibility. The consular officer should ensure the explanation is complete
and sets forth the facts that led to the determination that the applicant is ineligible.
.................................................. .........
THIS WAS DONE, 221g WAS CHECKED.
.................................................. ..........
9 FAM 42.81 Procedural Notes Page 2 of 7
If the applicant is refused under INA 221(g), consular officers should be sure to list all documents that are lacking, as well as any available information for
obtaining them. Merely noting "Documents submitted not sufficient" is inadequate.
.................................................. .......
THIS WAS DONE IN OVERKILL. OF THE 10 LISTED LACKING ITEMS, HE HAD 8 OF THESE AVAILABLE TO THEM DURING THE INITIAL INTERVIEW. THE REMAINING TWO ARE TRIVIA. THE APPOINTMENT LETTER REFERS TO HIS JOINING THE INSTITUTE HE IS EMPLOYED BY, AN EVENT THAT HAPPENED 2 YEARS+ AGO, AND HE HAD COLLATERAL PROOF OF EMPLOYMENT. THE LEAVE APPLICATION REQUESTED IS THE PROOF THAT HE ASKED OFF WORK FOR 3 DAY HOLIDAY WE TOOK. I LIVED WITH HIM FOR 3 MONTHS AND WE TOOK WEEKEND TRIPS.
UPON RETURN TO THE CONSULATE, HIS FULFILLMENT OF THE MISSING DOCUMENTS WAS THROUGH.
.................................................. ........
Applicants who are ineligible under INA 221(g) must be
informed of the provisions of INA 203(g) concerning termination of registration [see 9 FAM 42.83(b)].
.................................................. ........
THIS IS PREPRINTED ON FORM
.................................................. .......
If an applicant is refused a visa under INA 221(g) resulting from post actions, posts should annotate the OF-194 to indicate that the case has been refused pending an investigation, an advisory opinion, or administrative processing, as appropriate.
.................................................. .......
THIS IS WHAT IS MISSING ON OURS AND HAS US IN LIMBO. IT STATES ABOVE IF THE 221g RESULTS FROM "POST ACTIONS"...ONE OF THESE THREE ANNOTATIONS SHOULD BE MARKED..investigation/ advisory opinion/ or administrative processing. I HAVE SEEN ANOTHER BOMBAY GENERATED 221g AND IN THE PLACE WHERE OURS IS CHECKED AND THE 10 ITEMS ARE LISTED, THEIRS HAS IN PLACE "CASE IS PENDING FOR ADMINISTRATIVE PROCESSING". THIS LEADS ME TO BELIEVE WE DO NOT FALL UNDER ANY "POST RESULTANT" ACTIONS, BUT THAT OURS WAS DEEMED A PERSONAL LACK OF INFORMATION.
.................................................. ......
The applicant should be given a realistic estimate of the time needed for the processing and instructions on how the applicant can follow-up at the end of this period.
.................................................. ........
NOT ONLY WERE WE NOT GIVEN THIS BUT WHEN HE APPEARED THE SECOND DAY WITH THE "LACKING" PAPERS THEY TOOK ONLY A PORTION AND PUSHED THE REST BACK WITHOUT EVEN A GLANCE. THEN TOLD HIM TO CALL OR EMAIL. BOTH OF THESE ARE DEAD ENDS.
.................................................. ..........
I READ ON AND GOT TO THE APPENDAGES AND FOUND THIS SEGMENT
.................................................. ..........
FAM PART IV Appendix E,
700 INSTRUCTIONS RELATING TO CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENCE
(TL:VISA-269; 05-02-2001)
9 FAM 701 PROMPT RESPONSES ESSENTIAL
(TL:VISA-269; 05-02-2001)
It is most important to answer promptly inquiries from Members of Congress. Posts may respond to inquiries by telegram, e-mail, a letter or fax. Posts are reminded that congressional inquiries must be answered within 3 working days. Implicit in the congressional use of a telegram is a
desire for a prompt reply, preferably within 2 working days. Replies to such inquiries should be courteous and friendly, and the content as fully responsive to the inquirer as possible under the law and regulations. Posts
should also try to anticipate and answer further questions which may arise based on the information post is providing.
FAM 703 USE LAYMAN’S LANGUAGE
(TL:VISA-269; 05-02-2001)
Drafters should prepare telegrams, letters, faxes or e-mails in unclassified language intelligible to the layman. Posts should send telegrams through Department facilities using the format shown in 9 FAM Part IV Appendix E, Exhibit I. Drafters should keep in mind that congressional offices frequently forward post communications directly to the
interested constituent.
.................................................. .......
REMEMBER MY CONGRESSIONAL LIASON HAS SAID SHE CAN DO NOTHING ELSE! ALL I ASKED HER TO DO AT THIS POINT IS FIND OUT THE STATUS OF OUR CASE. I UNDERSTAND SHE CANNOT INFLUENCE THE OUTCOME. BUT IT APPEARS THERE IS NO LIMIT TO THE TIMES SHE CAN POST THE CONSULATE, ESPECIALLY WHEN THERE HAS BEEN MOVEMENT ON THE PETITON.
.................................................. .........
AM I INTERPRETING THE FAM CORRECTLY?
I BELIEVE I SHOULD RECONTACT THE CONGRESSIONAL OFFICE. BUT HER DEMEANOR WAS COLD TO ME THE LAST CALL I MADE. I SAW WHAT A NICE JOB YOU DID OF DRAFTING A POSSIBLE VERBAL SCENARIO TO THE SS THREAD. I MAY HAVE ONE SHOT AT CONVINCING HER THAT I HAVE UNDERSTOOD SHE IS NOT AT THE END OF HER ABILITY, BUT HAVE SOME SMALL TREPIDATIONS OF HOW TO APPROACH HER.
ANY SUGGESTIONS?
Oct 13th 2001, 11:56 am
#4
Guest
Posts: n/a
tara wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
I'd go to the senator instead of the congressman and see if that helped. In some
states the senator does more good, it all depends on your state. HOWEVER, you might
also want to consider retaining an immigration attorney at this point, one who has
dealt with consulates successfully would be nice ; ) If it was me, I would look for
one of Indian descent...there is no experience like having been there and done that.
Alvena
-----------------------
Doc Steen Site: http://www.mindspring.com/~docsteen/...o/visainfo.htm
=========================================
I am not a lawyer and this is not immigration advice. This is my personal opinion,
posted for the purpose of discussion only. Locate an immigration attorney in your
area at: http://www.aila.org
=========================================
>
>
>
>
>
>
I'd go to the senator instead of the congressman and see if that helped. In some
states the senator does more good, it all depends on your state. HOWEVER, you might
also want to consider retaining an immigration attorney at this point, one who has
dealt with consulates successfully would be nice ; ) If it was me, I would look for
one of Indian descent...there is no experience like having been there and done that.
Alvena
-----------------------
Doc Steen Site: http://www.mindspring.com/~docsteen/...o/visainfo.htm
=========================================
I am not a lawyer and this is not immigration advice. This is my personal opinion,
posted for the purpose of discussion only. Locate an immigration attorney in your
area at: http://www.aila.org
=========================================
