Originally posted by Ranjini
This is too funny. Looks like we are all getting our lines crossed here. Sorry Rete.
I'll say no more.
I neither agree nor disagree with anything Dekka says. It is not my issue. Suffice it to say, that I do not fall into any one of the categories she mentions and do not wish to be in the line of fire. So I'm out of here. I think I can see the kind of mood she is in and I truly sympathise. Women are after all emotional creatures

Originally posted by Dekka's Angel
<snip> watched this board the entirety of the time I've been here and the fact that you have remained silent at some of the highly racist discussions that have taken place on the various forums in BE from time to time, yet deign from on high to lecture me about this in this context says a lot. I will take it for what it appears to be and - again, you may feel free to ignore me. But my experience is my experience, my anger and pain and sadness over this particular issue has been at the hands of the source source I identified, and I won't take back anything that I said about what I think people who come here with that crap need to do. Deal with it.

Originally posted by Leslie66
Why is it when a woman has a strong opinion she is immediately tagged as "emotional" or in a "mood"?

DA's husband came away with the same impression that she did about this particular woman. Was he just in a "mood"? Maybe he was experiencing "PMS", or is going through "the change".

This is the sort of claptrap I would expect from a man. But, in all fairness, most men know better.

Originally posted by Ranjini
Racism is something that doesn't bother me.

I avoid hanging out with any particular ethnic groups as a rule. I do hang out with my husband's family and friends (who are incidentally white) and have never felt excluded so why should I let it bother me?

Originally posted by Leslie66

This is the sort of claptrap I would expect from a man. But, in all fairness, most men know better.

Originally posted by Dekka's Angel
Is that we were not denied outright.

Yes, we had our AOS intereview today.

And at the present time, I have a husband who is trying to understand the linguistic difference between "arrogant, lazy bureaucrat" and American. Not to mention that I myself have had enough of all things related to immigration. And of people from a certain racial group assuming that all Black women's children must be illegitimate or have different fathers.

I'm on my way to an arbitration now, but here are the highlights and if folks want I can post more details:

1) Our interview lasted about 1/2 hour.

2) We had everything she (Officer Hongshu, I think - I have her name written down but can't swear that's right) asked for in terms of documents and evidence of bona fide relationship. At least, that's what she said.

3) Derek, as anyone who knows him understands, had a very hard time on specific dates. He had months and years (except for getting 2001 confused with 2002 repeatedly) down pat - but specific dates were less and less easy the more and more stressed he got. He even flubbed my birthday date, which is his passcode for his ATM cards and thus about as known to him as a date ever is going to get.

4) When being told we weren't getting a stamp today, in response to the question of what was wrong we were told first that she needed to get his medical records from when he entered at POE, which weren't with his file on her desk but were confirmed as in the building "somewhere" since they showed up on the computer system (we had his vaccination supplement and gave that to her). When I then asked her approximately how long it would take, she then told us that she needed to review his original I-129F application because it wasn't in the file (but refused the copy of it that I had with me, despite our interview letter *specifically* telling us to bring a copy just in case the file had to be recreated so that we could avoid having to wait).

5) At one point in the interview I was asked how many illegitimate children we had. No I didn't mishear it, because after I told her that I had no illegitimate children but had three children from my first marriage, she then asked me if we had any other "children out of wedlock" that we hadn't told her about, only to then proceed and ask if they all had the same father.

What follows below is a vent based on race. I accept that it is inappropriate generally, but I have had it on this subject after more than 20 years of this. And since this is a board for people trying to get into this country I want to make sure any potential immigrant who might bring a lot of racist baggage (or be open to that which they will find here waiting for them) avoids it in the future coming in the door.

In 21 years of motherhood I have only been asked about the legitimacy of my children three times - and all by Asians who were immigrants to this country (I have friends that this has happened to as well- and all at the hands of the same group). To ask the question at all, which is highly irrelevant to Derek's immigration status, takes a certain amount of foolish nerve and a set of assumptions about Black women and their children. I might be more patient with this rank ignorance but for the fact that I have also been subjected twice to the same group asking me if the reason I got married when I was 19 was because I was knocked up. (RANT PART - DO NOT READ IF EASILY OFFENDED. I am FED UP WITH THIS - so if you are indeed reading this and you are an Asian immigrant keep your racist unthinking IGNORANT ANTI-BLACK STEREOTYPES IN YOUR OWN DAMNED COUNTRY OR STAY HOME, BUT DO NOT COME HERE AND SUBJECT ME TO THEM - because it is only a Christian upbringing that keeps me and my friends from responding in the highly physical manner that you and your false assumptions about the whorishness of Black women deserve).

No I didn't give her the royal cussing out she deserved. I took a deep breath and answered the question. Both times. But if the look on my face had been translatable, I'm sure that Officer Hongshu is probably concerned about going to the parking lot for lunch.

6) The officer wanted to know why we took "so long after deciding we were in love before beginning the process of bringing him here to get married" (the gap was between 2000 when we fell in love to the end of 2001 when we got engaged to mid-late 2002 when our divorces were final). Now, setting aside the fact that I was told it was always a GOOD thing to take your time to marry after you fall in love, the question seemed diametrically opposed to what to me is the more legitimate concern for an officer trying to snuff out fraud - folks rushing to get married sight unseen to an immigrant. When we told her the truth (we were still legally married to other people, we took marriage seriously and thus when we realized that felt more than just a friendship we went back and spent the next year trying to save our existing marriages rather than be serial monogamists in the current fashion and just throw out the old for the new) she looked notably judgmental and disbelieving. Oh yeah, she didn't seem to care much for the fact that we met in Everquest, either.

6) There's lots more. She managed to get in a lot of offense and stupidity in 1/2 hour. And on our letter, she did not check that any part of his file was missing - she just checked "Further Review" and told us that she'd "try to get around to finishing this month".

Anyhow, no green card. Frankly, my theory is that her prejudiced, ignorant self couldn't grok having a roly-polly, older, and frankly rather plain Black woman sitting in front of her married to a clearly younger, quite handsome, White man who she met on the Internet nearly 5 years ago. Derek's hands were shaking afterward and he is currently both beating himself up about being "stupid" because he cannot remember dates (he has never been able to do so) and venting (and you haven't lived until you have seen an Aussie vent - even sober ) about what he perceived as a highly intrusive, highly judgmental experience that was a complete waste of our time (as well as the $28 to park our car for 2 hours).

We have decided that we are not subjecting ourselves to anything else. She said she didn't need anything else other than her own personal copy of the I-129F and his sealed medical, so we will sit and wait. And yes, for me I am finally beginning to see why Derek has repeatedly said that but for me, he'd gladly abandon this country. I'm about ready to do the same. I even have all the paperwork from when we were considering it a few months ago. I have given too much to this country to go through this crap.

I'm happy that the government is really doing it's job to discern legitimate, love based relationships from green card scammers. You just have no idea how reassured I am. Honest.

Off to arbitration now. Hope all is well with everyone.

Originally posted by Ranjini
Have you ever read John Gray's "Men are from Mars Women are from Venus"? He says, and I agree, that women and men are different because they operate in two different ways. Women react with their emotions, whereas men tend to be more logical. Just think about it. If one is able to accept this basic fact, one is able to understand a lot of things within a relationship between a man and a woman.
To me, it opened up a whole new way of thinking. I base my statement about emotions and moods on what I have read about this.

Originally posted by Paul Gani
"Dekka's Angel" <member8849@british_expats.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > after more than 20 years of this. And since this is a board for people
    > trying to get into this country I want to make sure any potential
    > immigrant who might bring a lot of racist baggage (or be open to that
    > which they will find here waiting for them) avoids it in the future
    > coming in the door.

In the past month or so, two different major surveys of the American people
were released dealing with the issues of race, and the issues of
homosexuality. They broke down the answers/opinions by age groups.

I came to a simple conclusion: people don't change. You develop an opinion
as a young adult, and you keep it your entire life. The same people who
disapproved of interracial marriage 40 years ago, disagree with it today.
Same with homosexual marriages/relationships. The only reason the
*country's* opinions change over time is because the bigots get old and die,
and the young people develop different thinking than their parents. I found
it heartening that among the newest adults, 18-26, their viewpoints on race
and homosexuals are extremely tolerant, which I personally believe bodes
well for the future integration of this country's population.

Paulgani

Originally posted by Leslie66
No. I don't read feel-good self-help fluff. I especially don't need to read a book, written by a man, in order to understand that men and women process information differently.

Originally posted by Dekka's Angel
In this context, I expect it from people who cannot see beyond their own experience into someone else's and therefore conclude that just because they personally do not feel the effects of something it is not important, such that those who report honestly what has occurred with legitimate rage are being themselves "racist" "oversensitive" and "in a mood". It is a common tactic in this country when discussions of race come up, used by people that are not personally affected by the ongoing now hundreds of years-old anti-Black racism.

I am sadly used to it.

Originally posted by Dekka's Angel
Yes, that seemed clear, but thanks for spelling it out anyhow.



If you don't know the answer to that question, then I truly feel sorry for you. Perhaps you should hang out with a broader base of people.

Originally posted by Ranjini
My husband tells a story of how he went into the Army with a friend whom he has known all his life and incidentally black. He tells of how he hung out with his friend and other blacks and of how when push came to shove, his friend took the side of his recent black friends against him. It is obvious that he was very hurt by this incident and decided to be more careful of how he chose his friends from then on. Ranjini

Originally posted by Leslie66
Excellent observation.

I am conditioned to hearing it (though rarely) from men who are attempting to discount my opinion when I feel strongly about something.

To be perfectly honest, this is the first time I have ever seen this tactic used on a woman by a woman. Pathetic.

Originally posted by Ranjini
I understand what you are saying as well, Matt. Because I am aware of how people of her race have been historically treated. It's natural to be offended if one did not realise why the questions were asked. To be quite truthful, I was never asked questions of this nature.
What I am saying is that one should restrain one's self when making such racially loaded statements. Just making a statement of token protest.