ukbritguyusa

Hi everyone,

haven't been on here for a while, but I thought I would post a quick message about an article I read today about the US stopping the Visa Waiver Program for most countrys, including England, in order to tighten security and to stop terrorists getting into the country.

I can't believe this is actually going to happen! I travel to the US a lot, for purely legitimate reasons (seeing friends, family, etc) and the thought of having to get a visa now to do this makes me so angry, especially after the special relationship we are supposed to have with the US!

I understand that terrorists are from every country, including Britain (that British "shoe" bomber), and that when countrys have finger prints and eye scans in their passports, they will be allowed to be in the VWP again, but the US has given everyone until October to get this done! Thats about 8 months!! England wasn't even going to try and start any of this until about 2 years! What a ridiculous deadline to suddenly impose on everyone!

Maybe I am missing something, but if our government doesn't try and fight this, I am going to be very disillusioned with everything.

For christ sakes! Our armed forces go and fight side by side with America, but then we are told we can't come into the country without visas??! They can stick their "special relationships" up their arse next time.

gazmix

Quite right, who do they think they are!
Contrary to their belief, not everyone wants to live there!
I may have a personal grudge againsed them & it's probably my fault cos i applied for a B2 visa when i didn't need to because of lack of knowledge & now face harder times going on the waiver, but never the less, we're supposed to be side by side in the fight againsed terrorism. **** that!

Mr Bush has just said that the Mexicans can work legally & most are illegal immigrants & the Bonafide traveller from the UK has problems going on holliday, probably i the future having to get a visa. The only thing on his mind is xtra votes! & licking arse.

Joachim Feise

ukbritguyusa wrote on 1/7/2004 16:04:
    >
    > I can't believe this is actually going to happen! I travel to the US

Obviously, it would be good not to spread rumors that have no basis
in reality...

The only things that DHS had announced a long time ago is that from 2002 on,
the airlines have to submit the data of passengers using the VWP electronically
to the US authorities (which they do), and that from Oct. 26, 2004, the
countries who participate in the VWP have to start issuing passports with
biometric features.
See http://www.dhs.gov/interweb/assetlib...12-31-2003.pdf

-Joe

L D Jones

ukbritguyusa wrote:
    >
    > Hi everyone,
    >
    > haven't been on here for a while, but I thought I would post a quick
    > message about an article I read today about the US stopping the Visa
    > Waiver Program for most countrys, including England, in order to tighten
    > security and to stop terrorists getting into the country.

Do you have a link to the article? The VWP is available to citizens of
the UK, not just England

Jaj

    >L D Jones wrote:
    > ukbritguyusa wrote:
    >
    >>Hi everyone,
    >>haven't been on here for a while, but I thought I would post a quick
    >>message about an article I read today about the US stopping the Visa
    >>Waiver Program for most countrys, including England, in order to tighten
    >>security and to stop terrorists getting into the country.

This story has been around for over 18 months, eg from:
http://travel.state.gov/state093239.html (section 9)

" ... Additionally, by October 26, 2004, in order for a country to
remain eligible for participation in the visa waiver program its
government must certify that it has a program to issue to its nationals
machine-readable passports that are tamper-resistant and which
incorporate biometric and authentication identifiers that satisfy the
standards of the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO). After
October 26, 2004 an alien seeking admission under the visa waiver
program must present such a passport unless the alien's passport was
issued prior to that date."

There will be a lot of pressure on the US to extend this deadline, but
that's the way things are for now. Passports of visa-waiver eligible
countries issued before Oct 26, 2004 will not be affected, at least for now.


    >
    > Do you have a link to the article? The VWP is available to citizens of
    > the UK, not just England

There is no such thing as an English citizen - people from England are
British citizens.

However, there are certain types of British nationality - such as
British Overseas citizen, British Subject etc - that do not qualify for
VWP, even if the person concerned has permanent residence in the UK.
Such a person needs to register as a British citizen first and get a
British citizen passport in order to be eligible for VWP.

Jeremy

michael of elth

michael of elth

your so right about the side by side bit but thats all it is in war against terroist not to countrys bonded by anything more if it where not for us usa would not have much support in the world take care

gazmix

If it wasn't for Britain, there wouldn't be a USA. History, History!!!

Joachim Feise

JAJ said on 1/10/2004 4:41:
    >>L D Jones wrote:
    >
    >> ukbritguyusa wrote:
    >>> Hi everyone,
    >>> haven't been on here for a while, but I thought I would post a quick
    >>> message about an article I read today about the US stopping the Visa
    >>> Waiver Program for most countrys, including England, in order to tighten
    >>> security and to stop terrorists getting into the country.
    >
    >
    > This story has been around for over 18 months, eg from:
    > http://travel.state.gov/state093239.html (section 9)

And see this link:
http://www.usembassy.org.uk/cons_web/biometric.htm
"The Visa Waiver Program is not being abolished in October 2004

Visa Free travelers seeking to enter the United States under the Visa Waiver
Program on or after October 26, 2004 should note the following:

* All travelers will require individual machine readable passports. Note: This
requirement is already in place for passport holders from Andorra, Belgium,
Brunei, Liechtenstein and Slovenia.

* Passports issued on or after October 26, 2004 must include a biometric
identifier. If your passport is issued prior to this date, provided it is an
individual machine-readable passport, you may continue to use the passport to
travel visa free even though it does not have the biometric identifier."

-Joe

Observer

Bullshit. Are you rewriting history?

It's pure bullshit what you just posted. It's the other way around.

If it wasn't United States, there wouldn't be a Great Britain today. History
indeed. Go and read it.


"gazmix" <member18625@british_expats.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Originally posted by michael of elth
    > > your so right about the side by side bit but thats all it is in war
    > > against terroist not to countrys bonded by anything more if it where
    > > not for us usa would not have much support in the world take care
    > >
    > If it wasn't for Britain, there wouldn't be a USA. History, History!!!
    > --
    > Posted via http://britishexpats.com

gazmix

Yes, this is true, but go back to why the states were formed, thats what i meant! so its the least they could've done

Kocourkov

In this case, the British Chicken came along a heckuva long time before the American Egg. No UK + colonisation= no USA. End of story.

The US is really going to suffer in terms of prestige because of this idiotic visa thing. It's like saying that because of the two American lunatics who caused problems in the UK (the Marine with the teenager and the bouncer who shot the policeman), ALL Americans should require visas for the country.

Will a few right wing Americans who hate the world feel happy and more secure? Of course. But then what will you say to all those poor schmucks who lost their jobs because tourists aren't coming from Europe or Japan anymore? Sure you don't have a job, health care or unemployment, but our nation is secure against everyone! (Except the guys who blew up the federal building in Oklahoma City, the Unabomber, et. al.)

A $10-15 billion industry.... poof! Gone.

No, European tousists will not wait 6 to 10 weeks for $100 visa for which they'll have to show bank reciepts, income statements, etc. They'll just go elsewhere for vacation or even forego the business. The numbers and anecdotal evidence already say that they're coming in fewer numbers, and this visa requirement will lead to a lot of confusion, bad publicity and people saying "screw it".

Yes, indeed. I've already shifted a wedding to outside the US because of the mere possibility of some of the guests getting caught out by this. More people will follow.

On the other hand, as a dual national, my net worth in terms of freedom to travel and work is gonna go way, way up....

supernav

Deadlines are necessary. Without it, countries just take their sweet ol' time, and every country gives their "estimate" on when they'll do it. And in the end -- no one does it.

By throwing a DEADLINE, countries scramble, dedicate resources, and GET IT DONE.

And in the end -- EVERYONE wins, cuz passports for everyone gets more secure. In this day and age, it's necessary.

Trust me, UK and others will get biometrics, etc. in their passports. It ain't that freakin' hard to get the bio, and print the passports. If they can print 9 million Harry Potter books in 30 days, they can do this.

If UK consultants can't do it. They can outsource it to some thristy indian IT guys in India who'll write the system for you.

-= nav =-

Kocourkov

But right now there's no international standard for biometrics, and the USA doesn't even have the equipment to read the stuff. Machine readable passports? Sure, but there's already standards, and heaven knows Belgium needed to be shoved in that direction.

Biometrics are another ineffective, feel good measure for the average American to feel like something is being done.

Mandating something and then expecting the rest of the world to fall in line is simply unrealistic and demeaning. And now the tourism industry and the image of the US abroad is going to suffer as a result.

It's not the tech, it's the HUMINT that counts for nabbing those who might try to get you.

Englishmum

On another forum here I pointed out this irony:

There are approx 5,000 people illegally crossing the Mexician border into the US every night. There aren't enough border patrols to monitor the arrivals (many of them are National Park Rangers). There are even water stations so the illegals won't die of dehydration on their way over. It's crazy.

It doesn't need a genius to work out that it is incredibly easy for any would-be Middle Eastern terrorists to go to a country in South America (where I imagine that in some of these countries, the immigration & customs procedures are not very vigorous and perhaps quite willing to take bribes). The would-be terrorists would be able to walk unchallenged across the Mexican-US border on a dark night....and since their skin, eye and hair colour is similar to the average Mexican, Colombian etc. they will hardly stand out amongst the other illegals.

I can't understand why there is so much emphasis on people flying in to the States (naturally with passports) on international flights when they haven't sorted out the land borders yet with Mexico and Canada.