meauxna

Please read this forum for 30 days and come back and tell me you can stand by that statement.

I'd call it totally wrong. There is a lot more to it than that.
Not on paper, in reality.

You also need to review the back/forth from Canada & US part of your plan. I think you'll find your time in Canada can be deducted from your US allowed time to visit. This has been discussed in the forums in the past 6 months if you care to do some searching.

crg

I've only studied the VWP for over a little less than a decade, but don't take my word for it.

Go to the Visa Waiver Wizard and click YES when you get to the question about ever being denied entry and see what it says.

http://www.usembassy.org.uk/cons_new...sa_wizard.html

ALSO:

http://travel.state.gov/visa/temp/wi....html#national

When does a national of a VWP country need to apply for a visa instead of using the VWP?

Nationals of VWP countries must meet the conditions noted in the section above in order to seek admission to the United States under the Visa Waiver Program. Travelers who do not meet these conditions must apply for a visa. In particular, a visa must be requested if the traveler:

* Wants to remain in the United States for longer than 90 days, or envisions that they may wish to change their status (from tourism to student, etc.) once in the United States;
* Wants to work or study in the United States, wants to travel as a working foreign media representative, wants to come to the United States for other purposes not allowed on a visitor visa, or intends to immigrate to the United States;
* Is a national of the Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Malta, the Republic of Korea, or the Slovak Republic AND DOES NOT HAVE an electronic passport with an integrated chip;
* Is a national of one of the VWP countries not listed above AND DOES NOT have a machine-readable passport (MRP)(depending on the date the MRP was issued, renewed, or extended, it may also need to contain a digital photograph or an integrated electronic chip);
* Intends to travel by private aircraft or other non-VWP approved air or sea carriers to the United States. Click here to see the approved carriers list;
* Has a criminal record or other condition making them ineligible for a visa (see Classes of Aliens Ineligible for Visas).
* Has been refused admission to the United States before, or did not comply with the conditions of previous VWP admissions (90 days or less stay for tourism or business, etc.).

crg

This is from the CBP Field Manual. It spells it out for the border guards:

(1) Refusals vs. Removals. 8 CFR 217.4 distinguishes determination of inadmissibility/refusal of an arriving VWP applicant for admission at a POE from the determination of deportability/removal of an alien admitted under the VWP.
(A) Refusals/Inadmissibility.
(i) General. An alien refused admission under the VWP on or after October 30, 2000 must obtain a visa before again seeking admission into the United States. Section 217(g) of the Act addresses VWP refusals at POEs on or after October 30, 2000. Section 217(g) requires “that an alien denied admission under the VWP obtain a visa before again seeking admission into the United States.” Visas: Passports and Visas Not Required for Certain Nonimmigrants—Visa Waiver Program, 67 Fed. Reg. 30546. Notwithstanding this requirement, a POE refusal of admission does not constitute a formal order of removal under the Act.


217(g)

(g) 7/ VISA APPLICATION SOLE METHOD TO DISPUTE DENIAL OF WAIVER BASED ON A GROUND OF INADMISSIBILITY- In the case of an alien denied a waiver under the program by reason of a ground of inadmissibility described in section 212(a) that is discovered at the time of the alien's application for the waiver or through the use of an automated electronic database required under subsection (a)(9), the alien may apply for a visa at an appropriate consular office outside the United States. There shall be no other means of administrative or judicial review of such a denial, and no court or person otherwise shall have jurisdiction to consider any claim attacking the validity of such a denial.

henryh

Could someone clarify the difference between denied entry, refused entry and allowed to withdraw application for entry?

paulw99

"I was under the impression that airlines wouldn't allow you to board if you don't have a return ticket...unless of course you have a visa/GC."

Absolutely not. I've travelled almost exclusively on one-way tickets over the last 10 years, including many visits to the United States. I got lucky with the Immigration people, but no airline has ever asked me for a return ticket.

henryh

American wouldn't let me board at LHR last September with the return portion of a BOS-LHR-BOS ticket. (travelling on VWP). I had to buy a one-way from another airline (though I got a refundable one and later changed it to something for suitable)

crg

A person may be offered the opportunity to withdraw their application for admission in lieu of removal proceedings before an immigration officer or an immigration judge.

It's usually reserved for those who may not have been aware of their inadmissibility ie: expired passport, no visa, wrong visa, prior overstay, minor CIMT. It's not usually offered to people with fake documents, or who lied.

The government doesn't have to offer it and rescind that option at their discretion.

The person either signs the form or they don't. If they sign it, they go back. Their visa is usually canceled. If they don't sign and depending on why the government believes they are inadmissible, they can be ordered removed on the spot by the immigration officer and barred for at least 5 years (that's called expedited removal), or be served with a Notice to Appear before an immigration judge. Lately, if someone is set to see the judge upon arrival in the US (and not an LPR) they are detained in a facility without bond until the proceedings are over. Sometimes they get out if it looks like they have a valid asylum claim (Cubans etc).

Visa Waiver applicants have waived their right to any review of the officers decision, so they are not allowed to withdraw because there is nothing to withdraw from. They aren't entitled to the removal proceedings. If refused under the VWP, they have no bar, but need a visa to seek entry again.

There is also something called VWP Removal. The person is ordered deported, but a judge never sees the case. If someone has been admitted VWP and is found in the US in violation of the immigration laws they are summarily removed and barred for at least 10 years. They would need a visa and a waiver.

crg

A smart airline will require a return ticket for a VWP passenger. If the passenger is denied, the airline must fly them back with that return ticket or for free.

If someone is admitted VWP for 90 days, and caught in the US years later and removed, the airline is still responsible for the return air fare even if they don't have a return ticket.

md95065

Are you both rich and stupid or do you have some secret way of buying one way tickets at a reasonable price?

The cost of even the cheapest one way ticket is usually at least double (and sometimes many times) the price of a carefully chosen return ticket. Even if you end up buying a pair of return tickets and not using the return portion of either of them it is usually a *lot* cheaper than buying one way tickets.

Bluegrass Lass

True, however if the immigration agent has suspicions, they could double check to ensure that reservation is legitimate. They could have direct access to airlines' computers to check, for all we know.

Are you stubborn, or can't you understand plainly spoken English? The US can deny entry to anyone they want for any reason at any time. As a visitor, you have no entitlement to enter the US.

Please do some research on this forum, as there have been several examples of people being denied and hassled in just the past 6mo or so. What you are planning is possibly doable, but you should research what the consequences are if border agents disagree with you. You could argue with immigration agents all you want about not having overstays or criminal records, but it won't get you anywhere. If they decide not to allow you entry, you have no recourse.

Like it has also been mentioned, just hopping over the border to Canada or Mexico will not restart your 90 days on the VWP.

paulw99

"Are you both rich and stupid or do you have some secret way of buying one way tickets at a reasonable price?"

Well I'm not rich, stupid maybe. When flying I try to find the best deal so I end up with airlines like Easyjet, Ryanair and Jetstar, where a return is simply two one-way tickets. I've found this to be the case with some of the major US Airlines as well (eg United).

I just checked expedia.co.uk and found on LHR-JFK and LHR-SFO that what you say is true - one ways are more expensive than returns! I hope the airlines aren't reverting to that price structure again.