Blindboyx10

Hi, im looking for some advice for my situation. I am 21 and an amateur boxer looking to spend 6 months or so in NY to compete in the golden gloves, i have a girl friend who i live with who is a american citizen but lives in the U.K and has done for 8 years. I have more than sufficient funds to cover me for the time i wish to spend out there.

I have already visited my girlfriends family with my girlfriend twice this year under the visa waiver for a week each with no problems. Id like to go back on october 14th for up to 6 months, i have already booked a return ticket coming back on the 10th of january which means ill be spending 88 days.

I am worried on several accounts, first that they wont allow me entry in october due to the fact that i have already been twice this year. I am also worried that when I want to return in january after coming back to the U.K they wont allow entry due to already having spent 88 days there.

Should I try and get B2 visa which would allow me to stay the full 6 months? Or should I try and get in twice under the visa waiver? What happens if you enter under the waiver and state that you are only staying a week and end up staying 3 months? Is it still viewed badly even though you have stayed under the 90 days?

Thanks All help is appreciated

ian-mstm

When were those visits? How long have you been outside the US?


You should be worried, yes. If the officer suspects (rightly or wrongly... and it's at his sole discretion) that you're living in the US without the proper visa, you'll get sent home. End of story.


If you are eligible for the VWP, you likely won't get a B-2 visa. If you apply for a B-2 and it's denied, you must thereafter declare that denied visa on every subsequent visa application to the US - including the VWP.


You are the only one who can properly weigh the risk/reward ratio on that. What's your risk tolerance?


Lying to gain an immigration benefit is punishable by a lifetime ban from the US. Do you feel lucky?

Ian

Blindboyx10

thanks for the reply ian, the first visit was in april, the second was at the end of june, both for 1 week. I have been in the u.k since.

At the port of entry,if there are problems,am i allowed a interview with somebody, were i can show proof that i am not looking "live" in the U.S, and am only seeking to compete in an amatuer competition?

Why would i not be granted a b2 visa if i am eligible for vwp? surely it is only beneficial that i am granted the vwp? if i was denied a b2 visa does that mean i absoloutely cannot travel under the vwp?

I am trying to establish the risk/reward ratio with the help of this post lol

How is it determined as lying? surely there are plenty of people who extend there holiday... so long as they dont extend there 90 day limit, it shouldnt be negative right?

JCraigFong

Is there a schedule of fights or cards or exhibitions or showcases or heats or whatever -- forgive my ignorance of your sport -- that you can show to a consular officer, that would verify your upcoming schedule? If so, and if you can show that them that you're a legitimate amateur boxer with an already-established record in the UK -- that you are (OK, I'll say it) a contender -- then you may be able to qualify for the B-2.

Yes, I realize -- at least, I think I realize -- that you're not yet a pro. But if there's an amateur circuit, if there's amateur rankings, ANYthing to show that you're "for real" in the UK, then a calendar of amateur competitions in the USA might pass muster, even with out the level of proof for an O-1 visa.

Now: you'll need to be careful on a number of levels. Yes, you'll need to demonstrate that you have enough to live on. Yes, you'll need to show that you WILL NOT -- repeat WILL NOT -- be working in the USA. Yes, you'll need to be careful NOT to run afoul of the rules for B-2 visaholders who win prizes. No, you had better not enter the USA for fights and then secretly plan to marry your girlfriend.

But with all that in mind, a B-2 might be possible. Otherwise, you're stuck with the VWP entries, and you'll need to exit frequently to avoid (a) overstaying and (b) being accused of living in the USA. Too frequent visits to the USA -- during which you stay for more than, say 2-3 weeks -- are a red flag, and you'll eventually get pulled into secondary.

Best of luck,

--J Craig Fong
Los Angeles, CA

Blindboyx10

Thanks for the reply, yes i hold a british amateur boxing card and a list of competitions and gyms which i will be attending.
I am worried though that if i apply for a b2 visa and am turned down that i will not be able to travel even under the waiver?
If i travel under the waiver and bring my boxing documents and bank statemants etc with me, is it possible that i am appearing to eager to prove my intentions at the port of entry?

So would you say i wouldnt have to worry the first time i go in october and announce that i am staying for 3 months with my girl friends family? If so should my plan be to stay under the waiver on my first visit for 3 months.... then return and try to obtain a b2...or risk going a second time for 3 months under the waiver?

Also, what happens if somebody arrives under the vwp and says they are staying a week or so and end up staying longer? Is this negative? is it even recorded,so long as you do not overstay the 90 days?

Thanks so much for your time

Noorah101

Being denied a B2 does not automatically prevent you from using the VWP in the future. You'd have to fill out ESTA and answer the questions honestly and see what happens. Some people get the clearance to use the VWP after a B2 denial, some don't, but it's not clear why.

Your true entry and true departure ARE recorded by the airline. There are no immediate negative consequences to stating you want to stay only 1 week and then changing your plans once inside the USA and staying up to 90 days. But keep in mind it might be more difficult to attempt another VWP sooner, if you've just finished a 90-day stay, rather than just a 1-week stay.

Rene

Blindboyx10

Any more info? it is appreciated guys....

JCraigFong

No. You're not too eager. The reality is that if you DID NOT have enough documentation, then someone would say you should have approached the US border better armed to demonstrate your intentions. Always better to be prepared.

No, I would NEVER say that one doesn't have to worry when approaching the US border. Not EVER. Even 12-year old girls have been traumatized, abused and strip-searched at the hands US border guards -- without apology or adequate explanation.

Without knowing more about your sport, I'd say that a "scouting" visit, where yes, you might stay at your gf's family's house, is OK. I'd be up-front about the purpose of your visit. Say that you are looking at gyms, at fights, at venues, at up-coming competitions, etc. Be very clear with the officer that you are NOT working, NOT looking for work, NOT planning on staying. You're just looking to see if you'd be able to compete in the USA.

If I were you, I'd plan to stay (for your "scouting" visit) a reasonable amount of time. The idea of MAXING OUT each visit to the 89th or 90th day is just ASKING for trouble. Stay for as long as it takes to meet with gym owners, meet with promoters, meet with competitors, learn about the up-coming matches, learn about how you can compete, learn about how to get yourself entered for several matches, etc. Then return to the UK armed with this knowledge, plan out a 4-6 month itinerary, and apply for the B-2.

Border guards are free to grant authorized stay, from a few days to 6 months (in the case of typical B-2 visaholders). Although regulations purport to tell the border guards how much time to allot to VWP and B-2 visaholders, the real truth is that border guards exercise their discretion all the time and often grant periods of authorized stay that are significantly less than the minimums that are parroted in the regulations. Never underestimate the discretion of the border guard.

It is UNCLEAR exactly what the border guard will enter onto the computer screen when you arrive. Such information is kept confidential for national security reasons. If you're given 90 days, then yes, you can stay up to the 90th day, despite what was said at the moment of inspection at the POE. HOWEVER, if you get in the habit of breaking your word at each entry, staying for 8 weeks instead of 8 days or something, then you may at some point have trouble getting a border guard to accept your word in the future.

I will leave to YOU to decide whether your word is your bond.

Best of luck.

--J Craig Fong
Los Angeles, CA

scrubbedexpat099

This competition lasts 6 months?

Even the pro's do not come over for that long.

Why not just go over for the vents, if there is a gap come back?

Bladerunner

The Golden Gloves is famous for being open to anyone, anywhere in the world. Even the average Joe on the street can enter. There are quite a few qualifying rounds before the finals at the Garden, but I don't think it would take longer than three months, would it?

If it does, this may be grounds for a B1 or B2. If not, I'd just visit on the visa waiver. I'm pretty sure your previous entries won't be a problem.

Blindboyx10

the golden gloves start in november....i need to go next month to start training and register....i also would like a few bouts in america before....what i am worried about is when i turn up in october and tell them i am staying for 88 days they are going to turn me away regardless...due to it not being a good enough reason and because i have already been twice this year? even if they do allow me entry... there not going to allow me entry under the vwp again in january for the golden gloves? even i say i am staying 1 month this time?

scrubbedexpat099

Nobody knows.

hannahlove7

Can never tell what immigration is going to be like at POE. I was really terrified when i went on my 88 day visit, with my daughter, and no real explanation other than wanting an extended break. I had previously been pulled into secondary screening on another visit for staying just 4 weeks, so i was ready for problems and came armed with letters from my friend that i was staying with and bank statements showing i had money - and proof that i had just paid my rent and car insurance back home (ties to home country).

As it happened, when i got to the US, i arrived into Newark, and the officer just opened my passport, asked me what i do for a living (told him about my business back home) and he stamped my visa and said he hopes i have a great time! Never asked how long i was there or anything! I was so shocked, and relieved, i can't tell you! All that worrying for nothing.

Afterwards, i spoke to an immigration lawyer who told me that the best time to approach the immigration line is when it is very busy, and stay back towards the end of the line, don't rush to be first through. Not sure if this is really true or not but they did seem under a lot of pressure when i got to the desk and were moving everyone through pretty fast. Pays to be very well prepared in any case - bring lots of paperwork with you!

I'm hoping to go back on B2 visa and am making an application real soon, against the better advice of many people on here but i have a somewhat 'different' circumstance - very strong home country ties because of my business, and plenty of money to look after myself in the US for that long, and other things so am going to take my chances and go for it. If it don't work out then i live and learn and either try something else another time or find somewhere else to go live and eventually move my business to . I love the USA but i came to the conclusion that you gotta just go for it and try once you are armed with as much knowledge as you can possibly find - make a decision only when you are sure you are aware of all the facts and can live or get over the consequences of something going wrong.

One of the sad facts i've noticed is that the more money you have the more favourably they tend to look on you too, especially for long visits. I could be wrong though here i don't know. Sure i might get in trouble for something i've said here which may be presumptious or wrong, just speaking from my own experiences.

scrubbedexpat099

Beyond the ability to support yourself for the visit it makes no difference.

I would need to go look back at your posts but a B2 app is usually a very bad idea in your circumstances.

hannahlove7

don't wanna take over this thread, but basically am wanting to spend some extended time researching business possibilities over there / finding a business to buy or to figure out a 'game plan' for doing my current business over there. Looking at E2 (most likely) or maybe L visas in the future. Just wanted to spend time researching in person over there before comitting.