Dshack

Hello all,

A friend of mine and her fiancee are in the interview stage of the visa
process. Her fiancee just interviewed in Bangkok, Thailand and was
dinied for the following resons.

*The Officer said that he needs to obtain proof that he is single,
though he has never been married.

*The officer also said that my friend (the sponsor) needs to supply
proof that she has paid taxes even though she supplied W2s for the last
three years.

* the Officer also said that my friend did not have sufficient funds in
the bank, although she has around 30k in savings and makes well over the
125% above poverty limit.

I have never heard of a person that has never been married having to
prove that he or she is single. i am sure the the officer is wrong about
the support issue, but I am not sure about the tax question.

does anyone have any advice regarding this?

Thanks in advance for all responses.

Regards

DS

Alzerom

The taxes part: A simple W2 doesn't mean you paid your taxes. A W2
shows how much an employer with held. If the person has a second job
that generates cash.... get it? Proof of taxation is the 1040 and
related forms.

Money it the bank: how long has it been there? Did it show a sudden
increase in size in preparation for the upcoming events with generous
temporary loans from family insiders? Or has it grown steadily and
reasonably from wage earnings and a modest lifestyle built upon the
1040 that was not produced above? Or is the bank account where the
cash money went?

You have reasonable questions but the story is too elaborate for third
party assistance, (that's you and me....)

Matthew Udall

If the officer was looking at the funds in the bank as an asset (savings in a bank are not "income"), then 30K of savings by itself does "not" meet the minimum income requirement. Assets are divided by a factor of 5, so 30K in savings would equal 6K of income.

M.U.

meauxna

I did.

Seems pretty common in Europe, so I can expand that into other parts of the world, even if the US isn't one of those parts.

Mrtravel

meauxna wrote:
    > Originally posted by Dshack
    >
    >>I have never heard of a person that has never been married having to
    >>prove that he or she is single.
    >
    >
    > I did.
    >
    > Seems pretty common in Europe, so I can expand that into other parts of
    > the world, even if the US isn't one of those parts.

It's not done in the US, because the federal government isn't
responsible for keeping track of this information, since marriages and
divorces are controled by states. In some countries, you have to keep
the national government informed about where you live.

ScottHenshaw

It seems to be fairly common in the Philippines that people are put on Administration Review while the embassy gets what is called a, "Cernomar" which is a certifcate of no marriage. I would assume that something may be simaliar in Bangkok.

Personaly, I think that there is more to the story than yoy are being told or telling us. The marriage thing could be put on reivew and verified. The income thing: something is flakey.

Advice... Use some of that 30k and get a good immigration lawyer, of which I am most certainly not.


Scott

jeffreyhy

Dshack,

I have heard of a Thai person having to prove they were single only once before, and that was to the BCIS (then INS) not the consulate. In that case the idiot USC included statements about a Thai wedding ceremony and some photos with his I-129f petition, as proof of the seriousness of the relationship. The INS, understandably ignorant of Thai law, figured that a wedding ceremony could well mean a legal marriage and sent the guy a RFE requesting proof that the the couple was not married already.

In Thailand marriages are registered with a district office, not with the national government, similar to the US. So your friend's fiance could try going to his district office (called an Amphur) and get a statement from them that he does not have a marriage registered there. Problem is, in Thailand one can register their marriage at any Amphur - it does not have to be the Amphur where one's house registration is kept or the Amphur where one actually resides. And the consulate officials understand this. There are hundreds of Amphurs in Thailand where a marriage could conceivably be registered. Hopefully there's more to the issue than you have been told and repeated in your post, and your friend's fiance will not have to get a statement from each and every Amphur.

Regards, JEff

.

"ScottHenshaw" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > It seems to be fairly common in the Philippines that people are put on
    > Administration Review while the embassy gets what is called a,
    > "Cernomar" which is a certifcate of no marriage. I would assume that
    > something may be simaliar in Bangkok.
    > Personaly, I think that there is more to the story than yoy are being
    > told or telling us. The marriage thing could be put on reivew and
    > verified. The income thing: something is flakey.

Or perhaps there are more stories that all of us don't know.



    > Advice... Use some of that 30k and get a good immigration lawyer, of
    > which I am most certainly not.
    > Scott
    > --
    > NOA1 NSC December 16th, 2002
    > Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Dshack

Matthew Udall wrote:
    > Originally posted by Dshack
    >
    >>* the Officer also said that my friend did not have sufficient
    >> funds in
    >>the bank, although she has around 30k in savings and makes well
    >>over the
    >> 125% above poverty limit.
    >
    >
    > If the officer was looking at the funds in the bank as an asset (savings
    > in a bank are not "income"), then 30K of savings by itself does "not"
    > meet the minimum income requirement. Assets are divided by a factor of
    > 5, so 30K in savings would equal 6K of income.
    >
    > M.U.
    >
    > --
    > Posted via http://britishexpats.com

But she already has a steady income well above the the 125% limit, so
shoud they focus on her additional assets alone?

Dekka's Angel

If she really did submit sufficient proof of an income above 125%, her assets should have been a non-issue if past history means anything (and it may not either in Bangkok or anywhere else for that matter; this is the second time in as many weeks that the NG has heard a story where income was scrutinized closely at the consulate even though facially it seemed enough under the guidelines; it may be that there is a new DOS policy we are all as yet unaware of.)

My smell meter says there is likely something else going on here. You, as the friend, are obviously not aware of what having not been present. Your friend may or may not be, either. An immigration attorney can help sort what the issue really is -- whether a genuine error or because of a legitimate concern on the part of the consular officer which s/he hopes to address through more for more of the "basic information" s/he asked for about the couple's status and finances.

Good luck to your friend in sorting things.

Dshack

. wrote:
    > "ScottHenshaw" wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    >
    >>It seems to be fairly common in the Philippines that people are put on
    >>Administration Review while the embassy gets what is called a,
    >>"Cernomar" which is a certifcate of no marriage. I would assume that
    >>something may be simaliar in Bangkok.
    >>Personaly, I think that there is more to the story than yoy are being
    >>told or telling us. The marriage thing could be put on reivew and
    >>verified. The income thing: something is flakey.
    >
    >
    > Or perhaps there are more stories that all of us don't know.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >>Advice... Use some of that 30k and get a good immigration lawyer, of
    >>which I am most certainly not.
    >>Scott
    >>--
    >>NOA1 NSC December 16th, 2002
    >>Posted via http://britishexpats.com
    >
    >
    >

Thanks for the feed back y'all.

As far as i can tell there is nothing more to this story than what i
have stated. I did find out the the visa was not denied, but deferred
(as was suggested in an earlier post by Dekka)

She has received a copies of, and faxed the tax info that was requested
(1040), but the support issue is the big ? now. The money that is in
savings has been accumulating for at least seven years in the same bank,
and there have been no sudden increases prior to her petition. I cannot
understand why her wages were not considered. I speculate that the
officer overlooked my friends income. We have not spoken to the fiancee
since after the interview, and I will not know the exacts until he
returns to his home.

I don't think that a lawyer is necessary just yet...


thanks again for the feed back

msrourke

It is possible her income was overlooked. The W-2s vs actual tax forms is valid. I have spent a lot of time in Thailand over the years. My job requires me to work in the Bangkok frequently virtually every office there. I really think the issue here is a reversal of normal, ie, Thai female-American male. Your friend's situation is unusual and probably raised a few eyebrows. Depending on which officer involved, it is very well that the "What the hell?" light is burning bright.

Anybody who has spent any time in Thailand will be able to tell you the general reputation, be it right or wrong, that Thai men as a whole have. I'm sure the the embassy folks have their opinion in this area and they probably can't figure why an American woman would be involved with a Thai man.

I have many (well over 30) friends over the years that have completed K-1/K-3s through Bangkok and I can't recall an instance where a female Thai was required to prove her "singleness". In fact, as I said in another thread, Thais have a natural dislike for paperwork and a good 80-85% of marriages in Thailand have no legal paperwork behind them. Like JEff pointed out, there are a gazillion Amphurs in Thailand and they all do business differently. The way Thailand works, he may be as single as a newborn or he may be running away from a major wife and a small herd of minor wives.... he's the only who knows. There is no mechanism in the Thai system to prove what he knows, because in reality, the Thai government doesn't know for sure either. Our paperwork was a real charm because her parents' births were not recorded, they have no earthly idea how old they are or when they were born (her father died some time ago and no one put an X on the calendar for that too....)

Matthew Udall

You did not mention that fact in your original posting. I usually don't bother listing assets if a petitioner meets the "income" requirement. I also supply the federal return as well as the w2's and/or 1099's.

Sounds like your friend simply needs to give them what they want.

M.U.

jeffreyhy

Matt,

With all due respect, yes he did say that she makes over 125% of the poverty level in his original post. I agree with your conclusion that she probably didn't provide satisfactory documentation of that fact.

Regards, JEff

Matthew Udall

I stand corrected. I read his posting as saying her 30K put her well over the minimum income requirement.