tracking canucks
Jun 8th 2002, 2:20 am
#31
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: tracking canucks
Yeah, the inconsistencies are sort of stupid. Kind of like, random searches
based upon every 5th person or so like they're doing now. They end up with 80
year olds and kids.
"Ken Pisichko" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> No matter what the intentions are, human beings still behave in a
capricious manner. AS a Canadian I really
> enjoy the ability to enter the USA "at will" - subject to US legislation
requirements.
>
> I follow all rules as best I can, but glitches still occur. Let me
elaborate...
>
> In April I flew from Winnipeg to Las Vegas to attend a mathematics
teachers conference. After I cleared US
> Customs at YWG I cleared the border check stuff. Then got on the SAAB
turboprop and flew to MSP. There I once
> again cleared security and went to LAV. On my return at LAV I cleared
security and flew to MSP. In
> Minneapolis i did not pass muster. It seems my plastic paper-cutting
scissors were deemed not good to have in
> carry on. same for my nail clippers. They sent me back to the airline with
3 choices: put them in checked
> baggage, put them in the mail or abandon them. After a bunch of stupidity
regarding check-in the scissors
> into my baggage, I abandoned them.
>
> Makes me wonder how I managed to clear 3 security checks and then all of a
sudden I could not pass muster.
> Capricious??? You bet.
>
> It is judgement calls like this one that I experienced that will put a
monkey wrench into security for the US
> "perimeter".
>
> No consistency is not good.
>
> Don't get me wrong, I am happy that someone wondered about me - once. But
what about the other 3 times?
>
> Ken
>
> Stuart Brook wrote:
>
> > James Donovan wrote:
> > >
> > > "BM" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected] t.net>...
> > > > So let the border be plugged.
> > >
> > > I agree. We do not complain that the border is "plugged" for international
> > > flights entering the US. Canada is a foreign country, Canadians are not
> > > Americans.
> >
> > Let's get this clear ... I don't intend to be treated like an American either. I
> > well understand that it is a privilege to be admitted to the US for any purpose,
> > working or visiting Disneyland.
> >
> > That said, it is in neither country's best economic interest to plug the border
> > by levels of scrutiny that are applied for example to flights from abroad that
> > *Still* admit terrorists and criminals into the US. Documenting the entries
> > doesn't solve the problem.
> >
> > Terrorists and criminals will still find ways to enter the US as they do now with
> > fake IDs etc. Does documenting entry and exit solve that ? Nope.
> >
> > Stuart
based upon every 5th person or so like they're doing now. They end up with 80
year olds and kids.
"Ken Pisichko" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> No matter what the intentions are, human beings still behave in a
capricious manner. AS a Canadian I really
> enjoy the ability to enter the USA "at will" - subject to US legislation
requirements.
>
> I follow all rules as best I can, but glitches still occur. Let me
elaborate...
>
> In April I flew from Winnipeg to Las Vegas to attend a mathematics
teachers conference. After I cleared US
> Customs at YWG I cleared the border check stuff. Then got on the SAAB
turboprop and flew to MSP. There I once
> again cleared security and went to LAV. On my return at LAV I cleared
security and flew to MSP. In
> Minneapolis i did not pass muster. It seems my plastic paper-cutting
scissors were deemed not good to have in
> carry on. same for my nail clippers. They sent me back to the airline with
3 choices: put them in checked
> baggage, put them in the mail or abandon them. After a bunch of stupidity
regarding check-in the scissors
> into my baggage, I abandoned them.
>
> Makes me wonder how I managed to clear 3 security checks and then all of a
sudden I could not pass muster.
> Capricious??? You bet.
>
> It is judgement calls like this one that I experienced that will put a
monkey wrench into security for the US
> "perimeter".
>
> No consistency is not good.
>
> Don't get me wrong, I am happy that someone wondered about me - once. But
what about the other 3 times?
>
> Ken
>
> Stuart Brook wrote:
>
> > James Donovan wrote:
> > >
> > > "BM" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected] t.net>...
> > > > So let the border be plugged.
> > >
> > > I agree. We do not complain that the border is "plugged" for international
> > > flights entering the US. Canada is a foreign country, Canadians are not
> > > Americans.
> >
> > Let's get this clear ... I don't intend to be treated like an American either. I
> > well understand that it is a privilege to be admitted to the US for any purpose,
> > working or visiting Disneyland.
> >
> > That said, it is in neither country's best economic interest to plug the border
> > by levels of scrutiny that are applied for example to flights from abroad that
> > *Still* admit terrorists and criminals into the US. Documenting the entries
> > doesn't solve the problem.
> >
> > Terrorists and criminals will still find ways to enter the US as they do now with
> > fake IDs etc. Does documenting entry and exit solve that ? Nope.
> >
> > Stuart
Jun 8th 2002, 3:20 am
#32
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: tracking canucks
> "AftonOkla" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > >This is a loophole we need to close
> > >
> > > Why? What business is it of anybody where one travels and for how long
he
> > > stays? I prefer freedom.
> > >
Every soverign nation has the right to control it's borders. That's why.
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > >This is a loophole we need to close
> > >
> > > Why? What business is it of anybody where one travels and for how long
he
> > > stays? I prefer freedom.
> > >
Every soverign nation has the right to control it's borders. That's why.
Jun 8th 2002, 4:20 am
#33
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: tracking canucks
BM wrote:
>
> I don't think it being full proof is MY point. It might be the US government's
> point though. Just seems to me that when the United States Government wants to make
> a rule regarding Immigration, a lot of USC's try to put an end to it, which is
> perfectly their RIGHT as they're USC's. If Aliens try to influence what the United
> States Government ie. the People are doing, then that is wrong. What right does an
> Alien have to attempt to put an end to what the American government does?
> Absolutely none, but you know what is sad is that there are Lobbiest that work for
> foreign powers and that do influence the United States. It's totally ridiculous.
Whoa BM. The only real difference between a foreign power attempting to influence
another country and its own citizens is that *in theory*, one doesn't have to pay any
attention to the foreign power. On the other foot, politicians don't pay any
attention to their own constituents either which to me is far more galling.
It's not unreasonable for you to protest if your neighbour wants to put up a cell
phone tower in his yard even if it's legal for him to do so. It's not unreasonable
for you to attempt to influence him to change his mind, because let's face it, the
tower is a damned ugly thing. On the other hand if he goes ahead and does it anyway,
there's nothing you can do about it, even though it impacts you.
So it is with international relations. It's not unreasonable to try to persuade your
neighbour not to count the toes of all the people who cross the border, but if they
want to, they will ... it's their country. You don't have to like it. The US has been
trying to influence other countries for decades, but they don't seem to be too happy
when the tides are turned.
>
> I don't think it being full proof is MY point. It might be the US government's
> point though. Just seems to me that when the United States Government wants to make
> a rule regarding Immigration, a lot of USC's try to put an end to it, which is
> perfectly their RIGHT as they're USC's. If Aliens try to influence what the United
> States Government ie. the People are doing, then that is wrong. What right does an
> Alien have to attempt to put an end to what the American government does?
> Absolutely none, but you know what is sad is that there are Lobbiest that work for
> foreign powers and that do influence the United States. It's totally ridiculous.
Whoa BM. The only real difference between a foreign power attempting to influence
another country and its own citizens is that *in theory*, one doesn't have to pay any
attention to the foreign power. On the other foot, politicians don't pay any
attention to their own constituents either which to me is far more galling.
It's not unreasonable for you to protest if your neighbour wants to put up a cell
phone tower in his yard even if it's legal for him to do so. It's not unreasonable
for you to attempt to influence him to change his mind, because let's face it, the
tower is a damned ugly thing. On the other hand if he goes ahead and does it anyway,
there's nothing you can do about it, even though it impacts you.
So it is with international relations. It's not unreasonable to try to persuade your
neighbour not to count the toes of all the people who cross the border, but if they
want to, they will ... it's their country. You don't have to like it. The US has been
trying to influence other countries for decades, but they don't seem to be too happy
when the tides are turned.
Jun 8th 2002, 4:20 am
#34
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: tracking canucks
I wonder if you realize that the USA tries to influence foreign nations to do things
that are in the interest of the USA rather than in the interest of another nation?
That is one of the jobs of a US Embassy in another country - the Ambassador tries to
influence the nation's policy to the benefit of the USA and USCs resident in that
sovereign country.
Hummmm. Cannot have it both ways can you??
Ken
BM wrote:
> I don't think it being full proof is MY point. It might be the US government's
> point though. Just seems to me that when the United States Government wants to make
> a rule regarding Immigration, a lot of USC's try to put an end to it, which is
> perfectly their RIGHT as they're USC's. If Aliens try to influence what the United
> States Government ie. the People are doing, then that is wrong. What right does an
> Alien have to attempt to put an end to what the American government does?
> Absolutely none, but you know what is sad is that there are Lobbiest that work for
> foreign powers and that do influence the United States. It's totally ridiculous.
>
> "Ken Pisichko" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Ah yes. I remember two week ends ago when I was speaking with 3 fishermen
> from
> > Minneapolis at the Canadian side of the Pembina-Emerson border crossing.
> >
> > One of their buddies was not allowed into Canada by Canada
> Customs/Immigration
> > because of some US felony conviction in the fellow's past.
> >
> > It is quite OK for the fellow to be a taxpayer and citizen in Minneapolis
> with
> > a family. Unfortunately, his past indiscretion did not sit well outside of
> the
> > USA. The same will be true of many aliens when they arrive at the US
> border -
> > they will be subject to US legislation and if they are deemed as unfit for entry
> > they will NOT be let in. That is how the system is supposed to work!
> >
> > No problem with that is there?
> >
> > The difficulty (for the US taxpayer) is that the fingerprinting will be
> > capricious because it will be at the whim of human beings - just like the
> 9-11
> > terrorist entries into the USA occurred at the whim of US citizens who
> were/are
> > responsible for applying US legislation (aka INS officials).
> >
> > If the fingerprinting would do the job then by all means.....
> >
> > Unfortunately this fingerprinting idea is another feel good idea that is
> not
> > fool proof. The Canadian "gun control" legislation is a typical example of
> such
> > feel good government nonsense that impales the federal treasury and does
> not
> > produce sought-after results.
> >
> > I sure hope the US efforts work, but unfortunately the Canadian-US border
> is
> > too transparent for those who want to cross without being noticed. After
> all,
> > neither country has, nor can afford, a STAZI type of border/security
> police
> > system.
> >
> > Ken BM wrote:
> >
> > > It's kinda like people from certain countries complaining about the new
> > > fingerprinting and photographing of certain nationalities. If you don't like it
> > > ie, if your' Canadian and you don't like being tracked, DON't
> COME
> > > HERE!
> > >
> > > "AftonOkla" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > >This is a loophole we need to close
> > > >
> > > > Why? What business is it of anybody where one travels and for how long
> he
> > > > stays? I prefer freedom.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
that are in the interest of the USA rather than in the interest of another nation?
That is one of the jobs of a US Embassy in another country - the Ambassador tries to
influence the nation's policy to the benefit of the USA and USCs resident in that
sovereign country.
Hummmm. Cannot have it both ways can you??
Ken
BM wrote:
> I don't think it being full proof is MY point. It might be the US government's
> point though. Just seems to me that when the United States Government wants to make
> a rule regarding Immigration, a lot of USC's try to put an end to it, which is
> perfectly their RIGHT as they're USC's. If Aliens try to influence what the United
> States Government ie. the People are doing, then that is wrong. What right does an
> Alien have to attempt to put an end to what the American government does?
> Absolutely none, but you know what is sad is that there are Lobbiest that work for
> foreign powers and that do influence the United States. It's totally ridiculous.
>
> "Ken Pisichko" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Ah yes. I remember two week ends ago when I was speaking with 3 fishermen
> from
> > Minneapolis at the Canadian side of the Pembina-Emerson border crossing.
> >
> > One of their buddies was not allowed into Canada by Canada
> Customs/Immigration
> > because of some US felony conviction in the fellow's past.
> >
> > It is quite OK for the fellow to be a taxpayer and citizen in Minneapolis
> with
> > a family. Unfortunately, his past indiscretion did not sit well outside of
> the
> > USA. The same will be true of many aliens when they arrive at the US
> border -
> > they will be subject to US legislation and if they are deemed as unfit for entry
> > they will NOT be let in. That is how the system is supposed to work!
> >
> > No problem with that is there?
> >
> > The difficulty (for the US taxpayer) is that the fingerprinting will be
> > capricious because it will be at the whim of human beings - just like the
> 9-11
> > terrorist entries into the USA occurred at the whim of US citizens who
> were/are
> > responsible for applying US legislation (aka INS officials).
> >
> > If the fingerprinting would do the job then by all means.....
> >
> > Unfortunately this fingerprinting idea is another feel good idea that is
> not
> > fool proof. The Canadian "gun control" legislation is a typical example of
> such
> > feel good government nonsense that impales the federal treasury and does
> not
> > produce sought-after results.
> >
> > I sure hope the US efforts work, but unfortunately the Canadian-US border
> is
> > too transparent for those who want to cross without being noticed. After
> all,
> > neither country has, nor can afford, a STAZI type of border/security
> police
> > system.
> >
> > Ken BM wrote:
> >
> > > It's kinda like people from certain countries complaining about the new
> > > fingerprinting and photographing of certain nationalities. If you don't like it
> > > ie, if your' Canadian and you don't like being tracked, DON't
> COME
> > > HERE!
> > >
> > > "AftonOkla" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > >This is a loophole we need to close
> > > >
> > > > Why? What business is it of anybody where one travels and for how long
> he
> > > > stays? I prefer freedom.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
Jun 8th 2002, 4:20 am
#35
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: tracking canucks
BM wrote:
> Every soverign nation has the right to control it's borders. That's why.
This is precisely why not everyone follows what the US INS does. In some countries
people can enter while those same people would be forbidden from entering the USA.
Similarly, there are real strange happenings with the USA. Fer instance...
As a canadian it is perfectly legal for me to trade with communist block countries -
like cuba for instance - but if entering the USA I could be arrested for breaking a
US law. Strange?? A Canadian businessman that did such a transaction (with Cuba) was
convicted in the USA by the US legal system.
Hummmmm. Oh what a complex web is woven....
Ken
> Every soverign nation has the right to control it's borders. That's why.
This is precisely why not everyone follows what the US INS does. In some countries
people can enter while those same people would be forbidden from entering the USA.
Similarly, there are real strange happenings with the USA. Fer instance...
As a canadian it is perfectly legal for me to trade with communist block countries -
like cuba for instance - but if entering the USA I could be arrested for breaking a
US law. Strange?? A Canadian businessman that did such a transaction (with Cuba) was
convicted in the USA by the US legal system.
Hummmmm. Oh what a complex web is woven....
Ken
Jun 8th 2002, 10:20 am
#36
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: tracking canucks
Some came thru Miami
"BM" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:vZcM8.15010$pw3.203@sccrnsc03...
> No. they could have came thru the SW border. That's why they both need to be more
> tightly controlled.
>
> "L D Jones" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > Ken Pisichko wrote:
> > >
> > > Are you SURE that the "terrorists" came into the USA via Canada?
Where,
> pray tell is this information
> > > available for casual observation? I have noticed retractions by US
media
> and "other folks jumping on this
> > > bandwagon.
> >
> > i doubt anyone knows how the 'terrorists' came into the US
"BM" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:vZcM8.15010$pw3.203@sccrnsc03...
> No. they could have came thru the SW border. That's why they both need to be more
> tightly controlled.
>
> "L D Jones" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > Ken Pisichko wrote:
> > >
> > > Are you SURE that the "terrorists" came into the USA via Canada?
Where,
> pray tell is this information
> > > available for casual observation? I have noticed retractions by US
media
> and "other folks jumping on this
> > > bandwagon.
> >
> > i doubt anyone knows how the 'terrorists' came into the US
Jun 8th 2002, 6:20 pm
#37
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: tracking canucks
Stuart Brook <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:<[email protected] da.ca>...
> That said, it is in neither country's best economic interest to plug the border by
> levels of scrutiny that are applied for example to flights from abroad that *Still*
> admit terrorists and criminals into the US. Documenting the entries doesn't solve
> the problem.
US Domestic flights are now being subject to the same scrutiny as international
flights. I believe, that in light of this, the land borders between Canada and Mexico
and the US should all be under greater scrutiny. There is no emergency requiring
Canadians to come across to the US. Canadians can wait to be inspected and admitted
to our country.
US Citizens are inspected and searched for domestic flights. Why can't canadians who
drive across be subject to the same scrutiny? We need to stop ALL possible avenues
for terrorists.
news:<[email protected] da.ca>...
> That said, it is in neither country's best economic interest to plug the border by
> levels of scrutiny that are applied for example to flights from abroad that *Still*
> admit terrorists and criminals into the US. Documenting the entries doesn't solve
> the problem.
US Domestic flights are now being subject to the same scrutiny as international
flights. I believe, that in light of this, the land borders between Canada and Mexico
and the US should all be under greater scrutiny. There is no emergency requiring
Canadians to come across to the US. Canadians can wait to be inspected and admitted
to our country.
US Citizens are inspected and searched for domestic flights. Why can't canadians who
drive across be subject to the same scrutiny? We need to stop ALL possible avenues
for terrorists.
Jun 8th 2002, 8:20 pm
#38
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: tracking canucks
James Donovan wrote:
> I believe, that in light of this, the land borders between Canada and Mexico and
> the US should all be under greater scrutiny. There is no emergency requiring
> Canadians to come across to the US. Canadians can wait to be inspected and
> admitted to our country.
>
This was happening right after 9-11. Trucks had to wait a long time. I was told to
drive into a locked garage and to give the inspectors my keys. No problem. The fellow
asking me the questions kept repeating the questions in various different versions.
As I had nothing to hide I kept giving the same answer. After 10 minute of searching
they told me that I could go.
I expressed thanks, but stated I could not go. The (up to then) terse inspector asked
why not. When i stated "You have my keys" he broke up laughing.
We both smiled and I expressed thanks for checking and how hard their job was.
However, I also noted that "some crazy" that morning slit the throat of Greyhound bus
driver in TN and two folks were killed.
I lift him with the thought that even US citizens can act in terrorist ways
within the USA.
>
> US Citizens are inspected and searched for domestic flights. Why can't canadians
> who drive across be subject to the same scrutiny? We need to stop ALL possible
> avenues for terrorists.
They stopped checking each and every vehicle a month or so after my "thorough
search". Later they just did a perfunctory inspection of the trunk or van interior.
Last time they almost forgot to ask me what country I was a citizen of. Mind you, on
that return I was checked thoroughly by the Canadian Customs types and for the first
time in all my years crossing the US-Canada border I was asked by Canada Customs to
produce picture ID. That was the same trip where they detained the US fishermen and
would not let one of them come into Canada.
Ken
> I believe, that in light of this, the land borders between Canada and Mexico and
> the US should all be under greater scrutiny. There is no emergency requiring
> Canadians to come across to the US. Canadians can wait to be inspected and
> admitted to our country.
>
This was happening right after 9-11. Trucks had to wait a long time. I was told to
drive into a locked garage and to give the inspectors my keys. No problem. The fellow
asking me the questions kept repeating the questions in various different versions.
As I had nothing to hide I kept giving the same answer. After 10 minute of searching
they told me that I could go.
I expressed thanks, but stated I could not go. The (up to then) terse inspector asked
why not. When i stated "You have my keys" he broke up laughing.
We both smiled and I expressed thanks for checking and how hard their job was.
However, I also noted that "some crazy" that morning slit the throat of Greyhound bus
driver in TN and two folks were killed.
I lift him with the thought that even US citizens can act in terrorist ways
within the USA.
>
> US Citizens are inspected and searched for domestic flights. Why can't canadians
> who drive across be subject to the same scrutiny? We need to stop ALL possible
> avenues for terrorists.
They stopped checking each and every vehicle a month or so after my "thorough
search". Later they just did a perfunctory inspection of the trunk or van interior.
Last time they almost forgot to ask me what country I was a citizen of. Mind you, on
that return I was checked thoroughly by the Canadian Customs types and for the first
time in all my years crossing the US-Canada border I was asked by Canada Customs to
produce picture ID. That was the same trip where they detained the US fishermen and
would not let one of them come into Canada.
Ken
Jun 8th 2002, 11:16 pm
#39
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: tracking canucks
>This "honor system" has been responsible for illegal aliens crossing the border. We
>need to honor our own country only and start tracking entries and exits.
They check your citizenship and ID and that is good enough. If they want to track
entry and exit for non citizens of either country, that is fine too but as a citizen
of the USA it is not anybodies business if I go to Canada or how long I stay there.
>need to honor our own country only and start tracking entries and exits.
They check your citizenship and ID and that is good enough. If they want to track
entry and exit for non citizens of either country, that is fine too but as a citizen
of the USA it is not anybodies business if I go to Canada or how long I stay there.
Jun 8th 2002, 11:20 pm
#40
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: tracking canucks
James Donovan wrote:
> US Citizens are inspected and searched for domestic flights. Why can't canadians
> who drive across be subject to the same scrutiny? We need to stop ALL possible
> avenues for terrorists.
You make it sound like Canadians crossing the border are subject to no inspection
whatsoever. That has never been the case. In the last few years, even before Sep. 11,
the documentation requirement has been more rigidly enforced, although not
consistently, and one still meets, even today, "Citizenship?" "Canadian" "OK" ... The
next car gets the third degree, and customs stripped.
I think the inconsistency of inspection is the problem. I certainly agree that being
required to consistently produce id is not unreasonable. At the same time there is
rarely justification for the 10 minute intense grilling.
Stuart
> US Citizens are inspected and searched for domestic flights. Why can't canadians
> who drive across be subject to the same scrutiny? We need to stop ALL possible
> avenues for terrorists.
You make it sound like Canadians crossing the border are subject to no inspection
whatsoever. That has never been the case. In the last few years, even before Sep. 11,
the documentation requirement has been more rigidly enforced, although not
consistently, and one still meets, even today, "Citizenship?" "Canadian" "OK" ... The
next car gets the third degree, and customs stripped.
I think the inconsistency of inspection is the problem. I certainly agree that being
required to consistently produce id is not unreasonable. At the same time there is
rarely justification for the 10 minute intense grilling.
Stuart
Jun 8th 2002, 11:39 pm
#41
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: tracking canucks
>It is the business of our US national security. A terrorist can easily hide out in
>Canada and come to the US.
>Canadians are NOT US citizens. They are visitors like everyone else.
Canadians are not terrorist either. They may look a bit scary at times but they are
really nice folks if you get to know them. And they are not visitors like everybody
else- which is why they do not need visas. They are every bit as American as you are.
>Canada and come to the US.
>Canadians are NOT US citizens. They are visitors like everyone else.
Canadians are not terrorist either. They may look a bit scary at times but they are
really nice folks if you get to know them. And they are not visitors like everybody
else- which is why they do not need visas. They are every bit as American as you are.
Jun 8th 2002, 11:42 pm
#42
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: tracking canucks
>But you are missing my point. It is so easy to cross the border from Canada,
>citizen or not. We NEED to check people coming into our country so that at least we
>reduce the possibility of a terrorist sneaking in via Canada.
If a terrorist wants in he will get in. He can just as easily sneak in from Mexico.
Hell, about 6 million Mexicans have managed to sneak in so what are his chances of
getting caught? Also there are many crossings from Canada to the USA that are
completely open and people in those rural areas cross back and forth all the time.
>citizen or not. We NEED to check people coming into our country so that at least we
>reduce the possibility of a terrorist sneaking in via Canada.
If a terrorist wants in he will get in. He can just as easily sneak in from Mexico.
Hell, about 6 million Mexicans have managed to sneak in so what are his chances of
getting caught? Also there are many crossings from Canada to the USA that are
completely open and people in those rural areas cross back and forth all the time.
Jun 9th 2002, 12:20 am
#43
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: tracking canucks
AftonOkla wrote:
> >This "honor system" has been responsible for illegal aliens crossing the border.
> >We need to honor our own country only and start tracking entries and exits.
>
> They check your citizenship and ID and that is good enough. If they want to track
> entry and exit for non citizens of either country, that is fine too but as a
> citizen of the USA it is not anybodies business if I go to Canada or how long I
> stay there.
While that may be the sentiment of US citizens, this SAME tracking system of aliens
in the USA does have a large support base within the USA.
If it is for the good of the USA, why pray tell, cannot it ALSO be for the good of
Canada, or England, or.... Just think of how many STAZI or KGB types of
alien-tracking policeniks it will keep employed in EACH country implementing this
system. And in each country (including the USA) that means the taxpayer pays - if
that is an issue with taxpayers concerned with the efficacy of government actions
and spending.
Ken
> >This "honor system" has been responsible for illegal aliens crossing the border.
> >We need to honor our own country only and start tracking entries and exits.
>
> They check your citizenship and ID and that is good enough. If they want to track
> entry and exit for non citizens of either country, that is fine too but as a
> citizen of the USA it is not anybodies business if I go to Canada or how long I
> stay there.
While that may be the sentiment of US citizens, this SAME tracking system of aliens
in the USA does have a large support base within the USA.
If it is for the good of the USA, why pray tell, cannot it ALSO be for the good of
Canada, or England, or.... Just think of how many STAZI or KGB types of
alien-tracking policeniks it will keep employed in EACH country implementing this
system. And in each country (including the USA) that means the taxpayer pays - if
that is an issue with taxpayers concerned with the efficacy of government actions
and spending.
Ken
Jun 9th 2002, 1:20 am
#44
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: tracking canucks
Ken Pisichko wrote:
>
> AftonOkla wrote:
>
> > >This "honor system" has been responsible for illegal aliens crossing the border.
> > >We need to honor our own country only and start tracking entries and exits.
> >
> > They check your citizenship and ID and that is good enough. If they want to track
> > entry and exit for non citizens of either country, that is fine too but as a
> > citizen of the USA it is not anybodies business if I go to Canada or how long I
> > stay there.
>
> While that may be the sentiment of US citizens, this SAME tracking system of aliens
> in the USA does have a large support base within the USA.
>
> If it is for the good of the USA, why pray tell, cannot it ALSO be for the good of
> Canada, or England, or.... Just think of how many STAZI or KGB types of
> alien-tracking policeniks it will keep employed in EACH country implementing this
> system. And in each country (including the USA) that means the taxpayer pays - if
> that is an issue with taxpayers concerned with the efficacy of government actions
> and spending.
>
> Ken
Exactly ... it's virtually impossible to keep track of entrances and exits even with
a computerized system. Hell, even computer companies can't keep track of who's in
their buildings accurately with card key systems!
Then comes the business of "the system goofs" ... You were still in the USA on
July 1, our computer says so. Here's a Visa receipt I signed in Toronto on July
1, how could I be in the US ? and on and on and on. These systems are all "feel
good" systems.
>
> AftonOkla wrote:
>
> > >This "honor system" has been responsible for illegal aliens crossing the border.
> > >We need to honor our own country only and start tracking entries and exits.
> >
> > They check your citizenship and ID and that is good enough. If they want to track
> > entry and exit for non citizens of either country, that is fine too but as a
> > citizen of the USA it is not anybodies business if I go to Canada or how long I
> > stay there.
>
> While that may be the sentiment of US citizens, this SAME tracking system of aliens
> in the USA does have a large support base within the USA.
>
> If it is for the good of the USA, why pray tell, cannot it ALSO be for the good of
> Canada, or England, or.... Just think of how many STAZI or KGB types of
> alien-tracking policeniks it will keep employed in EACH country implementing this
> system. And in each country (including the USA) that means the taxpayer pays - if
> that is an issue with taxpayers concerned with the efficacy of government actions
> and spending.
>
> Ken
Exactly ... it's virtually impossible to keep track of entrances and exits even with
a computerized system. Hell, even computer companies can't keep track of who's in
their buildings accurately with card key systems!
Then comes the business of "the system goofs" ... You were still in the USA on
July 1, our computer says so. Here's a Visa receipt I signed in Toronto on July
1, how could I be in the US ? and on and on and on. These systems are all "feel
good" systems.
Jun 9th 2002, 1:20 am
#45
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: tracking canucks
Ken Pisichko <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> Are you SURE that the "terrorists" came into the USA via Canada? Where, pray tell
> is this information available for casual observation? I have noticed retractions by
> US media and "other folks jumping on this bandwagon.
Please note that I never said that I am sure they entered through Canada. What I am
saying is that Canada is one possible entry point. So is Mexico. We need to secure
both borders.
>
> Besides, is not the US Border Patrol/ Customs/ INS responsible for who is allowed
> into the USA?
Yes, I never said otherwise.
> I understand that the Canadian government is responsible for who Canada lets
> into their "perimeter". Why should Canada worry about another country's
> immigration policy?
I never said tha tthey should.
news:<[email protected]>...
> Are you SURE that the "terrorists" came into the USA via Canada? Where, pray tell
> is this information available for casual observation? I have noticed retractions by
> US media and "other folks jumping on this bandwagon.
Please note that I never said that I am sure they entered through Canada. What I am
saying is that Canada is one possible entry point. So is Mexico. We need to secure
both borders.
>
> Besides, is not the US Border Patrol/ Customs/ INS responsible for who is allowed
> into the USA?
Yes, I never said otherwise.
> I understand that the Canadian government is responsible for who Canada lets
> into their "perimeter". Why should Canada worry about another country's
> immigration policy?
I never said tha tthey should.