crg

Whenever there is an arranged quid pro quo (something for something) then it's no longer bona fide visiting and is work. This is true even if no cash changes hands. It could be expenses, lodging, food or anything of value. Someone may try to get you to frame it in a certain light, but that's easy for them because they don't have to face any potential consequences. Incidentally spending time with kids is one thing, but covering for a parent who is working is another thing altogether.

Pulaski

As I said already, I did pretty much the same thing with my mother, and it would never in a million years occur to me that anyone would try to twist the facts, that my mother was coming to spend time with her grand daughter, into some sort of tax and/or immigration scam!

The only thing GeoffM is guilty of is over-thinking the implications of a relative coming to stay, but you seem to want to twist the visit of Geoff's niece into the worst possible light and for who knows what reason? The CBP and INS don't care one jot about relatives visiting or what they do within the privacy of their own home, so long as the visitor leaves within the validity of their visa and I94. Those agencies have bigger fish to fry and there is realistically no prospect of them (i) investigating the circumstances of a young visitor to the US staying with her aunt and uncle, and even if they did investigate, of (ii) accumulating enough evidence to be given the OK to take to court.

Your arguments might belong in a lecture room at a law school, in a discussion of what is and is not within the law, but they have no relevance in the real world.

scrubbedexpat099

I always say the nice thing about being a GrandParent, or Great GrandParent, is that you get to give them back.

Having said that my GrandMother did not, well for the first 6 months of my life, but despite being Welsh she did not need a visa.

Quite common in some cultures to bring a relative over so the wife can go back to work, or at least try to, often they seek to 'visit'.

If one Consulate has heard it all, Manilla would be up there.

Rete

I have to agree 110% with Pulaski on this. I haven't a clue through all the years of your participation in these forums as to what your status is, i.e. immigration attorney, former or current USCIS employee or an agent with ICE or an employee with a US Consulate.

The one and only reason that Geoff's scenario can be considered a working arrangement is because he originally posted it in the form of an announcement that he and his wife were considering "hiring" her niece to be caretaker of their two children for a few weeks over the summer holiday. When, in fact, he was not going to be employing her to be a childcare worker in his home since a summer holiday from school is 6 to 8 weeks in length and she would only be visiting the US for 2 to 4 weeks time which would be 1/2 or less of summer vacation for the children. Couple that with the facts that later emerged that he is a work at home parent and will be inside the home and the controlling adult of the two children and the niece would be there as a visitor who is spending time with her cousins and sightseeing in a country she has never been to before.

When she is at the POE, she needs only to answer the questions as asked. Where are you going? To visit the US and my aunt and her family. Where will you be staying? At my aunt's home for most of the time with a few away from home trips to see other areas of the country.

A discussion of whether or not she will be employed will not rear its head nor should it. And if, for whatever reason or suspicions it does, she needs only speak truthfully. No I'm not going to be employed. I'm here to visit family and sightsee.

As for your statement that providing her with food, housing and perhaps a car to drive can be considered remuneration is so far off base. Perhaps you have never had people come to visit and stay at your home. Or if you have, it would appear that you expect them to provide their own food and to leave you a check for allowing them to use your home as a base instead of a hotel.

There is no law that I've ever heard of either here in these forums or in my three years of US immigration classes at a NYC university that states that a visitor cannot fully engage with family they are visiting for fear of ICE breaking down the door and dragging them off in handcuffs for violation of said law.

Rete

Always knew you were somewhat backward. The correct saying is "Grandchildren are great. You can enjoy them, spoil them, and when they are becoming PITAs given them back."

scrubbedexpat099

Unless I have missed it seems she also needs a visa.

Rete

That has been established. Her country does not enjoy the privilege of the VWP.

Englishmum

Yep. After living in south east Asia and having many conversations with Filipinas it does seem to be a dream for many of them to find a way to move to a western country, especially the USA (due to old colonial links).

My Scottish friends lived in a very nice part of Makati, Manila (near the polo club) and I visited half a dozen times and had a lovely beach holiday, although my spouse had his wallet stolen. It is a beautiful country, but so impoverished.

Pulaski perhaps doesn’t realise that even graduates (teachers, nurses, business graduates) take up jobs as domestic workers or on the shop floor in retail in S.E.Asia or the Middle East as it pays more than back home in the Philippines - and they are fully expected to remit money home to support the extended family. There is a huge population in the Philippines and nowhere near enough jobs - and no social security or safety net.

Many Filipinas hope that if they can find a way to move to a western country they can avoid returning to their poverty stricken home country. The US Embassy consular official know all about this....they are fully aware that some (not all) Filipinos are known to disappear into the black economy as soon as they set foot in the States, and why they are so reluctant to issue visas, especially to young people who are keen to travel, seek their fortune and much less likely to return home. Not for a moment am I suggesting that the O/P’s niece would do this, but it’s the consular official at the Embassy who will be considering whether or not to issue a visa.

Grandparents naturally will have a better chance, they’re not going to be looking for a job in the USA and more likely to return home where they are settled and most likely have the younger generation of family members to support them.

GeoffM

Thanks everyone. I realise there is suspicion of nefarious goals and you have only my word that there are no such goals. Just a holiday to spend time with her cousins with no intention of staying.

crg

Exactly. It's clear what the real intent of this proposed "visit" is. Since the question was framed as an employment arrangement, that is likely what it is.

If the original question was: "My favorite niece wants to come visit for the summer. Would it be a problem for her immigration status if she were to spend time with the kids when I'm not there? Any caring for the kids would be incidental to a pleasure trip". There would be no issue.

It's not off base and the form of remuneration doesn't matter. It's whether or not there is an arrangement for something to be provided for some sort of service/benefit to the provider (quid pro quo). Again, simply based on the way this question was initially brought up, it's likely to be outside the scope of what is permitted as a visitor.

According to the government, remuneration is
anything of value given in exchange for labor or services,
including food and lodging.

Separate out the non-immediate family relationship (niece) because legally it's not relevant. There is nothing in the INA , CFR, or FAM that differentiates a niece from any other person. The only difference with the family aspect is the likelihood of a problem and that it may actually be a pleasure visit.

I find this forum to be interesting and informative. It helps people round out, sharpen and maintain an understanding of complex US immigration laws. However, I don't like it when people try to tweak the true facts of the poster's honest question into a way to finagle the system. That's an integrity issue and makes this place look bad.

scrubbedexpat099

I for one will be interested to see how it pans out, please keep us updated.

GeoffM

Not necessarily. It was framed as an employment question because that was what I thought it needed to be. As with many threads, a bit more questioning exposes facets that the OP (me) did not realise/consider. Indeed, it's been most useful to see both viewpoints as - for me - it's helped me better understand the boundary between visiting and working. With prompting I have explained the scenario: all the information provided should be considered, not just the opening statement.

Right now I have one "no", one skeptic, and a couple of "no problems" so it's hard to know what to do!

GeoffM

Boiler, you can turn off your skepticism meter - she doesn't want to come! As I think I mentioned earlier, we wanted to know if it was possible before broaching the idea to her. Having broached it, seems she is settled in a new job and with boyfriend so "no thanks"

The information is still useful and helpful, so thanks again.

scrubbedexpat099

There is always the exception that proves the rule.