Maximus12

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am a US Permanent Resident.

I have been out of the country for nearly 2 years. Earlier this year, I had an interview for the SB-1 visabut was rejected. I wasn't given a reason, they didn't even want to see any proof of my ties to the US. They didn't take my green card off me. I own my home in the US. I file and pay my taxes every year, I have bank accounts and a small business there (of which my brother is running). I also still have my drivers license, bank accounts, credit cards, and US retirement plan.

Based on the information I have provided above. My questions are:

1) What is my legal status in the US as of now? Am I still considered a PR?
2) Who who can take PR status away from me?
3) Can "they" take my PR status away from me even if I am overseas. If so then how does that happen? Or. Will this only be triggered if I decide to re-enter the US at the POE at which point i will have to see an Immigration Judge?
4) If I were not to re-enter the US would I still be considered a PR at infinitum?
5) If I were to re-enter the US does the fact that I was rejected for the SB-1 visa show up on the CBP screen?

I have my US small business over there and some assets too so I have to consider these too. In other words, I don't want to trigger any immigration event that might effect these.

I appreciate any advice you could give me.

Thanks

Pulaski

1) You're still a PR/ Yes
2) An immigration court
3) I don't think so. When you enter the US you may be referred to an immigration court
4) I think so, but that is a moot point as you would probably be stripped of your PR status when you attempted to return to the US, and in any case you have to be in the US to renew your green card.
5) Yes, the CBP at the port of entry should be able to see your entire immigration and visa history.

All that said, you are a perfect example of someone who needs the counsel of an experienced immigration attorney - specifically one who has experience of "abandonment" cases. You should consult with such a lawyer before you try to enter the US, and personally I would recommend finding one near your expected port of entry, or choosing a port of entry close to your lawyer in the event that you are referred to the immigration court.

ian-mstm

These two statements may be in conflict. Even if your green card has not expired, it's entirely possible that you have effectively abandoned your status.


To be successful, you generally need to demonstrate two things: 1) that you always intended to return to the US; and 2) that your time outside the US was both unavoidable and completely out of your control.


I suspect that the officer believed one or other of the two points noted above.


I believe so, yes - but it may be difficult to demonstrate.


A US immigration judge can... but you can also do it yourself if you remain outside the US for too long. The phrase "too long" is not well defined.


Possibly.


They "do it". There is no obligation to inform you.


How do you plan to get to the US? Your green card is valid as a travel document only for 1 year, so you don't currently have a valid travel document. That said, if you have ever had claim to PR status, you have a right to a hearing in front of an immigration judge. While a CBP officer doesn't have the authority to remove your status, he can put you in detention until a hearing before an immigration judge.


Maybe, but to what end? If you're not coming back to the US, your status in the US is pretty much irrelevant.


There's really no way to know for sure, so you must assume that yes, it will show up.


How did you get the green card in the first place? You could redo the process.

Our friend Pulaski is correct - you really need counsel from an immigration attorney who has specific experience in abandonment cases.

Ian

Maximus12

Thank you for your response.

So I could effectively maintain my PR status if I stay outside the US. If my green card were to expire in 2028 I would be considered a PR until then. What happens after the green card expires? Would I still be considered a PR if I were not to renew my Green Card?

Also, to understand correctly, the only way I would be able to stand in front of an immigration judge was if I were to travel back to the US because I was flagged by the CBP? Am I correct in saying that immigration can't call me if I'm not in the US as I'm not in the country.

What's more important to me is to maintain my PR status and not so much being in the country. Ofcourse I would like to be back in the US but it is not imperative as long as I can maintain my PR status legally for the foreseeable future while I sort out my family business affairs.

Pulaski

Not really, you are skating on thin ice. Permanent residence means you are living in the US, so maintaining it while not in the US is always tricky. The longer you stay out of the US the harder it will be when you end up in the immigration court.

Yes
You are trying to have your cake and eat it. If you want to continue to be a PR then you need to spend most of your time in the US, then if you need to return to your home country for 2-3 months each year you'll have no problem, but trying to maintain PR status while overseas indefinitely isn't going to work.

You should look to accumulate the required time in the US to obtain US citizenship, then you can spend as long as you like overseas, but having spent two years outside the US that is going to take a minimum of 5 years after you return to the US.

Maximus12

Thank you.

How isn't it going to work?

If I remain outside the US and it requires an Immigration Judge to legally take away my PR then how can I lose the PR if I just stay out if the country and don't attempt to re-enter.

By what mechanism can a US Immigration Judge rule that I have abandoned my PR if in fact I don't go back into the country.

ian-mstm

While you're outside the US, your PR status from the US' point of view is pretty much meaningless. That status really only has meaning when you actually reside in the US.


Yes - but why? To what end? At this point, you have no idea whether or not you still have PR status... and the only way you're going to know for sure is if you get before a US immigration judge who will have the final say on whether or not you've abandoned your status.

What's the point of your questions? You might as well claim to be a great shark killer - but it's all but meaningless unless you're in shark-infested waters and can demonstrate your claim. So, what advantage is there by thinking that you're a PR (or being able to claim to be a PR) while residing outside of the US?

Ian

S Folinsky

Your questions are good ones. The answers you have received from Ian and Pulaski are pretty good. That said, the law of abandonment can be hard to summarize. In their responses I kept thinking 98% correct. The reason for obtaining competent legal advice is locate that 2% situation(s).

In Google Scholar, you may want to look at he cases of Khodagholian v Ashcroft, Angeles v District Director, and United States v Yakou. These cases will give you the flavor of the absurd complexity of this area of law. The mother administrative law cases are Matter of Kane and Matter of Huang.

Also, there are sometimes employment based reasons an LPR residing abroad will not be considered to have abandoned.

Maximus12

Thank you. Very interesting indeed!

Maximus12

My goal is to try to get to the crux of the matter. At what point does someone actually lose their legal PR status.

From what I can gather based on the answers above. It's one of two ways:

1) You voluntarily abandon your PR status by signing form I-407

Or

2) An Immigration Judge will determine if you have abandoned your PR status. No one else can actually determine this. Only the judge. No consulate person, no CBP. No one else. Everything else is irrelevant.

Also, the only time you will have the opportunity of sitting in front of the immigration judge is possibly when you go through CBP. If you do not go through CBP then there is no chance of having your PR LEGALLY removed.

So in effect you could be considered a Legal Permanent Resident ad infinitum.

Is this correct?

tom169

I dare say no one really knows. From the responses above it's all inter twined in case law.

Aside from after 1 year you can't travel to the US on a green card. I guess you could try a land crossing from Mexico or Canada?

I think you may face CBP trying to "bully" you into signing a I-407, but if you don't they will parole you into the US to see an immigration judge. The hearing wouldn't be there at the border, you will be given summons.

Maximus12

But in order to have the hearing with the immigration judge you have to present yourself at the border. If you don't present yourself then you don't see the CBP therefore you don't see the judge and therefore you are legally still a PR.

Noorah101

So?

Rene

Maximus12

So?

Is this statement true?

ian-mstm

Okay - so what advantage is there in being able to claim you're a PR without ever having that status questioned? Of what use can it possibly be?

Ian