FlightRisk

This is a pretty unique situation, but especially at this time of year, quitting a job and having to find a new one in 60 days is pretty much of a hardship. The situation is a J2, divorcing a J1 who leaves the country this month. Then the J2 getting remarried and filing for AOS. J2 has current EAD and SS# and a job (until the divorce or J1 leaving negates the J2). There is NO 2YHRR.

Timeline will be for J2 to get divorced and re-married and file for AOS within 30 days. Either immediately with the divorce or 30 days after (no one seems to know), technically the EAD becomes invalid. What is the realistic risk to the AOS process by not quitting the job? I'm worried about compounding circumstances, as there will be the issue of a few weeks out of status for the time it takes to finalize the divorce, get remarried and file for AOS, and also the 60 days or so of expired EAD until the new one comes (that we could get the same day if it weren't for backlogs in some offices ). What happened to equal protection under the law?

Some posters have repeated things they have heard that overstays and working without authorization are forgiven in marriage cases, but no attoryney's have posted real experience about this. Would you take the risk? Is it even a risk to getting the AOS approved? Thanks.

FR

Ingo Pakleppa

On Wed, 04 Dec 2002 16:20:50 +0000, FlightRisk wrote:

    >
    > This is a pretty unique situation, but especially at this time of year,
    > quitting a job and having to find a new one in 60 days is pretty much of
    > a hardship. The situation is a J2, divorcing a J1 who leaves the country
    > this month. Then the J2 getting remarried and filing for AOS. J2 has
    > current EAD and SS# and a job (until the divorce or J1 leaving negates
    > the J2). There is NO 2YHRR.
    >
    > Timeline will be for J2 to get divorced and re-married and file for AOS
    > within 30 days. Either immediately with the divorce or 30 days after (no
    > one seems to know), technically the EAD becomes invalid. What is the
    > realistic risk to the AOS process by not quitting the job? I'm worried
    > about compounding circumstances, as there will be the issue of a few
    > weeks out of status for the time it takes to finalize the divorce, get
    > remarried and file for AOS, and also the 60 days or so of expired EAD
    > until the new one comes (that we could get the same day if it weren't
    > for backlogs in some offices ). What happened to equal protection
    > under the law?
    >
    > Some posters have repeated things they have heard that overstays and
    > working without authorization are forgiven in marriage cases, but no
    > attoryney's have posted real experience about this. Would you take the
    > risk? Is it even a risk to getting the AOS approved? Thanks.

The most important question is missing: whom are you marrying? Is your new
spouse also a J-1, or is he or she a US citizen, or a Green Card holder,
or what else?

If he is a US citizen, then overstays and working without authorization
are forgiven. If he is a Green Card holder, you can't even file an AOS. If
he is a J-1, then you can get a new J-2, but no AOS, and working or
overstaying is NOT forgiven.

Your safest bet, of course, is to quit your job on the day of the divorce
(there is NO extra 30 days on the EAD) and at the same time request a
change of status to tourist.

FlightRisk

The J2 will marry a USC. You say you could also file for tourist adjustment? I wonder if this is superflous since we would file for the spousal AOS within 30 days anyway? Is it even allowed to go from a J2 to a tourist visa without leaving the country? Or is this a papwerwork shuffle to have a pending application that extends the "in status" status until the tourist visa is denied or you file the AOS paperwork?

FR

Sylvia Ottemoeller

Yes, I assume Ingo was describing a way to maintain lawful status until the
AOS paperwork is filed. And yes, a J-2 status holder who is not obligated
to the two-year home residence requirement is eligible to change from J-2 to
B-2 within the U.S.

Since the AOS is based on marriage to a U.S. citizen, the I-485 can be filed
despite the applicant's having violated status. You can find the law at INA
section 245(c), available through
http://www.ins.usdoj.gov/graphics/lawsregs/INA.htm.

I would not recommend filing an application to change to B-2 status, because
of the conflict between the temporary intent required for the I-539
application and the permanent intent demonstrated by the I-130/I-485
application.

"FlightRisk" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

    > The J2 will marry a USC. You say you could also file for tourist
    > adjustment? I wonder if this is superflous since we would file for the
    > spousal AOS within 30 days anyway? Is it even allowed to go from a J2
    > to a tourist visa without leaving the country? Or is this a papwerwork
    > shuffle to have a pending application that extends the "in status"
    > status until the tourist visa is denied or you file the AOS paperwork?

    > Originally posted by Ingo Pakleppa

    > > On Wed, 04 Dec 2002 16:20:50 +0000, FlightRisk wrote:

    > > > This is a pretty unique situation, but especially at this time of
year,
    > > > quitting a job and having to find a new one in 60 days is pretty much
of
    > > > a hardship. The situation is a J2, divorcing a J1 who leaves the
country
    > > > this month. Then the J2 getting remarried and filing for AOS. J2 has
    > > > current EAD and SS# and a job (until the divorce or J1 leaving negates
    > > > the J2). There is NO 2YHRR.
    > > >
    > > > Timeline will be for J2 to get divorced and re-married and file for
AOS
    > > > within 30 days. Either immediately with the divorce or 30 days after
(no
    > > > one seems to know), technically the EAD becomes invalid. What is the
    > > > realistic risk to the AOS process by not quitting the job? I'm worried
    > > > about compounding circumstances, as there will be the issue of a few
    > > > weeks out of status for the time it takes to finalize the divorce, get
    > > > remarried and file for AOS, and also the 60 days or so of expired EAD
    > > > until the new one comes (that we could get the same day if it weren't
    > > > for backlogs in some offices ). What happened to equal protection
    > > > under the law?
    > > >
    > > > Some posters have repeated things they have heard that overstays and
    > > > working without authorization are forgiven in marriage cases, but no
    > > > attoryney's have posted real experience about this. Would you take
the
    > > > risk? Is it even a risk to getting the AOS approved?

    > > The most important question is missing: whom are you marrying? Is your
new
    > > spouse also a J-1, or is he or she a US citizen, or a Green
    > > Card holder, or what else?
    > >
    > > If he is a US citizen, then overstays and working without authorization
    > > are forgiven. If he is a Green Card holder, you can't even file an AOS.
If
    > > he is a J-1, then you can get a new J-2, but no AOS, and working or
    > > overstaying is NOT forgiven.
    > >
    > > Your safest bet, of course, is to quit your job on the day of the
divorce
    > > (there is NO extra 30 days on the EAD) and at the same time request a
    > change of status to tourist.

Ingo Pakleppa

On Mon, 09 Dec 2002 18:25:13 +0000, FlightRisk wrote:


    > The J2 will marry a USC. You say you could also file for tourist
    > adjustment? I wonder if this is superflous since we would file for the
    > spousal AOS within 30 days anyway?

Yes, if the spouse is a US citizen, this is superfluous. In my mind, it is
still a good idea just to be on the safe side if the marriage doesn't work
out - if she failed to maintain status and she ends up without a Green
Card, then she would also have the added handicap of having a status
violation under her belt.

    > Is it even allowed to go from a J2 to a tourist visa without leaving the
    > country?

Yes, if her husband was not subject to the home residency requirement.

    > Or is this a papwerwork shuffle to have a pending application that
    > extends the "in status" status until the tourist visa is denied or you
    > file the AOS paperwork?

To some extent, that is true. However, it's not completely paperwork
shuffling. If she was subject to the HRR, then filing a change to B-2
wouldn't help because it would be considered frivolous.

    > FR
    >
    > Originally posted by Ingo Pakleppa
    >> On Wed, 04 Dec 2002 16:20:50 +0000, FlightRisk wrote:
    >> > This is a pretty unique situation, but especially at this time
    >> of year,
    >> > quitting a job and having to find a new one in 60 days is pretty
    >> much of
    >> > a hardship. The situation is a J2, divorcing a J1 who leaves the
    >> country
    >> > this month. Then the J2 getting remarried and filing for AOS. J2
    >> has
    >> > current EAD and SS# and a job (until the divorce or J1 leaving
    >> negates
    >> > the J2). There is NO 2YHRR.
    >> >
    >> > Timeline will be for J2 to get divorced and re-married and file
    >> for AOS
    >> > within 30 days. Either immediately with the divorce or 30 days
    >> after (no
    >> > one seems to know), technically the EAD becomes invalid. What is
    >> the
    >> > realistic risk to the AOS process by not quitting the job? I'm
    >> worried
    >> > about compounding circumstances, as there will be the issue of a
    >> few
    >> > weeks out of status for the time it takes to finalize the
    >> divorce, get
    >> > remarried and file for AOS, and also the 60 days or so of
    >> expired EAD
    >> > until the new one comes (that we could get the same day if it
    >> weren't
    >> > for backlogs in some offices ). What happened to equal
    >> protection
    >> > under the law?
    >> >
    >> > Some posters have repeated things they have heard that overstays
    >> and
    >> > working without authorization are forgiven in marriage cases,
    >> but no
    >> > attoryney's have posted real experience about this. Would you
    >> take the
    >> > risk? Is it even a risk to getting the AOS approved?
    >> Thanks.
    >> The most important question is missing: whom are you marrying? Is your
    >> new
    >> spouse also a J-1, or is he or she a US citizen, or a Green Card
    >> holder,
    >> or what else?
    >> If he is a US citizen, then overstays and working without authorization
    >> are forgiven. If he is a Green Card holder, you can't even file an AOS.
    >> If
    >> he is a J-1, then you can get a new J-2, but no AOS, and working or
    >> overstaying is NOT forgiven.
    >> Your safest bet, of course, is to quit your job on the day of the
    >> divorce
    >> (there is NO extra 30 days on the EAD) and at the same time request a
    > change of status to tourist.
    >
    > --
    > Posted via http://britishexpats.com

CanExPat

Forgive me if I'm just a little suspicious, but this sounds like a marriage of convenience. Either the first marriage or the planned marriage after the divorce.

FlightRisk

I'm not sure why you jumped in without anything constructive to say, and even less sure why you would think it is a marriage of convenience, but it most certainly is not. Her first marriage lasted over a dozen years, many of them, especially the latter ones abusive, yet she stayed for the kids and at first to honor her vows of "for better or worse". The situation became unsafe and she HAD to get out. She has been here living and working legally over 2 years, that is how we met while she was separated this year. She was happy to move back to her original country if she got divorced until we fell in love. But then you jumped in without knowing any of the particulars like the the timelines, past history, police reports, mental hospital records, our courting or knowing us or our situation.

As for timing, if we had our druthers, we probably would wait for spring to get married, but because of timing and her having to not work or work illegally for 6 months, we are moving up the wedding date. And THAT is perfectly legal. We are getting married for love, and getting married NOW for necessity (not convenience). Dealing with the INS and paying all these fees and experiencing all this stress and heartache is certainly not convenient. If she came from a Carribean Island or someplace I wouldn't mind living and it had more fair immigration procedures than ours, I would move there with her and the children in an instant.

-FR

FlightRisk

Oh, and I forgot another important fact, HE wanted to divorce HER. She is getting divorced here on her terms before he goes back there to do it. He was just fired and kicked out of US.

FR

CanExPat

Yes, you are right, I do not know the circumstances, that's why I starting off by saying "Forgive me if I'm just a little suspicious..."

Look at it from a third person perspective, if there is a back to back divorce-marriage with a timeline geared toward meeting immigration laws rather than personal 'rediness' then it is suspious.

I already apologized for being suspicous (before I questioned), but the way you defended my questions even makes me supicious of your explanation. Had you explained it in a more calm manner, I may be more convinced.

FlightRisk

You fool no one. Your "Forgive me if I'm just a little suspicious" is no more an apology than "Forgive me while I laugh" You are a typical listserver troll and I allowed you to bait me. Consider yourself ignored.

FR

CanExPat

Your name calling certainly does not add credibility to your claims.

"typical listserver troll"? Yes, forgive me while I laugh. While I have been polite in explaining my position, you have done nothing but raise doubts with your attitude.

When someone questions a matter (politly, I might add), the truth is usually defended with facts, but lies are defended with anger and name calling.

FlightRisk

You just can't resist, can you? Having to get in the last word, baiting with the "if you were telling the truth you would..." and "if you didn't do THIS, I might think you were credible". Is this not trolling behavior? Passive aggressive actions designed to get a response? Which you have by the way, so revel in your victory. I don't need your approval and really don't care what you do or don't doubt. I say that just as matter of fact, not with any rudeness attached to it. You act as if I have to sway you to have a healthy and happy marriage, or get your approval to adjust our status.

And your logic is flawed with the "truth is defended with facts while lies are defended with anger and name calling" nonsense. You know very well there are lots of factors involved such as the skill of the debator and their frame of mind. I can call you or your mother a nasty name and you can get angry and lash back out, but it doesn't mean that what I said was true or that you are a liar, does it? You wouldn't list the facts of why you or your mother are canditates for sainthood. If you believe it still, then you must be lying yourself because of the sarcastic and defensive way you have responded to me. Is that true?

People come here on this board and are either very supportive and helpful, or they are here to try to make themselves feel superior over others or provoke ire, they feed on it. I'm not sure which you are, but you haven't tried to be helpful. I see you have only posted 5 messages and most of them have been to me. If I misread your intent, which is easy to do without voice inflection and facial cues, then I apologize. But I think if you took a poll of the people reading this thread, they might say you were certainly not polite and your intent was malicious rather then helpful.

I gave you plenty of facts to support what I was trying to do. I got defensive because I tire of internet trolls like the person who posted the "close the floodgates" thread just to get people riled up. It seemed like you were the same kind of person, jumping in at a time when we have gone through 3 months of literal hell already and need help working out our complicated situation.

If you truly were polite, you could have apologized, you could have wished us luck with our petition, you could have sypmathized with a family of four trying to go through quite a bit of hardship with a situation involving more than the usual amount of extenuating circumstances just in time for the Christmas holiday, you could have offered support, you could have even said something like "this might appear suspicious to the INS, you might want to document such and such". Instead, you chose to challenge and provoke and offer your personal skepticism of our relationship and character. Maybe you could re-read your wording and how someone might take what you have written instead of defending your position.

The one thing I did take as not baiting, was the "see how this would appear to a third party" paragraph. I can understand that point of view and I can see how with limited information, someone could choose to question the situation. After all, it's the JOB of the INS to try to prevent fraudulent situations. But if a person has been legally separated and they are waiting for their divorce to be final to marry someone else, that happens every day in America, there is nothing even unusual about it. Perhaps INS, who is the only real authority here may look at the time line and ask a question such as "it looks like you got divorced, re-married and filed AOS in the same year, what proof do you have that this is a bone fide?". To which we can provide ample proof and the specific history of our circumstances.

FR

CanExPat

"The one thing I did take as not baiting, was the "see how this would appear to a third party" paragraph. I can understand that point of view and I can see how with limited information, someone could choose to question the situation."

As you have already noticed, I HAD explained to you why I was suspicious. But instead of referring me to an earlier thread or explaining your situation, you decided to throw punches.

Maybe it is better for you to heed your own words and to put me on ignore.

Don't worry, I won't be 'baiting' you anymore as I've already hijacked the thread long enough.

Ingo Pakleppa

On Mon, 09 Dec 2002 18:25:13 +0000, FlightRisk wrote:


    > The J2 will marry a USC. You say you could also file for tourist
    > adjustment? I wonder if this is superflous since we would file for the
    > spousal AOS within 30 days anyway?

Yes, if the spouse is a US citizen, this is superfluous. In my mind, it is
still a good idea just to be on the safe side if the marriage doesn't work
out - if she failed to maintain status and she ends up without a Green
Card, then she would also have the added handicap of having a status
violation under her belt.

    > Is it even allowed to go from a J2 to a tourist visa without leaving the
    > country?

Yes, if her husband was not subject to the home residency requirement.

    > Or is this a papwerwork shuffle to have a pending application that
    > extends the "in status" status until the tourist visa is denied or you
    > file the AOS paperwork?

To some extent, that is true. However, it's not completely paperwork
shuffling. If she was subject to the HRR, then filing a change to B-2
wouldn't help because it would be considered frivolous.

    > FR
    >
    > Originally posted by Ingo Pakleppa
    >> On Wed, 04 Dec 2002 16:20:50 +0000, FlightRisk wrote:
    >> > This is a pretty unique situation, but especially at this time
    >> of year,
    >> > quitting a job and having to find a new one in 60 days is pretty
    >> much of
    >> > a hardship. The situation is a J2, divorcing a J1 who leaves the
    >> country
    >> > this month. Then the J2 getting remarried and filing for AOS. J2
    >> has
    >> > current EAD and SS# and a job (until the divorce or J1 leaving
    >> negates
    >> > the J2). There is NO 2YHRR.
    >> >
    >> > Timeline will be for J2 to get divorced and re-married and file
    >> for AOS
    >> > within 30 days. Either immediately with the divorce or 30 days
    >> after (no
    >> > one seems to know), technically the EAD becomes invalid. What is
    >> the
    >> > realistic risk to the AOS process by not quitting the job? I'm
    >> worried
    >> > about compounding circumstances, as there will be the issue of a
    >> few
    >> > weeks out of status for the time it takes to finalize the
    >> divorce, get
    >> > remarried and file for AOS, and also the 60 days or so of
    >> expired EAD
    >> > until the new one comes (that we could get the same day if it
    >> weren't
    >> > for backlogs in some offices ). What happened to equal
    >> protection
    >> > under the law?
    >> >
    >> > Some posters have repeated things they have heard that overstays
    >> and
    >> > working without authorization are forgiven in marriage cases,
    >> but no
    >> > attoryney's have posted real experience about this. Would you
    >> take the
    >> > risk? Is it even a risk to getting the AOS approved?
    >> Thanks.
    >> The most important question is missing: whom are you marrying? Is your
    >> new
    >> spouse also a J-1, or is he or she a US citizen, or a Green Card
    >> holder,
    >> or what else?
    >> If he is a US citizen, then overstays and working without authorization
    >> are forgiven. If he is a Green Card holder, you can't even file an AOS.
    >> If
    >> he is a J-1, then you can get a new J-2, but no AOS, and working or
    >> overstaying is NOT forgiven.
    >> Your safest bet, of course, is to quit your job on the day of the
    >> divorce
    >> (there is NO extra 30 days on the EAD) and at the same time request a
    > change of status to tourist.
    >
    > --
    > Posted via http://britishexpats.com