7%Palmtree

My F-1 visa expired in this July. I am planning on indefinite
return to my country, China in this October. I still have a
valid Chinese passport of course.

I had to make such a decision due to personal situation.
Concerning my return to China, I would appreciate advices on:

1. What official procedures I need to go through for both the
American and Chinese sides before I leave the US
2. Whether there are anticipated hassles given by the US
Immigrations due to the expired visa?

These are my current concerns. Should you think I have missed
anything out, please feel free to advise.

Thank you for your time.

PT

Ingo Pakleppa - See Web Site For Email

On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 01:28:48 +0000, 7%palmtree wrote:

    > My F-1 visa expired in this July. I am planning on indefinite return to
    > my country, China in this October. I still have a valid Chinese passport
    > of course.
    >
    > I had to make such a decision due to personal situation. Concerning my
    > return to China, I would appreciate advices on:
    >
    > 1. What official procedures I need to go through for both the American
    > and Chinese sides before I leave the US

I don't know anything about the Chinese side. On the US side, there is
nothing you have to do (unless you are subject to special registration,
which seems unlikely for a Chinese citizen).

    > 2. Whether there are anticipated hassles given by the US Immigrations
    > due to the expired visa?

Are you talking about the VISA or your STATUS that expired? I am assuming
that you are talking about the visa, since most F-1s have a status that
doesn't expire. For the difference, please see my FAQ page.

In that case, you will not have any problem at all. You are not required
to maintain a valid visa while in the US, just valid status.

Even if your status has expired, there will not be any hassles from the US
side right now. There might be some problems if you plan on returning to
the USA in the future in that case. But even that is far from certain.

Ingo

--
Remember, I am strictly a layperson without any legal training. I encourage
everybody to seek competent legal counsel rather than relying on usenet
newsgroups.

Please support H.R. 539, H.R. 832 and S. 1510. More information at
http://www.kkeane.com/lobbyspousal-faq.shtml

Please visit my new FAQ at http://www.kkeane.com (always under construction)

My email address in usenet posts is now invalid for spam protection. See
my Web site for information on how to contact me.

Now with new photos! Please feel free to enjoy some of my photographs at my
new Web site http://www.ingopakleppa.com ! Comments are welcome.

7%Palmtree

Ingo Pakleppa - see web site for email <[email protected]> wrote
in news[email protected]:

    > On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 01:28:48 +0000, 7%palmtree wrote:
    >
    >> My F-1 visa expired in this July. I am planning on
    >> indefinite return to my country, China in this October. I
    >> still have a valid Chinese passport of course.
    >>
    >> I had to make such a decision due to personal situation.
    >> Concerning my return to China, I would appreciate advices
    >> on:
    >>
    >> 1. What official procedures I need to go through for both
    >> the American and Chinese sides before I leave the US
    >
    > I don't know anything about the Chinese side. On the US
    > side, there is nothing you have to do (unless you are
    > subject to special registration, which seems unlikely for a
    > Chinese citizen).
Thank you for the helpful reponse, Ingo. The Chinese side
should not be any problem since I do have a valid Chinese
passport.

    >> 2. Whether there are anticipated hassles given by the US
    >> Immigrations due to the expired visa?
    >
    > Are you talking about the VISA or your STATUS that expired?
    > I am assuming that you are talking about the visa, since
    > most F-1s have a status that doesn't expire. For the
    > difference, please see my FAQ page.
    > In that case, you will not have any problem at all. You are
    > not required to maintain a valid visa while in the US, just
    > valid status.
    >
    > Even if your status has expired, there will not be any
    > hassles from the US side right now. There might be some
    > problems if you plan on returning to the USA in the future
    > in that case. But even that is far from certain.
    >
Thank you for the informative page. In fact, it was I-20
status I was referring to. I have been out of I-20 status
since this July. I am relieved to know that no hassles would
be imposed by the US side. Do I need to bring the I-20
documents with me to the US immigrations at departing airport
when leaving the US? I will be working for an American firm in
China, and possible return to the US in the future can not be
determined at this point.

Again, thank you.

PT

Ingo Pakleppa - See Web Site For Email

On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 15:29:49 +0000, 7%palmtree wrote:

    > Thank you for the informative page. In fact, it was I-20 status I was
    > referring to. I have been out of I-20 status since this July. I am
    > relieved to know that no hassles would be imposed by the US side.

Do keep in mind that you probably have been out of status (or maybe not,
due to grace periods etc. depending on the details; only an attorney can
tell for sure). It won't be a huge big deal right now.

    > Do I need to bring the I-20 documents with me to the US immigrations at
    > departing airport when leaving the US?

You won't even see a US immigration agent when leaving. Boarding an
international flight is virtually the same as boarding a domestic flight.
The airline personell will collect your I-94 together with your ticket.
That's the only document you need.

However, you DO need to keep the I-20 for the rest of your life, as well
as the boarding pass for the flight on which you departed.

    > I will be working for an American firm in China, and possible return to
    > the US in the future can not be determined at this point.

In that case, you would have to apply for a B-1 (or possibly L-1) visa at
a US consulate in China. That's when it is possible that they may question
you and give you a hard time getting your visa. It depends very much on
how long ago your departure was when you apply for the visa, as well as
generally your circumstances of life.

Also, do be aware that it will probably not be possible for you to get any
extensions or changes of status in the USA; you would have to leave the US
on time and may have to get a new visa in China if your business trip
takes longer. That's really the only substantial consequence of having
overstayed.

Also, you are likely not eligible to use US consulates in any other
country but China.

--
Remember, I am strictly a layperson without any legal training. I encourage
everybody to seek competent legal counsel rather than relying on usenet
newsgroups.

Please support H.R. 539, H.R. 832 and S. 1510. More information at
http://www.kkeane.com/lobbyspousal-faq.shtml

Please visit my new FAQ at http://www.kkeane.com (always under construction)

My email address in usenet posts is now invalid for spam protection. See
my Web site for information on how to contact me.

Now with new photos! Please feel free to enjoy some of my photographs at my
new Web site http://www.ingopakleppa.com ! Comments are welcome.

Anthony

Ingo,

What does it mean "most F-1s have a status that doesn't expire"? Are you
referring to I-94 with 'D/S'? Are you saying if someone has F-1 status,
never left US since the first time he was admitted as F-1 with I-94 D/S,
graduated from college, and stayed for couple years after the expiration of
OPT card and even the I-20, this person would not be subject to 3 year or 10
years ban?


Ingo Pakleppa - see web site for email" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]...
    > On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 01:28:48 +0000, 7%palmtree wrote:
    > > My F-1 visa expired in this July. I am planning on indefinite return to
    > > my country, China in this October. I still have a valid Chinese passport
    > > of course.
    > >
    > > I had to make such a decision due to personal situation. Concerning my
    > > return to China, I would appreciate advices on:
    > >
    > > 1. What official procedures I need to go through for both the American
    > > and Chinese sides before I leave the US
    > I don't know anything about the Chinese side. On the US side, there is
    > nothing you have to do (unless you are subject to special registration,
    > which seems unlikely for a Chinese citizen).
    > > 2. Whether there are anticipated hassles given by the US Immigrations
    > > due to the expired visa?
    > Are you talking about the VISA or your STATUS that expired? I am assuming
    > that you are talking about the visa, since most F-1s have a status that
    > doesn't expire. For the difference, please see my FAQ page.
    > In that case, you will not have any problem at all. You are not required
    > to maintain a valid visa while in the US, just valid status.
    > Even if your status has expired, there will not be any hassles from the US
    > side right now. There might be some problems if you plan on returning to
    > the USA in the future in that case. But even that is far from certain.
    > Ingo
    > --
    > Remember, I am strictly a layperson without any legal training. I
encourage
    > everybody to seek competent legal counsel rather than relying on usenet
    > newsgroups.
    > Please support H.R. 539, H.R. 832 and S. 1510. More information at
    > http://www.kkeane.com/lobbyspousal-faq.shtml
    > Please visit my new FAQ at http://www.kkeane.com (always under
construction)
    > My email address in usenet posts is now invalid for spam protection. See
    > my Web site for information on how to contact me.
    > Now with new photos! Please feel free to enjoy some of my photographs at
my
    > new Web site http://www.ingopakleppa.com ! Comments are welcome.

Anthony

Ingo,

Correct me if I am wrong. However, I experienced this myself and also my
wife. Given the past experiences though, it seems the airline personnel does
NOT collect I-94 bearing the stamp "D/S". I left in 2001 and I still have my
I-94 "D/S" in my passport.
My wife left US in 2000 as F-1 student with I-94 "D/S". Again, the airline
did not collect that I-94. She still has it in the passport, AND after one
year outside USA, she applied B1/B2 visa (whatever you call it as tourist
visa), and got approved, and visited US briefly in 2001. When she left, this
time, the airline personnel did take away her I-94 with date (whe she
entered as B1/B2) and again still left her previous I-94 "D/S" there.

"Ingo Pakleppa - see web site for email" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]...
    > On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 15:29:49 +0000, 7%palmtree wrote:
    > > Thank you for the informative page. In fact, it was I-20 status I was
    > > referring to. I have been out of I-20 status since this July. I am
    > > relieved to know that no hassles would be imposed by the US side.
    > Do keep in mind that you probably have been out of status (or maybe not,
    > due to grace periods etc. depending on the details; only an attorney can
    > tell for sure). It won't be a huge big deal right now.
    > > Do I need to bring the I-20 documents with me to the US immigrations at
    > > departing airport when leaving the US?
    > You won't even see a US immigration agent when leaving. Boarding an
    > international flight is virtually the same as boarding a domestic flight.
    > The airline personell will collect your I-94 together with your ticket.
    > That's the only document you need.
    > However, you DO need to keep the I-20 for the rest of your life, as well
    > as the boarding pass for the flight on which you departed.
    > > I will be working for an American firm in China, and possible return to
    > > the US in the future can not be determined at this point.
    > In that case, you would have to apply for a B-1 (or possibly L-1) visa at
    > a US consulate in China. That's when it is possible that they may question
    > you and give you a hard time getting your visa. It depends very much on
    > how long ago your departure was when you apply for the visa, as well as
    > generally your circumstances of life.
    > Also, do be aware that it will probably not be possible for you to get any
    > extensions or changes of status in the USA; you would have to leave the US
    > on time and may have to get a new visa in China if your business trip
    > takes longer. That's really the only substantial consequence of having
    > overstayed.
    > Also, you are likely not eligible to use US consulates in any other
    > country but China.
    > --
    > Remember, I am strictly a layperson without any legal training. I
encourage
    > everybody to seek competent legal counsel rather than relying on usenet
    > newsgroups.
    > Please support H.R. 539, H.R. 832 and S. 1510. More information at
    > http://www.kkeane.com/lobbyspousal-faq.shtml
    > Please visit my new FAQ at http://www.kkeane.com (always under
construction)
    > My email address in usenet posts is now invalid for spam protection. See
    > my Web site for information on how to contact me.
    > Now with new photos! Please feel free to enjoy some of my photographs at
my
    > new Web site http://www.ingopakleppa.com ! Comments are welcome.

Ingo Pakleppa - See Web Site For Email

On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 04:45:15 -0700, Anthony wrote:

    > Ingo,
    >
    > Correct me if I am wrong. However, I experienced this myself and also my
    > wife. Given the past experiences though, it seems the airline personnel
    > does NOT collect I-94 bearing the stamp "D/S". I left in 2001 and I
    > still have my I-94 "D/S" in my passport.

If you are going to Canada, Mexico or the Caribbean, that is generally
true unless you specifically ask. You are supposed to ask for them to
collect it if you plan on leaving Canada or Mexico (or the Caribbean) for
another country, or if you plan to stay there for more than 30 days.

In fact, going to Canada or Mexico, they usually don't collect any I-94s.
Going to the Caribbean, this is only true for F-1 and F-2 I-94s. It has
nothing to do with the D/S, though.

Going to any other country, though, they are supposed to collect all
I-94s. I have had airlines forget to do that on occasion. It's not a huge
deal, but means that your departure is never recorded.

    > My wife left US in 2000 as F-1 student with I-94 "D/S". Again, the
    > airline did not collect that I-94. She still has it in the passport, AND
    > after one year outside USA, she applied B1/B2 visa (whatever you call it
    > as tourist visa), and got approved, and visited US briefly in 2001. When
    > she left, this time, the airline personnel did take away her I-94 with
    > date (whe she entered as B1/B2) and again still left her previous I-94
    > "D/S" there.

She got lucky. It could have caused problems because her departure from
the US was never recorded. If such a thing happens, you are supposed to
surrender the I-94 to a US consulate abroad along with evidence that she
actually left (such as a boarding pass).

--
Remember, I am strictly a layperson without any legal training. I encourage
everybody to seek competent legal counsel rather than relying on usenet
newsgroups.

Please support H.R. 539, H.R. 832 and S. 1510. More information at
http://www.kkeane.com/lobbyspousal-faq.shtml

Please visit my new FAQ at http://www.kkeane.com (always under construction)

My email address in usenet posts is now invalid for spam protection. See
my Web site for information on how to contact me.

Now with new photos! Please feel free to enjoy some of my photographs at my
new Web site http://www.ingopakleppa.com ! Comments are welcome.

Ingo Pakleppa - See Web Site For Email

Your reading is exactly right. Note that while the status doesn't expire
based on time, of course it DOES end based on the end of the authorized
activity - studying or OPT, in this case.

On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 04:32:48 -0700, Anthony wrote:

    > What does it mean "most F-1s have a status that doesn't expire"? Are you
    > referring to I-94 with 'D/S'? Are you saying if someone has F-1 status,
    > never left US since the first time he was admitted as F-1 with I-94 D/S,
    > graduated from college, and stayed for couple years after the expiration
    > of OPT card and even the I-20, this person would not be subject to 3
    > year or 10 years ban?

--
Remember, I am strictly a layperson without any legal training. I encourage
everybody to seek competent legal counsel rather than relying on usenet
newsgroups.

Please support H.R. 539, H.R. 832 and S. 1510. More information at
http://www.kkeane.com/lobbyspousal-faq.shtml

Please visit my new FAQ at http://www.kkeane.com (always under construction)

My email address in usenet posts is now invalid for spam protection. See
my Web site for information on how to contact me.

Now with new photos! Please feel free to enjoy some of my photographs at my
new Web site http://www.ingopakleppa.com ! Comments are welcome.

Anthony

Actually, we left for Asia. All our departures were from SFO. I am not sure
if "lucky" is the right word for my wife's case though.
Here is why. When my wife left US in 2000 as F-1 student with I-94 "D/S" in
her passport, after one year,
she went to US consulate for applying B1/B2 visa, with the old I-94 "D/S"
was still in her passport.
I wouldn't believe if the US consulate officers didn't notice that. So, I
assumed, they indeed saw that old white I-94 "D/S" in her passport, yet
didn't take it away nor giving hard time even rejected her B1/B2 visa
application. She GOT it.
Later, when she made the trip using B1/B2 visa, again, the officers at POE
in SFO didn't question her existing old I-94 "D/S" in her passport.
Given these experiences, they were aware of this, and I assumed this was the
correct way to handle I-94 "D/S" by INS (at the time)?

"Ingo Pakleppa - see web site for email" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]...
    > On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 04:45:15 -0700, Anthony wrote:
    > > Ingo,
    > >
    > > Correct me if I am wrong. However, I experienced this myself and also my
    > > wife. Given the past experiences though, it seems the airline personnel
    > > does NOT collect I-94 bearing the stamp "D/S". I left in 2001 and I
    > > still have my I-94 "D/S" in my passport.
    > If you are going to Canada, Mexico or the Caribbean, that is generally
    > true unless you specifically ask. You are supposed to ask for them to
    > collect it if you plan on leaving Canada or Mexico (or the Caribbean) for
    > another country, or if you plan to stay there for more than 30 days.
    > In fact, going to Canada or Mexico, they usually don't collect any I-94s.
    > Going to the Caribbean, this is only true for F-1 and F-2 I-94s. It has
    > nothing to do with the D/S, though.
    > Going to any other country, though, they are supposed to collect all
    > I-94s. I have had airlines forget to do that on occasion. It's not a huge
    > deal, but means that your departure is never recorded.
    > > My wife left US in 2000 as F-1 student with I-94 "D/S". Again, the
    > > airline did not collect that I-94. She still has it in the passport, AND
    > > after one year outside USA, she applied B1/B2 visa (whatever you call it
    > > as tourist visa), and got approved, and visited US briefly in 2001. When
    > > she left, this time, the airline personnel did take away her I-94 with
    > > date (whe she entered as B1/B2) and again still left her previous I-94
    > > "D/S" there.
    > She got lucky. It could have caused problems because her departure from
    > the US was never recorded. If such a thing happens, you are supposed to
    > surrender the I-94 to a US consulate abroad along with evidence that she
    > actually left (such as a boarding pass).
    > --
    > Remember, I am strictly a layperson without any legal training. I
encourage
    > everybody to seek competent legal counsel rather than relying on usenet
    > newsgroups.
    > Please support H.R. 539, H.R. 832 and S. 1510. More information at
    > http://www.kkeane.com/lobbyspousal-faq.shtml
    > Please visit my new FAQ at http://www.kkeane.com (always under
construction)
    > My email address in usenet posts is now invalid for spam protection. See
    > my Web site for information on how to contact me.
    > Now with new photos! Please feel free to enjoy some of my photographs at
my
    > new Web site http://www.ingopakleppa.com ! Comments are welcome.

Thorsten

Anthony wrote:

    > I wouldn't believe if the US consulate officers didn't notice that. So, I
    > assumed, they indeed saw that old white I-94 "D/S" in her passport, yet
    > didn't take it away nor giving hard time even rejected her B1/B2 visa
    > application. She GOT it.
    > Later, when she made the trip using B1/B2 visa, again, the officers at POE
    > in SFO didn't question her existing old I-94 "D/S" in her passport.
    > Given these experiences, they were aware of this, and I assumed this was the
    > correct way to handle I-94 "D/S" by INS (at the time)?

    > "Ingo Pakleppa - see web site for email" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news[email protected]...
    >>On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 04:45:15 -0700, Anthony wrote:

    >>>Correct me if I am wrong. However, I experienced this myself and also my
    >>>wife. Given the past experiences though, it seems the airline personnel
    >>>does NOT collect I-94 bearing the stamp "D/S". I left in 2001 and I
    >>>still have my I-94 "D/S" in my passport.
[...]

Anthony,

Please rest assured that Ingo has an exceptional reputation in this
group for giving thoughtful and accurate comments, which have helped
literally hundreds if not thousands of people.

Stories like yours are very common. Some people ignore, bend, or
outright break the rules, never get caught, and subsequently assume that
this is how the system is supposed to work. While such an inference is
understandable, it is nevertheless incorrect.

As to your particular concern, yes, you are supposed to surrender your
I-94 when you leave the U.S. While airline personnel _usually_ collect
them, they often don't. This has happened to a lot of people, incl.
myself and many people I know. Those of us who know a little bit about
the procedure usually just hand the I-94 over to airline staff
ourselves. Remember, the onus is still on you to surrender your I-94,
not the airline. It is also true that in the past, I-94 departure
records were often basically thrown away after being collected by the
airlines. This seems to have changed after 9/11, however, and today,
immigration authorities have ways of accessing data from collected
departure records. If you don't surrender yours, you may get into
trouble later, as there is no record that you ever departed the U.S.
This does not mean that you always will get into trouble, even if an old
I-94 is still in your passport. (Immigration officials certainly know
that these cards haven't always be collected and that many people simply
don't know that they should surrender them themselves in such
situations.) But if an immigration officer so chose, you _could_ get
into trouble, even over something as mundane. It's up to you if you want
to take such chances.

Good luck,
Thorsten

--
Formerly reachable via thacct-.-at-.-yaaaahooooo-.-dot-.-com

Ingo Pakleppa - See Web Site For Email

On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 20:31:28 +0000, Thorsten wrote:

    > Anthony wrote:
    >
    >> I wouldn't believe if the US consulate officers didn't notice that. So,
    >> I assumed, they indeed saw that old white I-94 "D/S" in her passport,
    >> yet didn't take it away nor giving hard time even rejected her B1/B2
    >> visa application. She GOT it.
    >> Later, when she made the trip using B1/B2 visa, again, the officers at
    >> POE in SFO didn't question her existing old I-94 "D/S" in her passport.
    >> Given these experiences, they were aware of this, and I assumed this
    >> was the correct way to handle I-94 "D/S" by INS (at the time)?
    >
    >> "Ingo Pakleppa - see web site for email" <[email protected]> wrote in
    >> message news[email protected]...
    >>>On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 04:45:15 -0700, Anthony wrote:
    >
    >>>>Correct me if I am wrong. However, I experienced this myself and also
    >>>>my wife. Given the past experiences though, it seems the airline
    >>>>personnel does NOT collect I-94 bearing the stamp "D/S". I left in
    >>>>2001 and I still have my I-94 "D/S" in my passport.
    > [...]
    >
    > Anthony,
    >
    > Stories like yours are very common. Some people ignore, bend, or
    > outright break the rules, never get caught, and subsequently assume that
    > this is how the system is supposed to work. While such an inference is
    > understandable, it is nevertheless incorrect.

Or people - either the F-1, airline personell or immigration officers -
simply make mistakes. The assumption that the consular officer or
immigration officer should have noticed the old I-94 sounds reasonable,
but actually is unfounded. They are used to leaving through hundred's of
people's passports every day, and I am sure that many people leave all
kinds of papers in the passport. So it would be only by chance that an
officer notices that a particular piece of paper is an old I-94 that
shouldn't be there, rather than a receipt from McDonald's or a vacation
postcard from Australia.

It did happen to me once (on a total of maybe 100 or so trips out of the
US) that the airline forgot to collect the I-94. In my case, it was very
easily fixed; I simply handed it over to the officer when I returned a
week later.

All that said, I would not worry about it too much. Yes, it is true, as
Thorsten said, that your wife COULD get into problems again. At the end of
the day, though, it's rather unlikely because immigration officers
searching records would find the more recent I-94 from her last trip.


--
Remember, I am strictly a layperson without any legal training. I encourage
everybody to seek competent legal counsel rather than relying on usenet
newsgroups.

Please support H.R. 539, H.R. 832 and S. 1510. More information at
http://www.kkeane.com/lobbyspousal-faq.shtml

Please visit my new FAQ at http://www.kkeane.com (always under construction)

My email address in usenet posts is now invalid for spam protection. See
my Web site for information on how to contact me.

Now with new photos! Please feel free to enjoy some of my photographs at my
new Web site http://www.ingopakleppa.com ! Comments are welcome.

Anthony

Thanks Ingo and Thorsten for your comments. I just wanted to share my own
experience. Obviously, things will never be the same again after 911.
I now know what I am supposed to do if this kind of thing happen again in
the future.
Thanks again.


"Ingo Pakleppa - see web site for email" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]...
    > On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 20:31:28 +0000, Thorsten wrote:
    > > Anthony wrote:
    > >
    > >> I wouldn't believe if the US consulate officers didn't notice that. So,
    > >> I assumed, they indeed saw that old white I-94 "D/S" in her passport,
    > >> yet didn't take it away nor giving hard time even rejected her B1/B2
    > >> visa application. She GOT it.
    > >> Later, when she made the trip using B1/B2 visa, again, the officers at
    > >> POE in SFO didn't question her existing old I-94 "D/S" in her passport.
    > >> Given these experiences, they were aware of this, and I assumed this
    > >> was the correct way to handle I-94 "D/S" by INS (at the time)?
    > >
    > >> "Ingo Pakleppa - see web site for email" <[email protected]> wrote in
    > >> message news[email protected]...
    > >>>On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 04:45:15 -0700, Anthony wrote:
    > >
    > >>>>Correct me if I am wrong. However, I experienced this myself and also
    > >>>>my wife. Given the past experiences though, it seems the airline
    > >>>>personnel does NOT collect I-94 bearing the stamp "D/S". I left in
    > >>>>2001 and I still have my I-94 "D/S" in my passport.
    > > [...]
    > >
    > > Anthony,
    > >
    > > Stories like yours are very common. Some people ignore, bend, or
    > > outright break the rules, never get caught, and subsequently assume that
    > > this is how the system is supposed to work. While such an inference is
    > > understandable, it is nevertheless incorrect.
    > Or people - either the F-1, airline personell or immigration officers -
    > simply make mistakes. The assumption that the consular officer or
    > immigration officer should have noticed the old I-94 sounds reasonable,
    > but actually is unfounded. They are used to leaving through hundred's of
    > people's passports every day, and I am sure that many people leave all
    > kinds of papers in the passport. So it would be only by chance that an
    > officer notices that a particular piece of paper is an old I-94 that
    > shouldn't be there, rather than a receipt from McDonald's or a vacation
    > postcard from Australia.
    > It did happen to me once (on a total of maybe 100 or so trips out of the
    > US) that the airline forgot to collect the I-94. In my case, it was very
    > easily fixed; I simply handed it over to the officer when I returned a
    > week later.
    > All that said, I would not worry about it too much. Yes, it is true, as
    > Thorsten said, that your wife COULD get into problems again. At the end of
    > the day, though, it's rather unlikely because immigration officers
    > searching records would find the more recent I-94 from her last trip.
    > --
    > Remember, I am strictly a layperson without any legal training. I
encourage
    > everybody to seek competent legal counsel rather than relying on usenet
    > newsgroups.
    > Please support H.R. 539, H.R. 832 and S. 1510. More information at
    > http://www.kkeane.com/lobbyspousal-faq.shtml
    > Please visit my new FAQ at http://www.kkeane.com (always under
construction)
    > My email address in usenet posts is now invalid for spam protection. See
    > my Web site for information on how to contact me.
    > Now with new photos! Please feel free to enjoy some of my photographs at
my
    > new Web site http://www.ingopakleppa.com ! Comments are welcome.

7%Palmtree

"Anthony" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

    > What does it mean "most F-1s have a status that doesn't
    > expire"? Are you referring to I-94 with 'D/S'? Are you
    > saying if someone has F-1 status, never left US since the
    > first time he was admitted as F-1 with I-94 D/S, graduated
    > from college, and stayed for couple years after the
    > expiration of OPT card and even the I-20, this person would
    > not be subject to 3 year or 10 years ban?

I have just read the entire thread carefully, after being away
from this thread. Very educational indeed. Thank you all.

I'd just like to re-confirm my situation:
1. Graduated with a master degree and got OPT approved on
15JUL2002.
2. OPT expired on this 14JUL2003.
3. I have a scheduled departure from the US in this Nov, approx
three months after the expiration of OPT.

I wonder my situation would be possible subject to the 3/10 yr
ban as Anthony pointed out. Thank you for your great kindness.

PT

Ingo Pakleppa - See Web Site For Email

On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 01:58:55 +0000, 7%palmtree wrote:

    > "Anthony" <[email protected]> wrote in
    > news:[email protected]:
    >
    >> What does it mean "most F-1s have a status that doesn't expire"? Are
    >> you referring to I-94 with 'D/S'? Are you saying if someone has F-1
    >> status, never left US since the first time he was admitted as F-1 with
    >> I-94 D/S, graduated from college, and stayed for couple years after the
    >> expiration of OPT card and even the I-20, this person would not be
    >> subject to 3 year or 10 years ban?
    >
    > I have just read the entire thread carefully, after being away from this
    > thread. Very educational indeed. Thank you all.
    >
    > I'd just like to re-confirm my situation: 1. Graduated with a master
    > degree and got OPT approved on 15JUL2002. 2. OPT expired on this
    > 14JUL2003.
    > 3. I have a scheduled departure from the US in this Nov, approx three
    > months after the expiration of OPT.
    >
    > I wonder my situation would be possible subject to the 3/10 yr ban as
    > Anthony pointed out. Thank you for your great kindness.

No. Three months wouldn't be enough to trigger the bans (although it
sounds like it would be more like 4 months, it's still no problem).

Plus, as long as your I-94 says "D/S" the ban will not apply unless CIS or
an immigration judge explicitly tells you.

I would recommend you make a copy of the I-94 before you leave, and keep
the copy together with your boarding pass for at least the next ten years
- better for the rest of your life - in case you are ever asked about it.

--
Remember, I am strictly a layperson without any legal training. I encourage
everybody to seek competent legal counsel rather than relying on usenet
newsgroups.

Please support H.R. 539, H.R. 832 and S. 1510. More information at
http://www.kkeane.com/lobbyspousal-faq.shtml

Please visit my new FAQ at http://www.kkeane.com (always under construction)

My email address in usenet posts is now invalid for spam protection. See
my Web site for information on how to contact me.

Now with new photos! Please feel free to enjoy some of my photographs at my
new Web site http://www.ingopakleppa.com ! Comments are welcome.

7%Palmtree

Ingo Pakleppa - see web site for email <[email protected]> wrote
in news[email protected]:

    > No. Three months wouldn't be enough to trigger the bans
    > (although it sounds like it would be more like 4 months,
    > it's still no problem).
    >
    > Plus, as long as your I-94 says "D/S" the ban will not
    > apply unless CIS or an immigration judge explicitly tells
    > you.
    >
    > I would recommend you make a copy of the I-94 before you
    > leave, and keep the copy together with your boarding pass
    > for at least the next ten years - better for the rest of
    > your life - in case you are ever asked about it.

Ingo, thank you for your time and valuable advices.

I checked my I-94 card thoroughly. On the back of the card under
Record of Changes, the follows are indicated:

Reinstated F1 D/S
(I believe it is D/S although S looks like 5 also)
PRO1 JUL 15 2002
DK

Departure Record
None

"Reinstated F1" refers to the reinstatement I applied for and
got approved after I had a medical leave during my graduate
study. Throughout the entire period of my graduate study I have
never travelled outside of the US.

In conclusion, I believe my case is identical to the scenario
you have kindly pointed out. I am still anxious however about
whether or not I need to consult an immigration attorney to re-
confirm for my future references before my departure.

Thank you for your kindness and patience.

PT