Springsteen

Hi

Last Monday was day 89 of my US visit under the Waiver Scheme. I had consulted with an NY immigration lawyer whilst in the US who advised I would be able to cross into Canada to visit a relative, stay 3 weeks and then re-enter the US to have meetings with clients (I work for a UK company that has some US clients). He was wrong - the Canadian Border Patrol took a dim view and refused my entry. They handed me back to the US Border Patrol, who made it very clear I needed to leave ASAP or face the consequences.

I made every effort to comply, which involves scrambling onto a plane from Seattle back to Newark, where I was due to pick up a Virgin Atlantic flight to Heathrow that I had left semi-open.

Unfortunately this went awry, as the change fee Virgin needed was not able to be paid by a third party within 24 hours of departure. This was only discovered AFTER they had taken me off the plane and handed me back my bags. Needless to say I was totally distraught, but no-one was interested in my plight, they had either heard it all before, or felt I shouldn't have left it so damn late. I had to wait until the next flight (8am the following morning aka 91st day in the US) before money cleared and I could pay and leave.

Fair enough I guess, my own stupid fault etc, but I am panicking now as I very much want to re-enter the US soon, and want this entry to be via a B1 business visa, so that I can continue to develop the relations with our US clients, attend seminars and meetings and carry out research.

I asked customs at Newark what my options were and they said 'don't worry about it' which wasn't much help. This tallied with the VERY laid back entry at JFK 90 days previous, where they barely asked me anything. This is a stark contrast to the intense grilling I received at the Canadian border.

I asked Virgin to log all of the details of my attempted exit, which they did, I have a printed copy of this and I the name of the supervisor I spoke with. I am trying to build a case for having been 'en route' out on Day 90, but held up due to circumstances beyond my control (lack of communication regarding third party payments of fees on day of departure). My 'green card' was stamped on Day 90, and then again on Day 91 when I 'officially' left.

My questions for anyone that might be able to advise:

1. Is there any way I can send my documentation of this whole saga to an official party in the US? Or should I simply have to hand for when I re-enter?

2. Has anyone here ever had this happen or heard of similar situations (missed/delayed flights on Day 90 etc)? If so are there any mitigating circumstances and what evidence is required to assist?

3. Can anyone personally recommend a DECENT immigration lawyer in London that can help me further? I have the dual issue of needing help with my B1 prep, as well as overcoming this overstay nightmare.

Many thanks to anyone with useful info!
K

scrubbedexpat099

It used to be that there was no discretion, I member reading of a case where a lady who was basically retired and had a holiday home in Florida got bounced for similar reasons, delayed flight in her case put her over 90.

I am not that surprised Canada bounced you, they did not want you bounced by the Americans back to them when you tried to re-enter.

You can try for a B1, I would not assume you would get one, might want to leave it awhile before you do so, next year some time maybe.

Similarly if you want to try your chances on the VWP, they will have the story in their system.

J. J. Farrell

On Jul 30, 5:31 pm, Springsteen <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Hi
>
> Last Monday was day 89 of my US visit under the Waiver Scheme. I had
> consulted with an NY immigration lawyer whilst in the US who advised I
> would be able to cross into Canada to visit a relative, stay 3 weeks and
> then re-enter the US to have meetings with clients (I work for a UK
> company that has some US clients). He was wrong - the Canadian Border
> Patrol took a dim view and refused my entry. They handed me back to the
> US Border Patrol, who made it very clear I needed to leave ASAP or face
> the consequences.
>
> I made every effort to comply, which involves scrambling onto a plane
> from Seattle back to Newark, where I was due to pick up a Virgin
> Atlantic flight to Heathrow that I had left semi-open.
>
> Unfortunately this went awry, as the change fee Virgin needed was not
> able to be paid by a third party within 24 hours of departure. This was
> only discovered AFTER they had taken me off the plane and handed me back
> my bags. Needless to say I was totally distraught, but no-one was
> interested in my plight, they had either heard it all before, or felt I
> shouldn't have left it so damn late. I had to wait until the next flight
> (8am the following morning aka 91st day in the US) before money cleared
> and I could pay and leave.
>
> Fair enough I guess, my own stupid fault etc, but I am panicking now as
> I very much want to re-enter the US soon, and want this entry to be via
> a B1 business visa, so that I can continue to develop the relations with
> our US clients, attend seminars and meetings and carry out research.
>
> I asked customs at Newark what my options were and they said 'don't
> worry about it' which wasn't much help. This tallied with the VERY laid
> back entry at JFK 90 days previous, where they barely asked me anything.
> This is a stark contrast to the intense grilling I received at the
> Canadian border.
>
> I asked Virgin to log all of the details of my attempted exit, which
> they did, I have a printed copy of this and I the name of the supervisor
> I spoke with. I am trying to build a case for having been 'en route' out
> on Day 90, but held up due to circumstances beyond my control (lack of
> communication regarding third party payments of fees on day of
> departure). My 'green card' was stamped on Day 90, and then again on Day
> 91 when I 'officially' left.
>
> My questions for anyone that might be able to advise:
>
> 1. Is there any way I can send my documentation of this whole saga to
> an official party in the US? Or should I simply have to hand for
> when I re-enter?
>
> 2. Has anyone here ever had this happen or heard of similar situations
> (missed/delayed flights on Day 90 etc)? If so are there any mitigating
> circumstances and what evidence is required to assist?
>
> 2. Can anyone personally recommend a DECENT immigration lawyer in London
> that can help me further? I have the dual issue of needing help with
> my B1 prep, as well as overcoming this overstay nightmare.
>
> Many thanks to anyone with useful info!

I wouldn't bother trying to fight the overstay record - you did
overstay. I'd keep good documentation of exactly what happened so you
can show you were making a good effort to leave on time, but it went
wrong and you left as quickly as you could. I'd apply for a B-1, and
have this information available at the interview. Make sure you've a
clear statement from your employer of why they need you to visit the
USA on business, and the nature of the business you'll be doing.

Rete

Added to that is the fact that you were inside of the US for 89 days, attempted to leave so that you could return for another x number days.

It would appear to the agents at the US POE on the next attempt if it is not over 90 days from the last exit that you were living in the US and not using the VWP for the purpose for which it was intended ... a holiday trip.

scrubbedexpat099

or business, but OP seems to be using it to try and live in the US.

Ray

Here's a couple of London based US. Immigration lawyer
http://www.usvisalawgroup.com/
http://www.usvisalawyers.co.uk/

there are more .....

Sapphyre

On Jul 30, 12:31 pm, Springsteen <[email protected]>
wrote:
> my bags. Needless to say I was totally distraught, but no-one was
> interested in my plight, they had either heard it all before, or felt I
> shouldn't have left it so damn late. I had to wait until the next flight
> (8am the following morning aka 91st day in the US) before money cleared
> and I could pay and leave.

Yes they have, and if telling you "don't wait until the last minute"
would help you... I'd say that, but you are asking us after the fact,
not a week or so before to see if this is okay. I guess the one thing
that needs to be clear, is when attempting this, the Canadian (or
Mexican) government is under no obligation to either admit you, or
take away your I-94w to permit you to receive a new one to conduct
your business upon re-entry. From what you say, it sounds as though
Canada didn't want to be stuck removing you if the US wouldn't take
you back to catch your plane, or continue your business.

> Fair enough I guess, my own stupid fault etc, but I am panicking now as
> I very much want to re-enter the US soon, and want this entry to be via
> a B1 business visa, so that I can continue to develop the relations with
> our US clients, attend seminars and meetings and carry out research.

If you have actually overstayed, you will need the B1. Verify first
that you have actually overstayed.

> I asked customs at Newark what my options were and they said 'don't
> worry about it' which wasn't much help. This tallied with the VERY laid
> back entry at JFK 90 days previous, where they barely asked me anything.
> This is a stark contrast to the intense grilling I received at the
> Canadian border.

They don't care, you're already in the country. You will get that kind
of treatment if you come back, are deemed inadmissible for the VWP (or
chosen randomly for secondary and this is found out, and you
misrepresented yourself), you will find yourself in for some hours of
questioning, depending on how much time they want to spend with you.
I've known people to be refused and turned back in just an hour
(processing time for the fingerprints, photograph, detailed computer
entry, and all that fun stuff). I spent four hours at the border
because of my passenger before being allowed to proceed, twice now
I've been asked "what happened?" but another officer in attempt to see
if I'll be truthful about our being detained. Your best option is to
get the B1.

What happened at the Canadian border? Aside from them not wanting to
let you in, take your I-94w (to allow you to receive a new one for 90
days)? You're British, correct?

> I asked Virgin to log all of the details of my attempted exit, which
> they did, I have a printed copy of this and I the name of the supervisor
> I spoke with. I am trying to build a case for having been 'en route' out
> on Day 90, but held up due to circumstances beyond my control (lack of
> communication regarding third party payments of fees on day of
> departure). My 'green card' was stamped on Day 90, and then again on Day
> 91 when I 'officially' left.

This will probably help you explain what happened at the B1 interview,
when you have to tell them why you are no longer eligible for the VWP.

> 1. Is there any way I can send my documentation of this whole saga to
> an official party in the US? Or should I simply have to hand for
> when I re-enter?

Have in hand for the B1. Unless you want to risk it and try using the
VWP again. I wouldn't advise it. Keep in mind, if you do get into any
sticky situation and find yourself in secondary, your belongings may
be checked thoroughly. Do not bring all kinds of things and documents
with you that you don't want to be looked at with scrutinizing eyes.

> 2. Has anyone here ever had this happen or heard of similar situations
> (missed/delayed flights on Day 90 etc)? If so are there any mitigating
> circumstances and what evidence is required to assist?

It happens all the time (although maybe not by overstaying for one
day, I've read this story at least once every two weeks in this group
of people overstaying and not being eligible for the VWP). I can't
advise, I'm Canadian living in Canada. I don't have far to go if
turned back (three hours at most by car).

> Many thanks to anyone with useful info!

I can't be of much help... but I sympathize with your plight (as a
person who's had *stuff* happen when things were beyond my personal
control).

Best of luck.
S.

MDB

Personally, I would probably try for the B1 soon.

The VWP isn't perfect and there's far too many instances where exits are not recorded properly anyway, but that's no reason for complacency, but it does give you some hope.

My sister went to NY a few years back and on returning to the UK, the airline didn't take her I-94 off her, it stayed in her passport for the next year... She came out to visit me in Atlanta maybe two years after she was in NY on the VW and had no problem getting in, and officially on the system it should have looked like she never left in the first place. She didn't get quizzed either, and I was worried it might have gone against her... Maybe she was lucky?

At this point you *haven't* been refused entry into the US... I'm not sure if it asks if you've violated the VWP on the application form for the B1 so it's debatable on whether you'd be okay or not.

Like the others say, I'd have your case fully documented, 1. When you go to the embassy to apply for your visa and 2. When you go back to the US. Even if it was on the system that you stayed 91 days you would probably be shuffled off to secondary where you would need to prove your case and the fact you have a visa and credible documented evidence would hopefully go in your favour.

Bottom line is I still *think* you'll be okay, alright it wasn't the smartest idea to leave it to the last minute, but you weren't intentionally trying to break the law either... so, I wouldn't start sweating yet.

Good luck

Ray

You were required to have and be expected to use the
return ticket you came on... which is what you agreed to
by using the visa waiver...

So if there was an overstay it was intentional on your part ..

Rete

Don't believe you would be able to use the VWP for business if the business takes more than the length of the VWP. In that case you would need a work type visa.