Kocourkov

Got a question here....

In the process of getting a second passport here in Europe. Before the country where I live will give me one, they want me to prove that I can't giveup my first passport. Now, I have ABSOLUTELY no intention of EVER giving up my US citizenship. The easiest way to do this is to get a letter from the embassy stating that I cannot give up citizenship because I still have a claim to residency in the United States. The consulate here used to give these out, but is no claiming no knowledge of such a policy or letters. (Policy is on the State Department website.)

So here's the question, do consulates have to issue these letters or at least policy explanations, or can they simply tell American citizens to go fork themselves?

Zenas

I would find the nearest US embassy and discuss it there.

In Canada the passport says if anyone ever asks you to hand it over to get in touch with them, something to that effect.

Then you can figure out what your options are. By all means, I wouldn't hand it over. How do you ever intend to get back to the US?

Something doesn't sound right here.

JAJ

What State Department page are you referring to?

And what European country are you trying to get citizenship in?

Jeremy

Kocourkov

Here's the page, travel.state.gov/law/pr_renun.html, (see part of continued claim to residence in US). Would rather keep the country anonymous if that's OK....

I did contact the embassy, and was accused of trying to get them to help me get around local law, that they had no knowledge of the above-mentioned page/policy and that I should march right down and reliquish my citizenship. Quite rude and insulting in fact.

In process of getting documents for better half (not from EU either) so that if we want to go to the US for some time, we can. That's a different story.

Rich Wales

"Kocourkov" wrote:

> In the process of getting a second passport here in Europe.
> Before the country where I live will give me one, they want
> me to prove that I can't give up my first passport.

My assumption is that this sort of requirement would probably cover
only those situations where one's country of current citizenship
refuses to revoke citizenship -- either because the country simply
rejects the notion that its people have any right to give up their
citizenship, or perhaps because a person desiring to give up citi-
zenship would be subject to requirements others might consider to
be unreasonable -- such as a lengthy period of military service, or
exorbitant fees (possibly in the guise of repayment of the costs of
education or other social benefits).

My understanding is that, for example, Israel, Greece, Syria, and
Iran effectively have a policy of "once a citizen, always a citizen",
and that citizenship in those countries is, for practical purposes,
impossible to get rid of. I've heard conflicting stories as to
whether Russian citizenship can be relinquished in practice.

In some cases, it might be advisable to talk to knowledgeable immi-
gration lawyers (specializing in clients from one's old country),
and/or with support groups for expatriates / émigrés from that
country. The country's consular officials might very possibly cite
laws that theoretically permit renunciation of citizenship, but the
"facts on the ground" might very possibly be different from what the
laws say.

> Now, I have ABSOLUTELY no intention of EVER giving up my US
> citizenship.

A mere unwillingness to give up one's other citizenship(s) probably
would not qualify. And since I assume most consular officials of
other countries do know that it =is= normally possible to give up
US citizenship, I would assume they would be very skeptical of any
sort of letter from US officials claiming that it was not legally
possible for some given individual to renounce his US citizenship.

Now, I should hasten to say that since the original poster hasn't
said what country he's trying to get citizenship in, neither I nor
anyone else can say for sure if they really are strict about this
rule, or if it's just something on paper that their officials will
pay lip service to and then cheerfully ignore.

> The easiest way to do this is to get a letter from the embassy
> stating that I cannot give up citizenship because I still have
> a claim to residency in the United States.

AFAIK, the only thing US law says on this subject is that renuncia-
tion of US citizenship must be performed "before a diplomatic or
consular officer of the United States in a foreign state" -- i.e.,
one must be outside the US at the time, but there isn't anything
about residing in the US (or about having a "claim to residency" in
the US -- which claim would naturally become void anyway once one's
renunciation of citizenship had been approved).

Again, if the original poster would be willing to let us know which
country he is trying to get citizenship in, someone might be able to
make some more concrete comments about his situation.

Rich Wales [email protected] http://www.richw.org/dualcit/
*DISCLAIMER: I am not a lawyer, professional immigration consultant,
or consular officer. My comments are for discussion purposes only and
are not intended to be relied upon as legal or professional advice.

Rich Wales

"Zenas" wrote:

> In Canada the passport says if anyone ever asks you to hand
> it over to get in touch with them, something to that effect.

Keep in mind that an expression such as "giving up a passport" is
often used, in common speech, as referring to formally renouncing
citizenship in a country -- which, of course, means far more than
simply, literally surrendering one's passport.

My impression was that when the original poster was talking about
the country in question wanting him to "give up" his US passport
(or to show proof that he couldn't do this), what they meant was
that they wanted him to renounce his US citizenship (or else show
proof that he was somehow legally barred from doing this).

Rich Wales [email protected] http://www.richw.org/dualcit/
*DISCLAIMER: I am not a lawyer, professional immigration consultant,
or consular officer. My comments are for discussion purposes only and
are not intended to be relied upon as legal or professional advice.

Kocourkov

Would rather not say which country, but the local officials accept a letter from the embassy saying that you can't give up your citizenship, for whatever reason. The US State Dept will allow you to give it up under certain circumstances, but not when you claim to have a right of residence in the US. It's official policy, and all I need is a letter saying as much (plus maybe that it applies to me). Somehow though, the consulate refuses to do anything, and insults anyone who comes asking.

Time to contact my Congress critter I guess.