username07647

Hi. I would like to study at a community college in California sometime in 2012 or 2013. I've been doing some research into this and one of the requirements that I'm a little concerned about is proving ties to Australia (I realise this is a British forum, but it seems like the best place to ask, I hope).

I've just turned 25, don't own any property and have been staying with my parents for the last three years while studying at uni and now working. I expect to continue living with them up until leaving to study in the USA, and maybe six months to a year on returning depending on what kind of financial shape I'm in.

Do I need more ties? If so, how should I go about making them? I don't want to buy a place and it's unrealistic to rent a place and not live there for two years.

Also, I've never been to the USA before.

Thanks for your time in reading this.

EDIT: Oh, and: Would I be assessed as an F-1 or M-1 student? And would I be able to try my hand at the Hollywood audition circuit during breaks in the hope of being "discovered" and getting sponsorship (just think it would be a great experience to even try for fun).

scrubbedexpat099

They would be wondering what you would be doing at a Community College when you have a higher qualification anyway.

You actually said, I doubt if the Consulate would think that was a good reason.

MoshiMoshi

My husband and I are on J1 and J2 (non-immigrant) visas, and had to prove ties to our home country when applying. We weren't even living in our home country at that time, and owned no property, businesses, football teams or anything else concrete. The visa helpline were also extremely cagey about what might constitute evidence of home ties.

In the end, going from anecdotal experiences, we gathered together a big pile of stuff: letters from our parents saying we were welcome to come back and live with them at the end of the visa, photocopies of their passport pages and mortgage statements, photocopies of my UK mobile phone account and bank account statements, receipts from the frequent flights home we'd taken whilst living in Germany, and an extensive set of photos from our wedding in England and other family events. The latter were carefully labeled with everyone's names, locations and connection to us, and took ages because I have 35,000 close relatives. We brought all this to our visa interview.

Naturally, the official asked for none of it.

OFFICIAL: Ok, your J visas are approved.
ME: Don't you want to [pushes pile of paperwork] see our wedding photos?
HUSBAND: [laughs nervously, pulling me away from desk]

But, I stress: THIS WAS JUST OUR EXPERIENCE. The consular official could have asked to see all of our evidence, and could have deemed it laughably insufficient -- it's all done case-by-case, so prepare everything you can. For all I know you may be in for a rough ride, given that, as Boiler notes, you already have a degree but are applying to a community college, which might well be construed as a strategical 'easy' route in to the States.

I'm not fully informed about those student categories, but I have a vague feeling you may be restricted to x hours of work on campus -- your institution should be able to clarify this. Make very sure your institution is properly accredited with the immigration authorities and has plenty of experience with bringing international students over.

crg

I'm glad you emphasized that it was just your experience. A married couple going for a J-1 (where both can work) would likely have a much easier time proving ties than a nontraditional student who is busting back to community college after already attending several years of higher education elsewhere.

MoshiMoshi

I DON'T USE CAPS LOCK LIGHTLY.

Ok; just want to add our experience to those available for applicants considering how to prove 'intent to return' or 'home ties'. Official guidance on this can be scarce or intentionally vague. You're entirely right to stress that every situation is different, even within the same visa category.

!!!! for emphasis. OP please note.

username07647

First, thanks for the responses Boiler, MoshiMoshi, and crg.

I don't have a higher qualification. I was at uni here for three semesters and only passed a few units. Due to my results transcript being in such bad shape I would likely need to do other study before a uni would let me back in anyway, to prove that I was capable of completing the course. Does this information make a difference?

My only ties to Australia that I can think of are:

• All my family are Australians and live in Australia.
• My parents house, where I am living
• My dog
• My material possessions
• My job (but I'd have to leave that anyway)

That's it.

My primary motivations for studying in the USA are:

• I want to return to study
• I've always wanted to visit the USA, especially California
• I like how American colleges/unis usually have a strong emphasis on sports, and I would like to participate in that

From what I've read so far, it seems like the consul's level of scrutiny and decision is almost at random. Just trying to get any possible insight into my own situation.

Sally Redux

I don't know if it matters, but your primary motivation doesn't appear to be study.

Bob

I'd have thought your biggest hurdle would be showing you have the funds to cover tuition and living expenses without the need for real work, as F1 would only allow 20 hours of on campus work, after the first semester.

MoshiMoshi

I wouldn't say it was random -- but it's very much done by personal circumstances, and since USCIS will never say 'doing x/y/z guarantees you'll get a visa', there has to be a lot of educated guesswork and research about what you, personally, can do to increase your chances of a successful application.

The burden of proof about the intent to return home, or otherwise honour the terms of the visa, lies with the applicant. You can rarely prove 100% that you'll go home -- after all, people sell houses, close businesses, get remarried -- so what degree of 'proof' is acceptable depends on the situation. My husband and I were getting a visa for a pretty typical purpose (academia) and we had a relatively easy time of it.

Would we have had to work harder to 'prove' our intent to return if we were from a 2nd or 3rd world country? -- Probably, judging from anecdotes.

What if the consular official at our interview had just been in a foul mood? -- Certainly, he could have demanded a lot more from us; who knows if he would.

What if we'd come to the interview looking edgy/desperate/disheveled? -- Maybe our application would've got more scrutiny, even though the facts of it hadn't changed.

It's not random -- there are just a lot of variables (including, in the case of students, finance). Definitely consult with your potential college about this. They should have guidelines on how to maximize your chances, and experience of students who've successfully done so. If not, then I wouldn't feel comfortable making any financial commitment to them.

username07647

That's not correct. Basically, this is my thought process:

Ok, I want to go back to study... I also want to visit America for at least a year... Did some research and it turns out I can afford community college easily (thought it'd would be out of my league financially)... It's been a long-term goal of mine to play gridiron in the USA at acollege level (just for one or two seasons would fulfill my goal) but I didn't think it would be possible till now (had totally given up on the idea a few years ago)... It has always been a "regret" of mine that I would never experience the USA college system, which seems to be so much different to here (more sporting emphasis, more social emphasis, better architecture, etc.)... And, I think an American education would look good on my resume.

Why not kill all those birds with one stone, rather than waste time and pay more individually?

Not a problem. I have enough money to pay for the course and support myself for two years according to the college's recommendations. If I decide to continue on to a Bachelor's degree I'll need to wait for another couple of years to save the money required for that (the community college's Associate degree will give me up to two years off a full degree, depending on the area, which is yet another reason to go).

How the consul would view my situation is my only concern.

Sally Redux

How much good is an associate degree going to do you? Community college is not like the ones you see in the movies, I think you're getting a bit mixed up if you think they have great social life, architecture and football teams.

No offence to community colleges which do a great job, btw.

username07647

In terms of future study, an Associate degree would allow me to get back into uni (here or in the USA). In terms of work, an American education of any sorts would look good to most Australian employers. In terms of the social/living experience, you can't tell me that studying in LA or Santa Monica isn't a world away from St Albans or Footscray in Australia, and that it wouldn't be a important and interesting experience in my life.

As for football.. I'm not expecting to walk onto a top level college team, or anywhere near that. I just want to play the game in America against Americans. I couldn't care less about the level of play. I might not even make the side, but it's trying the counts and not having to regret not trying. At the very least I should be able to participate in track, which I compete at a high level in.


I was reading that the consul will take into account a young person's lack of ties to their home country. Will I be a "young person" at 26-27, when I plan to go there?

Bob

Aye, but community colleague isn't a big college, that's her point. I don't know what the equivalent of a CoFE in Oz is, but that's basically what this is, Sixth form school. It's basically getting your A-levels and worth nothing outside of the US really unless you want to get back into uni properly, to get a full degree.

username07647

Getting back into uni is exactly what I want to do. Community college is equivalent to TAFE here in Australia, where I studied for two years (at a lower level than an associate degree/diploma) and then taught for another two years. From what I have seen so far the campuses of the bigger community colleges are far superior to TAFE's, not to mention the attraction that places like LA, Santa Monica, Venice, etc, etc. have to an international visitor.

MoshiMoshi

My awareness of community colleges here is strictly second-hand; for what it's worth, I get the idea community colleges are more about functional qualifications and less about 'college experience'. Lots of younger students (18+)* coming directly from high school (either uncertain whether an expensive 4-year university degree is for them, or planning to transfer after a couple of years' good value tuition), and then lots of adults returning to update or widen their credentials. How accurate is this? Maybe someone with direct knowledge can correct me. It just doesn't sound like the (stereo)typical American college system experience, with its sporting/social aspects which are so often portrayed as 'rites of passage' etc. Maybe you don't care about this; I just mention it because you bring up the 'USA college system'.

(*I know there's no shortage of 18-year-olds at university, either.)

None of this whatsoever is negative -- it just sounds slightly different to one aspect of your expectations. I'm sure, should visa/finances align, you could have a productive time at a community college here, especially if the credits you accrue will transfer. And there's a lot to be said for the location.

You might want to check out this forum:
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/community-colleges/

One of the current featured discussions is about the difference between community college and (university) college. There's a forum section for international students in the US -- might be some useful visa info there:
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/...onal-students/