ukintexas

Hi all

Am trying to get some advice regarding what needs to be done to protect my LPR status, if I and my family need to split time between US and UK. I'm going to give some key facts here, as I want to give you the full picture:

• L1A arrival August 2005
• Me, hubby, two kids - all UK citizens
• Converted/changed (whatever terminology is!) to LPRs in February 2009
• Occupation - company owner/Managing Director - business operates throughout the US, and also has a UK customer base that I'm looking to expand
• Reason for spending extended time in UK - to build UK arm of business (whilst continuing to steer US existing) and also on a personal level to spend time with my 86 year old father while I still can
• Travel ideas: I would be back in the US at least every other month for a few days, as well as for extended stays with my husband and children during the English School holidays
• Continuing ties to US: Business, Salary, Tax Return, Property (although we will rent it out)
• Ties to the UK: Likely rent or purchase property, kids will be in school there, hubby might work and get paid there (although to protect his own LPR, he would also continue to receive salary through the US business and therefore file Tax return in the US)
  Definitely personally homesick for lots of different reasons, but am in the fortunate (and disavantaged at the moment!) position to have my own business that I can control from wherever I may be - this is both a personally driven decision and a valid business one

Hope I've give you guys enough to let me know your thoughts. Thanks in advance. I'm interested to see what you feel from the experience you have.

ian-mstm

You can't have it both ways. Either you live in the US and visit in the UK, or you live in the UK and visit in the US. You can do it for a while... but not for long. I guess it all boils down to how much you want to protect your US LPR status. Once you've made that decision... the rest will fall into place.

Ian

ukintexas

Thanks for that Ian, but I do actually know of a number of people that do it - working the UK for whatever reason (sometimes projects as part of their corporate job) and travel back and forth every few weeks. Someone I know has done that for the last 3 years and never had any issues (obviously following all of the legal requirements). That's what I find so confusing about the issue. Appreciate your input though.

Noorah101

You might want to have a consultation with an immigration attorney who has tried cases of "abandonment". Make sure the lawyer has done this...and knows what he's talking about...not many have this experience.

You walk a fine line by doing this type of thing.

One thing to keep in mind is applying for a Re-Entry Permit. It is just one more step to demonstrate that you do not intent to abandon your PR status, even though you mght be spending more time outside the USA than inside.

But there are no guarantees, of course.

Rene

ukintexas

Hi there, I knew I'd forget something! I did talk to my immigration Attorney who has told me about the re-entry permits and the always rather grey lines between abandonment and time outside versus inside etc. I looked at some of the other threads on this as well and thought I'd be a little more specific in my post (with regard to time out, kids schooling/housing etc) to see if giving a fuller picture provided some clearer answers. I suppose what I'm looking for on here are people that might have actually done the whole in and out scenario, and/or advice from people such as those already responding that have legal experience of it. Thanks again everyone.

A I

Do you have an estimate of days you would spend in UK and in US, say, next year ?

I'd say if you were in the US more than half the time it would be hard to argue you had abandoned your residency, since you spent most of your time in the US.

Do you plan to have this need for only a year or two, or do you see this as a 5-10 year plan ? If you continue to return so frequently, the Re-Entry permit may not be for you, since it i supposed to be used for departures of 1 year or more.

===I'm not a lawyer, and don't even play one on TV or the radio, but if it was me, and it was only for less than 3 years, I'd do it, and here's why:===

If you keep a valid residence in the US, along with filing taxes, etc and return every 180 days or less, all indications I know of are that you will be keeping your Residency without issue.

This is on the USCIS website:
http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/usc...0048f3d6a1RCRD

As a general rule, any person who is not a U.S. citizen or a non-citizen U.S. national is subject to immigration inspection each time the person travels to the United States from any place outside the United States. Even an alien who has already been admitted as a lawful permanent resident (LPR) is subject to immigration inspection, if the alien has been absent from the United States for more than 180 days, or if the alien has engaged in certain conduct that makes the alien inadmissible, such as the commission of certain crimes, attempting to return without inspection, or other reasons.

Seems most of the time, you are not even subject to "immigration inspection" - sounds like they would need a GOOD reason to bother you on your way in.

I would guess "other reasons" could mean the sharp inspector suspects you of living abroad and coming over only to keep the residency alive. That's were your company, Tax filings, and local address come into play to disprove that unfavorable assumption of the keen and unfriendly inspector, should you be questioned on a return trip, after 4 consecutive 180 day absences followed by 3 days in the US....

Regardless of what anybody suggests, if you don't have your residency in the US, you are at risk (even if it's minimal), and nobody can tell you exactly how you will be evaluated on your return trips. (I would still take he risk after what I have read if I would be resuming more than 50% US time within 2-3 years, and traveled to the US at least once every 5 months or so)

Most everyone has a opinion- whether paid or not, but ultimately you are the one that bears the risk. for this reason I like to research these matters for myself, even after paying for professional advice.

ukintexas

Thanks A I - appreciated - and kudos on the "tv lawyer" bit too
TBH I'm thinking that it would be a couple of year deal in terms of the business requirements and then the situation with my dad as he gets older. I believe at that stage we'll be best placed to make that decision as to where the business needs me, and what the family needs are as well. I've also asked my attorney what we would need to do should we wish to change from LPRs to citizens at some stage as I appreciate that would make things alot easier for me in terms of continuing to have entry into the US indefinitely.
I too like to do lots of research on things, and that's why I've posted on here to see what I get from people that aren't my paid attorney! He might just be throwing processes at me for $$$$'s - no offence meant to any attorney's on here - I actually really like mine Again, thanks A I - appreciated.

scrubbedexpat099

Sounds like there is no real downside, so why not just try it and see?

ian-mstm

Well, becoming a USC would certainly make it much easier to move back and forth without issue. Be aware that there are 3 components to eligibility - 5 years as a PR, and both a physical presence and continuous residency requirement. Any absense from the US over 6 months stops the clock for continuous residency. Any absence over 1 year resets the clock. For the physical presence requirement, you need to actually be in the US for a specific number of months (out of those 5 years) to become eligible. So, if you go ahead with your plan, be aware of these restrictions and plan accordingly. Best of luck to you!

Ian

ukintexas

Thank you everyone - valid points made and more information for me to chew over - much appreciated.

Folinskyinla

Hi:

"Obviously???" ROFL I needed that.

When it comes to CBP port inspectors, it pays to remember the old adage of "dice have no memory."

Actually, from the basic description you give, it looks doable. But consult with an attorney experienced in abandonment law. You may want to read Matter of Kane 15 I&N Dec. 258 (BIA 1975) and Matter of Huang 19 I&N Dec. 749 (BIA 1988).

After reading Kane and Huang, I recommend strongly that you then read them again. I learn something new every time I read those cases. BTW, there is a little item in Kane that might be of interest.

BTW, you are playing with fire here. Seeing a lawyer experienced in the law of abandonment [and by that I mean having tried at least one abandonment case] is a damn good idea.

ukintexas

Hi Folinskyinla
I'm glad I put a smile on your face . Probably half my problem in that I do think it's obvious that people comply with what's required and that's why I end up tying myself in knots trying not to put a foot wrong! Appreciate your input, and will read up on your suggestions. Am also going to ask my attorney about his actual experience in relation to abandonment cases as you and others have suggested as I had not done that specifically, presuming (albeit incorrectly I guess) that immigration experience itself covers all eventualities. Thank you for taking the time to provide me with references to read.

Bob

Thing is, people can be temporarily sent aboard for work, or kids going back home to university.

It's a bit different when it is your own business and you are sending yourself.

This is definitely not something in the realms of a forum type question though.

Folinskyinla

Hi:

The law of abandonment is an esoteric sub-specialty in immigration law. I've tried maybe six of these -- over three decades and I have to "reinvent the wheel" every time for the government lawyer and the IJ. So, sad to say, many many excellent immigration lawyers really don't know the area all that well. My test on having "tried" a case [at least one] is a guarantee that the lawyer does know the area. However, the opposite is not necessarily true.

ukintexas

Not sure what you mean here Bob.