bjohn

Hello

I was arrested for affray in the UK (basically a fight involving a small number of people in the street). The police did their investigation took no further action against me. No charge, no conviction.

I understand the US Embassy website states that all arrests and convictions require an interview for a holiday visa. Is this absolutely required by law?

This seems to me to be just a way for an official to determine whether the arrest or conviction was of moral turpitude. If its not of moral turpitude then visa is granted. As far as I can tell the equivalent arrest in the US would be Public Disorder which appears in nearly all cases to be non moral turpitude.

Understanding this is a grey area, would people recommend I get a visa or travel on the visa waiver ticking the "No" to arrests and or convictions to crimes that are moral turpitude? I have a flight booked in about 4 weeks and it appears a visa will not be ready by then.

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/86942.pdf

Regards
B

dbj1000

You've booked the flight and there isn't time to get a visa, so you've already made your decision, and would like validation here. You probably won't get validation.

Have you considered starting by reading the "Crimes Involving Moral Turpitude - A Broad Overview" thread at the top of this page? It would probably help answer your questions about the crime itself.

ian-mstm

Oh dear... you've fallen into the trap. You have assumed that what the US Embassy website states, is the law.


Then it seems you have your answer.

Ian

Folinskyinla

Hi:

This is an excellent question which was recently discussed -- http://britishexpats.com/forum/showt...ghlight=affray

In addition to the wiki, I suggest you read the threat all the way through. One post was later corrected by a knowledeable poster.

Also, you posted an excellent list on what types of crimes are and are not crimes involving moral turpitude. I suggest strongly that you read it.

Your life, your decision. Do read the back of an I-94W carefully.

bjohn

Thanks for the responses

That previous post is a good read. General consensus seems to think that affray is not of moral turpitude. Need a good US lawyer to determine that one I guess. Any suggestions?

Yes I booked the flight assuming the rule of thumb "innocent until proven guilty" as in most countries. As I was not guilty and ONLY arrested and travel everywhere else in Europe I made an assumption here.

So your saying the US embassy website is not law? that is my question?

Many Thanks
B

Folinskyinla

Hi:

Of course the Embassy website is not law.

ajb24

The trick is in the wording isnt it. It is worded arrested AND/OR convicted not arrested AND convicted. If this recent agreement is to be believed about U.S having access to uk police records then u could run into trouble. <snipped misinformation>

bjohn

I still don't know whether to answer Yes or No to the following. "Have you ever been arrested or convicted for an offense or crime involving moral turpitude." - is "Affray" (which was proved I did not commit) a crime involving moral turpitude and by answering "No" would a border guard think differently if an arrest showed up on the database?

Calling the US embassy is no good. At a charge of £1.20 per/min a girl in Scotland advises you that she cannot make a decision if a crime involves moral turpitude and you must make an appointment for an interview - in January.

Tough call this one. I'm thinking play safe, change the flight ££££ pay the visa £££££, spend the day in the US embassy ...... yawn.....

Regards
B

Folinskyinla

Hi:

You hit the nail on the head -- what counts? The law or what the CBP guy or gal at the Port of Entry thinks?

Just out of idle curiosity -- how did you prove you didn't do it? I wasn't aware of a British procedure for this.

bjohn

Good point let me just clarify. My poor wording here. Fight in the street. I was trying to break it up. Got punched in the nose by someone in the fight. Fell to the ground. Police arrived, arrested everyone they found to be involved. Police conducted interviews - I did not admit guilt. Police viewed closed circuit TV footage and took no further action against those they felt were not committing an "Affray". So really the police proved it.

Good point on your last comment about the CBP guy or gal at the port of entry. Their decision is final and could be the nail in the coffin.

Folinskyinla

Hi:

A little point on the VWP refusal -- it is just a refusal of admission and is NOT a formal removal. In other words, you get turned away, lose your airfare and will need to apply for a visa.

bjohn

What if the CBP person decided "Affray" was a crime of moral turpitude? That could mean a ban for life right???

ajb24

It would mean the loss of the VWP for you for life that is almost certain, But I highly doubt it would mean u being banned for life from entering the U.S, it would be a simple case of applying for the relevant waiver and then doing tourist visa everytime u want to go to America, Since there was no conviction I highly doubt u would be found inadmissible. You dont have a previous record beyond the affray do you and the affray record hardly equals a felony under U.S law, was it GBH with Intent, Wounding, Attempted murder on the otherhand u might have a serious problem but I dont see anything to be too worried about

Tracym

Where on earth are you getting this information from?

If they decided he lied, it could be an actual problem. But, as he didn't really do anything wrong, I do think it could be sorted somehow.

SIMPLE case of applying for the relevant waiver? doesn't seem simple to me.

A person is not required to apply for a tourist visa every time they travel.

You cannot get a waiver then a visa - you apply for a visa first, then a waiver.

Please don't post such information when you have no idea really - you could mislead someone and really cause them a problem.

ian-mstm

Really? Do you think people who staff the US Embassy know the law? Don't be absurd!

Ian