clemouk

I have a couple of minor offences from when I was younger, drink driving and affray, but have travelled to Chicago (x2) and New York in the last 7 years but always lied on the VWP based on advice from others - also some ignorance and naivety on my part.

I now need to travel to Austin, TX for a couple of weeks but don't know what to do. As this is work related and in light of the above I am leanding towards getting a formal Visa.

However, when I apply are they likely to refuse considering my previous indiscretions on the VWP??

Time factore is not important, if it takes a few weeks to resolve so be it I can go next year but my concern is that I will be refused. Any guidance??

Thanks
Clemo

Tracym

You need to find out if your offences were CIMT (crimes involving moral turpitude) or not. Have a read of this thread.

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=559272

If they are not CIMT, you did not lie on the form, you told the truth. Use the VWP or a visa, whichever is a appropriate. If you're just attending meetings and such, the VWP is fine.

If you did actually lie... I don't know.

clemouk

Well I guess reading that article, affray and drinkin driving both fall within the category of CIMT. The sentence was simply a fine and compensation order, no custodial involved and offences were over 8 years ago. Does this mean I would never be allowed to enter the US?

Tracym

Drunk driving has apparently at times been called a CIMT and also NOT a CIMT. I believe I have seen it posted on the forum that a "simple" DUI is usually not a CIMT (can't remember where, you'd have to search the forum).

Sorry, I do not know what 'affray' is? (I'm a yank) Could you possibly explain that?

It sounds like your offenses were minor, and could likely not be a bar to admission to the US. The problem will come if you did indeed lie.

ian-mstm

The basis for the lie is irrelevant. Lying on a US immigration form can trigger a permanent ban from the US. Tracy is right... you need to find out whether your offenses were CIMT.


How old were you at the time? The punishment you received isn't nearly as important as what the *maximum* punishment could have been... something else you'll need to find out.


Not necessarily... but a consult with an immigration attorney would be advised prior to taking any further actions.

Ian

clemouk

I think the maximum sentence for affray (basically defined as fighting or threatening behaviour, assault) is 2 years in a crown court. I was 21 when this happened.

As I have previously lied on the VWP I think I need to get proper legal advice from an immigration attorney as suggested.

Thanks for all the advice.
Clemo

Folinskyinla

Hi:

????

Why do you disagree with Mr. Fong? I think his article is pretty accurate. Apparently, you do not.

clemouk

I don't believe I have disagreed with the article, could you please explain?

My understanding is that the offences committed would be classed as CIMT and therefore prevent me from entering the US under the VWP.

Cheers,
Clemo

Tracym

I think perhaps your offenses are not CIMT. I think that's what Mr. F is alluding to.

But asking a lawyer is a great idea. Personally, I'd consider asking Mr. Fong. Or Mr. Folinsky. If you officially consuted either of them, I suspect you could get a good opinion from them.

JCraigFong

It's hard to know whether the drink driving was a CIMT, but if it was "merely" that, and no more, I am inclined ON FIRST BLUSH to say this is probably NOT a CIMT. I would, however, if I was going to be giving official "advice," consult to see what the potential sentence COULD HAVE BEEN in the UK before committing myself.

Next, age is important. If the drink driving was under age 18, you may be OK under the exception for juveniles. If, as you say, the affray was when you were 21, you'd be on the hook. Having said this, however, it is NOW clear to me that "affray" is CIMT. It seems to me to parallel the US' disorderly conduct, or maybe brawling in public, or POSSIBLY simple assault.

--J Craig Fong
Los Angeles, CA

Ezequiel

I hope this help you.

Quote:

<<<The list of crimes of moral turpitude that are reasons for exclusion from the United States is also quite detailed. ( List of Crimes of Moral Turpitude ) The most common types of crimes involving moral turpitude that would make you inadmissible are murder, manslaughter, rape, theft, bribery, forgery, aggravated battery, prostitution, and fraud.>>>

<<< At this time, driving under the influence, breaking and entering, disorderly conduct and simple assault are not considered crimes that make a person inadmissible to the United States.>>>


You can read it from the Homeland security website.

http://cbp.gov/xp/cgov/travel/id_vis...s_can_info.xml

Folinskyinla

My friend:

We'll discuss this when you are over your jet-lag. Welcome home!

Tracym

Interestingly, if I go into that link, and click to get the list of CIMT, it goes to an unrelated page They are determined to not have an actual list apparently.

J - I am a little confused. I thought disorderly conduct and even simple assault were generally NOT CIMT (as indicated in the above link)? Given that link, I would have concluded that affray was not CIMT.

I certainly don't mean to argue with you, but I am curious as to how you came to your determination of the affray?

JCraigFong

TYPO! TYPO! TYPO!

My bad. I apologize. Stuart is right: I should not have tried to give responses while still jet-lagged.

The above should read "...however, it is NOT clear to me that 'affray' is CIMT...."

Repeat: It does NOT -- NOT -- seem to me that affray would be CIMT.

I apologize if I confused or alarmed people.

--J Fong
Los Angeles, CA

Tracym

Thanks J. Welcome back from wherever you were

OK, to the original poster - you very well might be fine. You could retain one of the suggested attorneys (or another one of your choice) and give them the details to be relatively certain.