My rant of the day...

Old Jul 6th 2009, 6:31 pm
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Default My rant of the day...

I apologise in advance...

Considering the amount of difficulties, that we British Citizens generally face going to the US to work temporarily, live, settle or whatever .... why is it that we hand things on a plate to Americans and Canadians? I am currently in the process of trying to look for a grant/scholarship/whatever to help me fund study in France and being an EU member, you would think that this was simple...It is to a certain extent. Firstly, you have to be studying at a UK university that has a link with a EU University in order for you to go to study in EU. Secondly, once you have a place, you go via the ERASMUS program that gives you a grant to cover expenses. Thirdly, this grant is not available if you just want to go and study in France (or anywhere in the EU) without being a student of a UK University first! The student maintenance loans that we use in the UK to cover living expenses here cannot be used in Europe. Most EU Countries including France and Germany do not charge any tuition fees to majority of higher education students, including non-EU students!

During my search for grants etc, I have come across NUMEROUS grant and scholarship opportunities that are available as mobility programs "between the European Community and the United States of America, in the field of higher education and vocational education and Training. The aim is to promote understanding and interaction between the peoples of the European Union and the US, including broader knowledge of their languages, cultures and institutions, and to improve the quality of the human resource development of both the EU and the US." (!!!!)

Basically, Americans and Canadians (I found some for Canadians) can come to the EU, with all expenses covered, through 'bi-lateral agreements' and of course if they want to go to France or Germany, they don't have to worry about tuition fees, as that is covered! Other EU countries charge minimal tuition! So, me being an EU-British Citizen will have much difficulty in getting funding to help me with my living expenses whilst I study in Europe, unless I am American and I can get a special scholarship! This is not fair! What is the whole point of the EU when all the benefits of it are offered to anyone (North Americans!) and we get nothing in return (i.e. a free enough ride also, in being able to settle in North America, if you wanted to, with relatively no hassle).

Here we all are in this forum worried about having to get a Visa just to travel to US for a visit (if you cannot, for whatever reason travel on VWP) and even on the VWP, you still have to go through ESTA in order to sit on a US bound plane - they make it hard for you, as everyone here knows, to get a Visa without the heavy bureaucracy just to work there even for a short time! So much for the flippin' American Dream.... More like the free giving away EU dream of taking and not giving. By the way, the UK reportedly contributes about £43 Million per day towards the EU... to pave way for Americans and other non-EU's to get a free ride. Its funny how the EU and the UK, for that matter puts in place these 'cultural exchange' programs that are readily available to US Citizens, practically without restrictions - whereas the US do not really have any 'cultural exchange' program and if they do, its in the form of a J1 Visa that is very limited, doesn't offer you any type of funding and if you DO get any American funding (which is practically non-existent and is only for certain students/industries) whilst being on the J1 Visa - you have to return to your country and stay there for two years, unless you get a waiver!! So much for the EU/UK-US 'strong ties with our cousins across the pond' - these 'ties' are only one sided!

RANT OVER!

Last edited by Pashtun; Jul 6th 2009 at 6:37 pm.
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Old Jul 6th 2009, 7:23 pm
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Default Re: My rant of the day...

What a load. I'm an American who attended the University of Manchester for graduate school. Not only did I pay 4 times as much as any EU student, I wasn't eligible for the vast majority of scholarships. Yes, there was a SINGLE North American student scholarship, but that was the only option for funding. And if you think that American Universities should give EU citizens a break in tuition, I dare you to look at what they charge American citizens first.

Moreover, once my course was done and my visa expired I had absolutely no recourse to stay in the UK, despite an advanced education from an English institution. And trust me, given that my then boyfriend/now husband is English, I explored every possible avenue (and you guessed it, we had to go through the fun of a k-1 visa to get him over here).

I'm sorry that you're having trouble moving to the US, I really am, but people need to realize that immigration/university funding is a bitch everywhere, and that everywhere prioritizes their own citizens. Period.
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Old Jul 6th 2009, 7:48 pm
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Default Re: My rant of the day...

9/11
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Old Jul 6th 2009, 8:03 pm
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Default Re: My rant of the day...

Originally Posted by LilInIl View Post
What a load. I'm an American who attended the University of Manchester for graduate school. Not only did I pay 4 times as much as any EU student, I wasn't eligible for the vast majority of scholarships. Yes, there was a SINGLE North American student scholarship, but that was the only option for funding. And if you think that American Universities should give EU citizens a break in tuition, I dare you to look at what they charge American citizens first.
I am sorry. I wasn't referring to the UK. I was referring to mainland Europe (Spain/France/Germany Etc...)

Moreover, once my course was done and my visa expired I had absolutely no recourse to stay in the UK, despite an advanced education from an English institution. And trust me, given that my then boyfriend/now husband is English, I explored every possible avenue (and you guessed it, we had to go through the fun of a k-1 visa to get him over here).
I think I am misunderstanding. Do you mean to say that you have explored many avenues for you to stay in the UK, or for your husband to go to the US as your husband/spouse? Because as far as I know, in regards to the USA, there arn't 'many' legal avenues to explore. Only the K-1 Visa is available, as you mentioned. If you wanted to stay the the UK, being married to a UK citizen it would eventually have allowed you to get ILR, after paperwork and process being complete. From what I know from my American friends and from what I have read on this forum - it is reletiveley (note. I say the word reletively) easy for American Citizens to stay in the UK especially after marrying a UK Citizen.

I'm sorry that you're having trouble moving to the US, I really am
Well this point, in all honesty isn't very true. I am not 'moving' to the US. I plan in the future to go to the USA, to study a subject that is not available eleswhere in the western world, apart from one institution in France. I will find it generally easier, language wise, for me to study in the USA rather then France - where I have to learn a whole new language at an academic level. This is the only reason why I want to go to the USA - and I am finding ways NOT to, by studying in France instead, but then I come across obstacles such as funding not being available to an EU Citizen to study in France, unless I am a student at a UK University that has a link with the University in France that I want to go to. I, as I have said have found a few US-EU agreements in place for Americans to study in Europe with less restrictive rules. If you like, I can direct you, if you are interested in studying in mainland Europe....

but people need to realize that immigration/university funding is a bitch everywhere, and that everywhere prioritizes their own citizens. Period.
As you put it, it is a B*tch everywhere, however how much of an easier ride one gets makes a whole load of difference. What I mean by that is red tape. In the US, for example for someone to work there temporarily the employer has to sponsor you and prove there is no US Citizen able to do the job. Once the worker is in the country after going through the hassle of getting the Visa in the first place, he now needs to go through the hassle of renewing his time-limited Visa OR go through the hated process of getting a Green Card which takes years and years... all you need to do is read threads in this forum. From what I have seen, non-EU/UK Citizens who enter this country under a work permit have a relatively good chance of staying here and to apply for ILR. I know many people who have come here on Temp work permits and then applied for ILR, sometimes without needing the help of an employer! This is the difference in bureaucracy between US and UK immigration as far as my experience goes.
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Old Jul 6th 2009, 8:03 pm
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Default Re: My rant of the day...

Originally Posted by malj View Post
9/11
True. Very true. Shame that those who actually are not terrorists or those who actually want to make efforts to counter-terrorism cannot get in!
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Old Jul 6th 2009, 8:06 pm
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Default Re: My rant of the day...

There's another option to erasmus, but I can't remember what it is called...


anyway, if what your doing post grad, get a post grad student loan, can get a bargain for a loan that way, much better than a government laugh.
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Old Jul 6th 2009, 8:07 pm
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I could be wrong, I haven't looked into this (no need to, really) out of curiosty, can't Americans use federal financial Aid to help get with costs associated with study overseas? I am not talking about tuition costs, I am talking about living expenses. I am sure my many American friends who are students here use something like that to help pay for living expenses whilst studying in London. See, we cannot use UK Student Loans to study in the US or even in Europe!
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Old Jul 6th 2009, 8:09 pm
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Default Re: My rant of the day...

Originally Posted by Pashtun View Post
I think I am misunderstanding. Do you mean to say that you have explored many avenues for you to stay in the UK, or for your husband to go to the US as your husband/spouse? Because as far as I know, in regards to the USA, there arn't 'many' legal avenues to explore. Only the K-1 Visa is available, as you mentioned. If you wanted to stay the the UK, being married to a UK citizen it would eventually have allowed you to get ILR, after paperwork and process being complete. From what I know from my American friends and from what I have read on this forum - it is reletiveley (note. I say the word reletively) easy for American Citizens to stay in the UK especially after marrying a UK Citizen.
Aye, and getting a work visa in the UK is a piece of piss to get for anyone with decent qualifications/skills.
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Old Jul 6th 2009, 8:10 pm
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Default Re: My rant of the day...

Originally Posted by Pashtun View Post
I am sorry. I wasn't referring to the UK. I was referring to mainland Europe (Spain/France/Germany Etc...)



I think I am misunderstanding. Do you mean to say that you have explored many avenues for you to stay in the UK, or for your husband to go to the US as your husband/spouse? Because as far as I know, in regards to the USA, there arn't 'many' legal avenues to explore. Only the K-1 Visa is available, as you mentioned. If you wanted to stay the the UK, being married to a UK citizen it would eventually have allowed you to get ILR, after paperwork and process being complete. From what I know from my American friends and from what I have read on this forum - it is reletiveley (note. I say the word reletively) easy for American Citizens to stay in the UK especially after marrying a UK Citizen.
As it is for most any world citizen to become a PR based on marriage to a USC. There is absolutely no difference, at least, in that regards between the US, the UK and Canadian immigration for spouses.

She is talking about immigrating to the UK, not as a spouse of a UKC, but as an intending immigrant with a secondary education received from a university in the UK.

Nothing is relatively easy anywhere in the world in terms of immigration.

Plus from your original post you do want to Immigrate to the US. Your plan is to come here for a language course and then find employment at the university where you studied as an assistant or full professor.

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Old Jul 6th 2009, 8:12 pm
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Originally Posted by Bob View Post
There's another option to erasmus, but I can't remember what it is called....
I think you are talking about the Leonardo one. The Leonardo Da Vinci Programme. Its is not for academic programmes, only vocational programmes/training/IT based etc.


anyway, if what your doing post grad, get a post grad student loan, can get a bargain for a loan that way, much better than a government laugh.

Oh, postgrad generally isn't much of a problem, from what I can see. Even in the US! I am talking about Undergraduate level. I want to complete undergrad level in France before I do graduate in the US. There is practually no funding for Undergrads to go to EU for study, without being a UK University student. Unfortunatly the institute that I want to go to in France only has a link with ONE University in London, of which I am not a student!
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Old Jul 6th 2009, 8:14 pm
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Default Re: My rant of the day...

Originally Posted by Pashtun View Post
I could be wrong, I haven't looked into this (no need to, really) out of curiosty, can't Americans use federal financial Aid to help get with costs associated with study overseas? I am not talking about tuition costs, I am talking about living expenses. I am sure my many American friends who are students here use something like that to help pay for living expenses whilst studying in London. See, we cannot use UK Student Loans to study in the US or even in Europe!
Until last year they could, then part of the paper saving bill or other of Bush, they stopped it, unless it's at an American uni, there's only like one in the UK that was eligible.


No idea for under grad studies though.
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Old Jul 6th 2009, 8:18 pm
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Default Re: My rant of the day...

Originally Posted by Rete View Post

She is talking about immigrating to the UK, not as a spouse of a UKC, but as an intending immigrant with a secondary education received from a university in the UK.

Nothing is relatively easy anywhere in the world in terms of immigration.
Aye, but it is a piece of piss though...you do need an employer who is willing to spend a few hundred squid on the visa but they'll have it within a couple weeks, far less hassle for requirements than the H1 etc.

If you don't have a employer it might be harder, but could always do an internship type of deal.

Most people take part in the workers holiday visa anyway, which gives them 2 years, except the US is exempt from participation in that because it's a reciprocal program and the US is one of the only countries that doesn't partake, though NZ do allow US folk under 30 to partake with a $3K bond up front which gets returned on them leaving the country.
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Old Jul 6th 2009, 8:21 pm
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Default Re: My rant of the day...

Originally Posted by Pashtun View Post
I think you are talking about the Leonardo one. The Leonardo Da Vinci Programme. Its is not for academic programmes, only vocational programmes/training/IT based etc.
You could be right, been years and can't remember, and everyone was doing design so were able to get them.
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Old Jul 6th 2009, 8:21 pm
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Default Re: My rant of the day...

She is talking about immigrating to the UK, not as a spouse of a UKC, but as an intending immigrant with a secondary education received from a university in the UK..
I see. I just got confused with the K-1 Visa thing. When she said that, I thought she meant there was diffculty looking for avenues to get her husband into the US. My misunderstanding.



Plus from your original post you do want to Immigrate to the US. Your plan is to come here for a language course and then find employment at the university where you studied as an assistant or full professor.
Yes and this is only, as I said because it is only in the US where I can study this subject. I will try to do all I can to not go to the US, because of the silly red tape. What I want is not really the issue, its what I can do with relative ease. Relative ease for me would be to go to France, but now even that leads me to moot.
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Old Jul 6th 2009, 8:28 pm
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Default Re: My rant of the day...

Originally Posted by Bob View Post
Aye, but it is a piece of piss though...you do need an employer who is willing to spend a few hundred squid on the visa but they'll have it within a couple weeks, far less hassle for requirements than the H1 etc..
I could be wrong, but as far as I know they also don't need to prove that there is no UK citizen to do the job... like I said, could be wrong. Canada needs LMO - to prove there is no Canadian Citizen to do the job, even before getting a work permit. Never heard this with the UK, could be wrong though...

If you don't have a employer it might be harder, but could always do an internship type of deal. ..
Yes. And also because of former British colonialism, we are now getting South Africans/New Zealand's/Aussies who are re-claiming their British Citizenship with reletive ease. I am not against it or debating it, just mentioning it. Also any commonwealth Citizen, I think can get a work permit. How many countries is that?

Most people take part in the workers holiday visa anyway, which gives them 2 years, except the US is exempt from participation in that because it's a reciprocal program and the US is one of the only countries that doesn't partake, though NZ do allow US folk under 30 to partake with a $3K bond up front which gets returned on them leaving the country.
Interesting. Didnt know that. Learn something new everyday, eh?
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