ukadventurer

Hi BritishExpats!

I found this forum after a recommendation from an expat friend out in the US - what a goldmine! You guys are so helpful!

Here's my situation (I'm a full UK citizen) - and the advice I was given by an immigration lawyer while out in the US last summer. After what I've read on the forum so far, I'd greatly value your second opinions. Especially as I'd prefer to do the visas myself.

Background:
- I have a UK-based online business which I have run with other members of my family for the past few years as my main employment. We sell our products direct-to-customers but also to retail shops. Our revenue has grown over the years and will be around £300k for 2017-18.

- Last year I saw an opportunity for us to get more US customers. I travelled to the US twice in 2017 (around 60 days total), both for tourism and to talk to people about the business, and attend exploratory meetings with potential partners and service providers

- In autumn 2017, while back in the UK, I set up a US version of our website and started selling US-themed produce to customers (I had shipped out stock to a third-party warehouse/fulfilment company I'd met during my summer visit of 45 days under the VWP/ESTA). The US revenue was £12k by the end of December 2017 - so far all under the umbrella of the UK company.

- Based on our growth in the UK and experience so far in the US, I believe the US portion of the business has the potential to reach much higher revenues within a couple of years. I'm excited, but also weary of this visa stuff!

Here's what I'd like to do:
- Move to live and work in the US for a period of 1-2 years and focus on growing the US operation. This would include, over time, importing substantial stock from the UK, eventually employing a small number of staff/contractors in the US, getting some products manufactured in the US, and of course being able to work there freely myself. Being physically out there would, I believe, allow me to make a much better job of growing the business.

- Ideally I would like the US operation to be a separate entity from the UK business, in order to split the risk, allow us to hire people in the US, and also because I have an agreement with the rest of the team here that I can be 100% owner of the US business (we share the UK).

Other points which may or may not be relevant:
- I am a homeowner in the UK, which I guess may help show I have long term interests here

- While in the US last summer, I met a wonderful American girl but resigned myself to assuming there was no point continuing a relationship beyond my departure, because of the distance etc. She had other ideas though...haha! We've kept in touch and she will be visiting me in the UK in February. Who knows what will happen long term but I'm noting this in case it's something an immigration officer might pick up on as a 'risk factor'. I would love to go and stay with her out there but don't want to risk the business getting shut down or something as a result.

What the US immigration lawyer advised last summer:
- He said that an E-2 visa should be my ultimate goal for the purposes of running the business in the US. I was concerned that there were minimum investment amounts, but he said it depends on the business plan and other things, there is no set minimum applicable to all businesses.

- He recommended I initially apply for a B-1 visa, with a view to later applying for an E-2. He said the B-1 would allow me to still travel to the US for business meetings (e.g. with the warehouse and with prospective larger customers like shops), as well as other miscellaneous things like attending conferences and business training courses which I told him was among the activities I'd like to do.

- I asked why I shouldn't just apply for an E-2 right away, but he said getting the B-1 first would show the US authorities a better 'progression' of the business plan and gives legitimacy. Also gives more time to grow the US element of the business, to make a better case for E-2.

My questions/concerns:
- I have read on this forum that B-1 is routinely denied for people who are from VWP-eligible countries. So what do you make of the lawyer's advice above?

- How long can I keep making trips on the VWP/ESTA before eyebrows are raised by customs officers? I know I'm not allowed to be 'running' the business while out there. But could I start approaching shops who might be interested in buying our products? This is the main next-step activity I want to do out there.

- If I apply for a B-1 / E-2 and get rejected, I believe (based on this forum) that it's 6 months before I could re-enter the US on VWP. Would our US business operations also be at risk of being shut down through any of this process?

- Reading online, wouldn't the L-1 visa also be an option - because I want to set up a US branch of a foreign business?

- I'm a reasonably smart guy, learn quickly, and can see that lawyers are going to take some big costs when it comes to visa issues etc. But is trying to DIY this a big no-no?

- Ideally, on a re-visit, I would go and stay with the girl I met last summer. But if I put her down as 'contact/place of residence', would that risk an immigration officer thinking I was going over with the intention of marriage or something, and get suspicious?

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Thanks so much for reading to the end, and for sharing any thoughts you may have on this!

neill

Seems like you've done good research.

Probably the first thing you should do is realise that a lot of immigration lawyers are not very good, and it's a good idea to understand as much of the 'dirty details' yourself as you can. You are correct - most WVPers should enter on WB status and not try to get a B-1. According to others here, best to be out of U.S. for as long as you are in, but there is no hard rule. It's the totality of facts that matter when trying to enter.

scrubbedexpat099

B allows you to adjust to E2 status but that may be a reason not to be issued one. Why do you need to be out there for more than 90 days, a lot of meetings.

How many employees does the UK business have?

How much will the US investment be?

ukadventurer

Thanks, yes my instinct said I should try to understand as much of this as I can myself, even if I am going to use an immigration lawyer!

ukadventurer

I guess that's what the lawyer must have been aiming for when he talked about 'B1, prospective E2'. I wonder how many B1s are able to adjust down the line and whether there is any advantage over just using the VWP for a little longer then going for E2?
UK business has 4 employees, but much of our work is outsourced so it's not a good indication of how many people 'work for us' I suppose.
The US 'investment' would basically grow with the company. Let's say we make £100k revenue in the US this year, maybe £40k of that would get spent in the US, and the rest spent abroad (on manufacturing, shipping in stock etc).
I want to hit retailers all across the country, bit by bit, so yes a lot of meetings! But the reason for wanting to go over more permanently under E2 is that I think to grow the business properly out there, I need to understand the market, be able to meet retail customers at short notice, and work with contractors/employees.

Nutmegger

I believe that if you adjust to E2 from the B within the US, you will be landlocked until you go to the Embassy in London and get the approval there.

scrubbedexpat099

Business seems very marginal, how would it support you never mind pay US Employees?

S Folinsky

Make sure you use a lawyer with experience in business immigration and with London. You ask good questions. I sense both possibilities and land mines in the path to your goals. Do note that judgment calls are involved.

As wonderful as the poster in these forums are, I am of the opinion that your case is beyond their capabilities and knowledge.

Good luck.

Twinkle0927

If that's where you are staying you must be truthful on your customs form and list her address. What's suspicious about the truth? You absolutely must be truthful with CBP and customs. Don't give the answers you think will make you look better. Tell the truth.

For what it's worth, I visited my husband over 40 times before emigrating. Only once was I given a hard time and accused of intending to adjust status.

And anyway, coming to the USA with the intention of marriage is not illegal. I got married here as a visitor, as did many of us on this forum.

civilservant

I do think retaining an attorney is a good idea in your case, it seems that the US business, at least at first, will be more 'subsistence' than anything else - and that is an express reason to reject a visa application.

ukadventurer

Good to know that might be a possible reason for rejection. I'd hoped they might see a good business plan and be more positive though?

ukadventurer

Thanks for the tip. I've been put in touch with a lawyer by a friend recently, but it seems their specialism is more humanitarian and family immigration than business... Perhaps I should look for someone in London rather than someone US-based

civilservant

Ultimatly, they only care about the upside for the US economy and the employment of USC's, what you want dosen't matter.

You also need to be made aware that the E2 is often called 'the visa from hell' here on the forums. It never leads to a Green Card, and if USCIS rejects a petition for renewal that's it - you have to sell up and leave or run it remotely.

S Folinsky

My learned colleague, J Craig Fong is one I can recommend. [His first name is the letter "J." It is not an initial]. People in this forum have posted praise.

[Disclosure: I used to share office space with J.]

S Folinsky

OP notes that he does want to come temporarily to the US. His expressed desire fits precisely within E status.

Also, I would note that there is no direct way from E-2 to green card. Also, many E-2's also qualify for "L-1A" status and that such status has an analogue in the immigrant arena. [Been there done that].