Immigration reform
Mar 12th 2013, 11:59 pm
#46
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Posts: 2
Re: Immigration reform
Switzerland may have relaxed it's regulations since they joined the Schengen Agreement. Getting into Switzerland was seldom a problem without a passport but previously the police came to the hotels every night to pick up a list of guest names with passport or Swiss ID numbers.
I haven't been there for over 15 years so maybe they changed their penalties on employers.
I haven't been there for over 15 years so maybe they changed their penalties on employers.
Mar 13th 2013, 1:11 am
#47
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Location: San Francisco Bay Area
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Re: Immigration reform
"I have said that Mexico does not stop at its border, that wherever there is a Mexican, there is Mexico" - Mexican President Calderón
Theres your problem right there. They think they are above US the law and feel they have the right be here. People smugging, drop houses, crime and drugs are a problem the US, paticularily in Arizona. Illegal immigrants filling Arizona ER rooms without insurance demanding treatment for minor issues is obnoxious to say the least. They feel entitled to be here and to use services for their typically large families (they are all rock cakes), just because they have a minimum wage father who pays a minimal amount in taxes. Every time Arizona tries to deal with the problem the federal government refuses to cooperate. States can identify an illegal but the department of homeland security doesnt want to know.
It took a lot of time and money for me to be here legally. All the background checks and assesments, health, vaccinations, paperwork and uncertainty. All immigrants should have to do the same or be deported.
Letting illegal immigrants earn citizenship is not a good idea. Its an open door. It implies that ALL or most illegals will be provided citizenship. The US already has an immigration policy.
E-Verify introduced in Arizona in 2008 has been very effective. Plenty of illegals have choosen to leave the state.
Theres your problem right there. They think they are above US the law and feel they have the right be here. People smugging, drop houses, crime and drugs are a problem the US, paticularily in Arizona. Illegal immigrants filling Arizona ER rooms without insurance demanding treatment for minor issues is obnoxious to say the least. They feel entitled to be here and to use services for their typically large families (they are all rock cakes), just because they have a minimum wage father who pays a minimal amount in taxes. Every time Arizona tries to deal with the problem the federal government refuses to cooperate. States can identify an illegal but the department of homeland security doesnt want to know.
It took a lot of time and money for me to be here legally. All the background checks and assesments, health, vaccinations, paperwork and uncertainty. All immigrants should have to do the same or be deported.
Letting illegal immigrants earn citizenship is not a good idea. Its an open door. It implies that ALL or most illegals will be provided citizenship. The US already has an immigration policy.
E-Verify introduced in Arizona in 2008 has been very effective. Plenty of illegals have choosen to leave the state.
For example Georgia passed strict "show me your papers" laws and farm crops were either not planted or rotted in the fields since undocumented aliens found it less risky to work in other states. Because of that, Georgia law enforcement have become lax about enforcing the law.
In my opinion, most people from other countries should be able to easily visit the US (even poor people with little ties to their country) but it should be very difficult for them to get a job without the proper visa. In order for this to work properly, there has to be a large number of guest worker visa available, enforced e-verify, and strict sanctions on employers that hire undocumented aliens. There will always be some maids, au pairs, gardeners, and the self employed that will slip through the cracks but 300,000 undocumented aliens is better than 11 million.
Many of the laws that have been passed by the states have made their current economy worse. It can be popular to blame a group of people for all the problems but it is generally used as a scapegoat to cover up the real problem. The undocumented aliens are no more of a problem that the "Irish" were in the 19th century.
Prior to the 1960s, there were plenty of guest worker visas available for farms and the Latinos returned home after the growing season. However as the government issued less and less guest worker visas, the number undocumented workers increased and were fearful of returning to their country since they would have to try to get back across the border into the US for the next growing season.
Last edited by Michael; Mar 13th 2013 at 1:49 am.
Mar 13th 2013, 1:18 am
#48
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2
Re: Immigration reform
And it probably exasperated Arizona's housing crisis as well as it's recovery. Many states in the US are dependent on undocumented aliens to drive their economy and without a sensible guest worker program, there isn't an alternate solution.
For example Georgia passed strict "show me your papers" laws and farm crops were either not planted or rotted in the fields since undocumented aliens found it less risky to work in other states. Because of that, Georgia law enforcement have become lax about enforcing the law.
In my opinion, most people from other countries should be able to easily visit the US (even poor people with little ties to their country) but it should be very difficult for them to get a job without the proper visa. In order for this to work properlyr, there has to be a large number of guest worker visa available and strict sanctions on employers that hire undocumented aliens.
For example Georgia passed strict "show me your papers" laws and farm crops were either not planted or rotted in the fields since undocumented aliens found it less risky to work in other states. Because of that, Georgia law enforcement have become lax about enforcing the law.
In my opinion, most people from other countries should be able to easily visit the US (even poor people with little ties to their country) but it should be very difficult for them to get a job without the proper visa. In order for this to work properlyr, there has to be a large number of guest worker visa available and strict sanctions on employers that hire undocumented aliens.
Well maybe not.
Mar 13th 2013, 1:55 am
#50
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Joined: Jun 2008
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 10,678
Re: Immigration reform
How many Americans do you think would drag all their wife and children along to work the fields, migrate from one farm to the next, live in substandard conditions, and work for the amount of bushels picked and not minimum wage? However if they work the season (12 hour days and 7 days a week) with their wife and kids, they can make enough money to last the full year.
Also minimum wage laws and child labor laws are different for farm workers than other jobs. In fact, farm workers are not even included when calculating the unemployment rate.
Also minimum wage laws and child labor laws are different for farm workers than other jobs. In fact, farm workers are not even included when calculating the unemployment rate.
Last edited by Michael; Mar 13th 2013 at 2:03 am.
Mar 13th 2013, 2:10 am
#51
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2
Re: Immigration reform
Where I live is mainly seasonal, so I know quite a few people who work very long hours when they can. You do what you have to do. Not everybody has a 9-5 option.
Mar 13th 2013, 4:43 pm
#52
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,570
Re: Immigration reform
Regardless of whether anyone thinks undocumented immigrants are necessary, useful to the economy or can be tolerated in a certain numbers you have to consider the fact :
Under Title 8 Section 1325 of the U.S. Code, "Improper Entry by Alien," any citizen of any country other than the United States who:
Enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers; or
Eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers; or
Attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact;
has committed a federal crime.
Mar 13th 2013, 5:03 pm
#53
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Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 10,678
Re: Immigration reform
I'm not aware of how much of a problem the undocumented Irish immigrants were in the 19th century. But i dont think two wrongs make a right.
Regardless of whether anyone thinks undocumented immigrants are necessary, useful to the economy or can be tolerated in a certain numbers you have to consider the fact :
Under Title 8 Section 1325 of the U.S. Code, "Improper Entry by Alien," any citizen of any country other than the United States who:
Enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers; or
Eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers; or
Attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact;
has committed a federal crime.
Regardless of whether anyone thinks undocumented immigrants are necessary, useful to the economy or can be tolerated in a certain numbers you have to consider the fact :
Under Title 8 Section 1325 of the U.S. Code, "Improper Entry by Alien," any citizen of any country other than the United States who:
Enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers; or
Eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers; or
Attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact;
has committed a federal crime.
Mar 13th 2013, 5:27 pm
#54
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2
Re: Immigration reform
The Irish weren't undocumented but Americans blamed them for their problems since they were willing to work for less than Americans. Then of course there were the Chinese that everybody blamed. Many of the Italians in the early 20th century didn't have the correct papers on arrival and that is why they were referred to as WOPs (without papers).
Mar 13th 2013, 5:29 pm
#55
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Joined: Jan 2006
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Posts: 12,865
Re: Immigration reform
The Irish weren't undocumented but Americans blamed them for their problems since they were willing to work for less than Americans. Then of course there were the Chinese that everybody blamed. Many of the Italians in the early 20th century didn't have the correct papers on arrival and that is why they were referred to as WOPs (without papers).
Mar 18th 2013, 5:59 pm
#56
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Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 143
Re: Immigration reform
The Republican Party are now officially endorsing comprehensive immigration reform.
The 'Gang of Eight' reform plan would mean undocumented immigrants would have a 13 year path to citizenship.
"The arrangement would shrink the amount of time it takes to become a naturalized citizen, to three years from five years. But in an appeal to Republicans, it would also extend to 10 years, from 8, the amount of time that illegal immigrants must wait before receiving permission to work in the United States permanently."
The 'Gang of Eight' reform plan would mean undocumented immigrants would have a 13 year path to citizenship.
"The arrangement would shrink the amount of time it takes to become a naturalized citizen, to three years from five years. But in an appeal to Republicans, it would also extend to 10 years, from 8, the amount of time that illegal immigrants must wait before receiving permission to work in the United States permanently."
Mar 18th 2013, 6:43 pm
#57
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Joined: Mar 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 8,106
Re: Immigration reform
The Republican Party are now officially endorsing comprehensive immigration reform.
The 'Gang of Eight' reform plan would mean undocumented immigrants would have a 13 year path to citizenship.
"The arrangement would shrink the amount of time it takes to become a naturalized citizen, to three years from five years. But in an appeal to Republicans, it would also extend to 10 years, from 8, the amount of time that illegal immigrants must wait before receiving permission to work in the United States permanently."
The 'Gang of Eight' reform plan would mean undocumented immigrants would have a 13 year path to citizenship.
"The arrangement would shrink the amount of time it takes to become a naturalized citizen, to three years from five years. But in an appeal to Republicans, it would also extend to 10 years, from 8, the amount of time that illegal immigrants must wait before receiving permission to work in the United States permanently."
Mar 18th 2013, 6:46 pm
#58
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Joined: Jan 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 143
Re: Immigration reform
Being in favour of reform, whether that be for an altruistic reason or not, is better than them being against reform, for those who are hoping for a bill to pass.
Mar 18th 2013, 6:57 pm
#59
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Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 8,106
Re: Immigration reform
Agreed, though their motivation for change may well influence the type of change they will be happy to support.
Mar 18th 2013, 8:22 pm
#60
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2
Re: Immigration reform
The people who suffer most are the ones who have "Jobs Americans will not do"
I know that Construction wages have been hit hard, I was told by friends here that you used to be able to ski bum, clean houses etc, but they were getting twice as much 15 years ago as is paid now.
I know that Construction wages have been hit hard, I was told by friends here that you used to be able to ski bum, clean houses etc, but they were getting twice as much 15 years ago as is paid now.