Michael

And if the republicans decide to pass immigration reform, they'll probably do the same dumb thing that they did during the Reagan immigration reform by watering down penalties against employers so much as to make sure it didn't work due to pressure from the Chamber of Commerce, farm lobby, hospitality lobby, and other businesses.

Then just like last time, they'll say "see, immigration reform doesn't work" for political purposes.

scrubbedexpat099

Reagan did admit it was his biggest mistake.

Michael

When Ronald Reagan delivered his farewell address more than two decades ago, he cited one regret: a continuing deficit he had put the nation on track to eliminate.

"I've been asked if I have any regrets. Well, I do," said Reagan. "The deficit is one. I've been talking a great deal about that lately, but tonight isn't for arguments, and I'm going to hold my tongue."

scrubbedexpat099

“A nation that cannot control its borders is not a nation.”
― Ronald Reagan

Michael

That does not mean it was his biggest mistake. Immigration can be controlled like Switzerland does (20% of the population are guest workers and over 99% are legal) by imposing strict sanctions against employers that hire undocumented aliens. Undocumented aliens only sneak across the border because they know that someone will hire them.

It is the same reason that drug smugglers smuggle drugs into the US since they know they have willing clients to buy their products. Very little can be done to stop drug smuggling except to legalize it but immigration can work if it is implemented correctly.

scrubbedexpat099

I do not think Switzerland has Sanctuary cantons?

Look what happened when Arizona tried to do something?

Michael

You are missing the point. There wouldn't be any sanctuary cities if there were strict sanctions on employers nationwide since there wouldn't be any jobs for undocumented aliens to have.

Why do we always have to do things the hard and expensive way by building billion dollar walls, high tech surveillance, massive number of border guards on the border, and each state passing it's own immigration enforcement laws? Employers will always hire labor the cheapest way possible and with such as large loophole in the law, it is cheaper to hire undocumented aliens than legal guest workers but then the government ends up picking up the bill. By creating such laws, we essentially invited undocumented aliens to come to work in the US. Eventually republicans should take some responsibility for the extremely weak immigration reform that they passed to suppress wages instead of always blaming the problems on the democrats once their poorly designed bill goes bad.

Arizona didn't complain about cheap labor until a black democrat came to power and the unemployment rate rose due to the crash.

scrubbedexpat099

You are assuming that every layer of government has the same view.

For example Marijuana is now legal in CO. Not at the Federal level. So the dealers have issue opening bank accounts as it would be Federal money laundering offence....

Another issue that I found highly amusing is that CO Dems have passed laws allowing undocumented students sic lower fees than US Citizens.

Giantaxe

Indeed. And employers will keep hiring them until the penalties and enforcement are strong enough to deter. And money for the latter is actually decreasing.

scrubbedexpat099

It would be very very simple to enact.

Just make their employment cost not tax deductible.

Steve_

Pfft, I remember various occasions when I was in Switzerland and the news was full of people moaning about illegal immigrants from Albania, Kosovo and the former Yugoslavian nations.

There was a big controversy because they basically put them in a gulag under a mountain when they refused to return and the UNHRC said it violated international law.

Michael

That sound similar to Japan when I was there on a business trip. The top story of the news was the number of illegal Chinese workers (primarily maids) working in Japan and the Japanese people were very upset. It was estimated that more than 1,000 illegals were working in Japan which is less than the number that illegally cross the border into the US daily. In fact I went the business trip with a Chinese girl (a USC) and she was called to the police station to make sure that she was legal (she felt very insulted).

When I was living in Switzerland, when I rented a home or even stayed in a hotel, it was reported to the police. When a Swiss citizen moves from canton to canton, he/she must bring a sealed envelope from the police station to the new canton. So I doubt there were very many illegals working in Switzerland and if they are, they have to be extremely careful and if an employer get caught, they pay a heavy fine and can't get visas for guest workers for years.

Steve_

I've stayed in tons of hotels and rented accommodation in Switzerland, I can't ever remember it being reported to the police. I remember in Lausanne once they wanted to see my passport but that was about it. And this was before they joined the Schengen Agreement, so now it would be easier if you can get into the EU you just get on a bus and you're there.

My sister (who is a pilot) was telling me the other day in 15 years of travelling regularly to Geneva she has only been asked for her passport once by customs.

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/swiss_ne...l?cid=29056572

Estimated 70-180,000 illegal immigrants in Switzerland according to that. In a population of 8 million. So that means 1-2% of the population are there illegally. In the US it is estimated to be 12 million in a population of 310 million, so 3.8%. Not surprising that it is lower in Switzerland given the Schengen Agreement.

Uncle_Bob

"I have said that Mexico does not stop at its border, that wherever there is a Mexican, there is Mexico" - Mexican President Calderón

Theres your problem right there. They think they are above US the law and feel they have the right be here. People smugging, drop houses, crime and drugs are a problem the US, paticularily in Arizona. Illegal immigrants filling Arizona ER rooms without insurance demanding treatment for minor issues is obnoxious to say the least. They feel entitled to be here and to use services for their typically large families (they are all rock cakes), just because they have a minimum wage father who pays a minimal amount in taxes. Every time Arizona tries to deal with the problem the federal government refuses to cooperate. States can identify an illegal but the department of homeland security doesnt want to know.

It took a lot of time and money for me to be here legally. All the background checks and assesments, health, vaccinations, paperwork and uncertainty. All immigrants should have to do the same or be deported.

Letting illegal immigrants earn citizenship is not a good idea. Its an open door. It implies that ALL or most illegals will be provided citizenship. The US already has an immigration policy.

E-Verify introduced in Arizona in 2008 has been very effective. Plenty of illegals have choosen to leave the state.

Michael

Switzerland may have relaxed it's regulations since they joined the Schengen Agreement. Getting into Switzerland was seldom a problem without a passport but previously the police came to the hotels every night to pick up a list of guest names with passport or Swiss ID numbers.

I haven't been there for over 15 years so maybe they changed their penalties on employers.