shahrokh22

Hi L D,

Your are correct. But that is a part of a greater qualification process (it is one of many conditions). But you do not have to renounce your old citizenship , if you obtained the citizenship by birth as long as you do not claim dual citizenship and do not own/use another passport (I went through this process when I received my clearance).

ian-mstm

This is not definitive. In the first place, the words "could" and "will" are not interchangeable, so something that *could* be detrimental to your application may not necessarily *be* detrimental. Besides, this is not an official US government web site, so they can pretty much say what they want. Could you supply something from a more official site?

Ian

shahrokh22

Hi Again Ian,
Here is the official Defense Security Service (DSS) site:
You can look at all their cases from 1996 to present, some cases include laws and regulations related to DOD.

http://www.dod.mil/dodgc/doha/industrial/

Rete

That still makes no sense whatsoever. Just because one no longer holds a valid useable passport from another country does not mean that they cannot obtain just that by applying at their country's Consulate or leaving the US with their US passport and obtaining it in person in the other country.

Security is about one's alliances to the US and their trustworthiness. It would make sense that the dual citizen be asked to official renounce their citizenship in a country considered a threat to the US defense system and the US population in general.

Just Jenney

Maybe if you had provided more details in your initial post, you would have received responses that wouldn't have surprised you so much. It wasn't until your second post that you even mentioned the DOD, or that the Iranian government no longer accepts Iranian passports.

In any case, most native-born American citizens have no reason to know that naturalized citizens need to surrender their foreign passports in order to get DOD clearance. So why are you surprised that people are unaware of something that they probably would never need to know except in extremely limited circumstances?

If you don't renounce your original citizenship, how can you NOT be claiming dual citizenship? By not renouncing your original citizenship, don't you automatically have dual citizenship? (Depending on the country, of course) How can you have one without the other??

~ Jenney

shahrokh22

You may be right on this issue. But the law does not require any dual citizen whether from a friendly country or hostile to officially renounce their original citizenship (you can find that on the DSS website I posted before, Guidelines A, B and C). Especially since the United States is looking for many more engineers ans scientists (there are less US citizen engineers than non-citizens).
I am originally from Iran and I was not required to renounce my Iranian citizenship when DSS granted me a clearance.

shahrokh22

Hi Jenny,
You are right. I forgot to mention it in my first posting. I apologize.
But I do not think that it can be called "extremely limited circumstances" or maybe it is in this forum. These days many of the US companies are tied to defense contracts. But as I said, it is possible that not many people in this forum are familiar with the concept of security clearance since they do not work in a related firm.

regardinh dual citizenship claim, I meant on the clearance form as long as you do not claim dual citizenship, it is acceptable.

BTW, like anywhere else, there are many funny laws in the US too.
State Deprtment allows US citizens to have two passports and use them both, but Department of Defense does not permit that. In other words, as long as you're not working in a defense related firm, you are OK.

scrubbedexpat099

Most of the people on this forum are through marriage or work.

I have never seen anybody post about the need to renounce ones original citizenship to obtain employment. I have seen the need to be have a GC (Post Office) or Citizenship (Security Classified jobs)

A Passport can always be replaced, I have just applied for one, 2 weeks wait I am told.

Whilst having a fairly low opinion of security issues, certainly as practised in the US, I find it difficult to believe that non possesion of a Passport makes you suddenly eligible.

AdobePinon

I would just assume that he knows what he's talking about. These issues are extremely specific to the exact agency involved, the project involved, the citizenships involved, and the type of management exercised over the project. Various things can be required: a) gain US citizenship; b) get rid of foreign passport; c) renounce foreign citizenship; d) maintain foreign citizenship and passport; e) some combination of the above. He should however make sure that the rulebook he is reading is the one specific to his work and the people he works for, as well as being aware that simply doing what is requested is not a guarantee of gaining a clearance.

sgallagher

Jenney & Mark wrote:
    > > Hi L D,
    > >
    > > Your are correct. But that is a part of a greater qualification
    > > process (it is one of many conditions). But you do not have to
    > > renounce your old citizenship , if you obtained the citizenship by
    > > birth as long as you do not claim dual citizenship and do not own/use
    > > another passport (I went through this process when I received my
    > > clearance).
    > Maybe if you had provided more details in your initial post, you would
    > have received responses that wouldn't have surprised you so much. It
    > wasn't until your second post that you even mentioned the DOD, or that
    > the Iranian government no longer accepts Iranian passports.
    > In any case, most native-born American citizens have no reason to know
    > that naturalized citizens need to surrender their foreign passports in
    > order to get DOD clearance. So why are you surprised that people are
    > unaware of something that they probably would never need to know except
    > in extremely limited circumstances?
    > If you don't renounce your original citizenship, how can you NOT be
    > claiming dual citizenship? By not renouncing your original citizenship,
    > don't you automatically have dual citizenship? (Depending on the
    > country, of course) How can you have one without the other??

It's correct that if a person doesn't renounce a second citizenship and
if that country still views him as being one of its citizens, then he
is automatically a dual citizen, whether he acknowledges that other
citizenship or not. Keep in mind that in some cases, dual citizens may
not be allowed (by the laws or policies of the other country) to give
up the other citizenship.

But, for the purposes of government security clearance issues, a dual
US/other citizen may not be absolutely required to actually give up the
other citizenship IF he can show that he never took any active steps to
obtain that citizenship (ie. it was obtained through the automatic
operation of the other country's laws, or through the actions of
another person) and he can show that since becoming a US citizen he
hasn't tried to make use of it - such as by travelling on a passport
from that country or performing some other action that would only be
allowed by citizens of that other country, and that he'd be willing to
formally renounce the other citizenship if that action is allowed.

sgallagher

shahrokh22 wrote:
    > > Hi There,
    > >
    > > Does anybody know how to get rid of your old nationality passport when
    > > you become a US Citizen WITHOUT sending it to the Embassy?
    > >
    > > Can you hand-in your passport when you attend the swearing ceremony to
    > > the judge and ask him to give you a receipt?
    > >
    > > Is there any other way?
    > >
    > >
    > > Thank You,
    > >
    > > Shahrokh22
    > Hi Everybody,
    > This is so surprising to me. Most of you people live in the states and
    > some of you are US Citizen by birth and still you do not have any idea
    > that one of the largest industries in the United States is the Defense
    > Industry and in order to join it you need to surrender your passport
    > (normally to your country of birth embassy) but you dont have to
    > renounce your citizenship if you obtained it by birth.
    > My wife will have her Master of Science in Computer Information Systems
    > in 7 months and hopefully she will have her Citizenship certificate by
    > then and she will start looking for work in the defense industry
    > (beginning with where I work).
    > She needs to surrender her passport but Iran's Embassy does not accept
    > passports to be surrendered anymore. And we cannot let it expire, since
    > it will take a long time.
    > We are looking for a way for my wife to get rid of her passport (and get
    > a receipt from a legal authority) before she attends a job interview
    > (before she has to fill out a security clearance form).
    > Can she surrender her passport to the judge at her swearing ceremony?

No. They'll take her green card, but they won't expect or accept her
passport when she becomes a US citizen.

As I understand, Iranian law does not make it easy for a person to give
up Iranian citizenship. It's allowed by law but, in actuality,
requests to give up citizenship often go unacknowledged.

Additionally, your wife may find that even if she is absolutely willing
to turn in her Iranian passport once she becomes a US citizen, she may
be prevented from obtaining a US security clearance if she has any
close relatives who live in Iran or elsewhere outside the US, or who
are still non-US citizens. The government's policy is to make sure
that a person to whom they grant clearance will not make a decision
that is more favorable towards a foreign country than to the US, and
they feel that persons with close relatives who are citizens or
residents of foreign countries may be influenced by that fact, either
directly or indirectly.

L D Jones

Rete wrote:
    >> Hi Ian,
    >> If you need to obtain a security clearance, ABSOLUTELY.
    >
    > Unless things have recently been changed, this is not true. My
    > Canadian, now American husband, worked for the US Department of Defense
    > in the 1960's and he is high clearance from both the Canadian and US
    > Governments. He was not asked to surrender his Canadian passport.
    >
    > He also at the moment has high security clearance with the US Army, he
    > is a Major, as maintains the communications for both the National and
    > State Guard in lower New York State. He has retained both his US and
    > Canadian passports.
    >

It may depend on one's country of birth. I'm not surprised a Canadian
citizen could obtain a US security clearance (it's common for "friendly"
foreign nationals to be "read on" to various programs). I personally
knew 2 people originally from Russia who could not get clearances even
though they were US citizens. I suspect if an agency wants a particular
person and has the power to get the "ticket" almost anything is possible.

[email protected]

Of course, the guys who work in the finance industry spend their lives
in that field and end up feeling that it's the greatest industry out
there. (how else would the world survise if companies couldn't finance
themselves)

Of course, the guys who work in the farming industry spend their lives
in that field and end up feeling that it's the greatest industry out
there. (how else could people survive without the food we produce)

Of course, the guys who work in the defense industry spend their lives
in that field and end up feeling that it's the greatest industry out
there. (what else could it be after all the money Bush spends)

Of course, the guys who breed butterflies ....


[email protected] wrote:
    > shahrokh22 wrote:
    > > > Hi There,
    > > >
    > > > Does anybody know how to get rid of your old nationality passport when
    > > > you become a US Citizen WITHOUT sending it to the Embassy?
    > > >
    > > > Can you hand-in your passport when you attend the swearing ceremony to
    > > > the judge and ask him to give you a receipt?
    > > >
    > > > Is there any other way?
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Thank You,
    > > >
    > > > Shahrokh22
    > >
    > > Hi Everybody,
    > >
    > > This is so surprising to me. Most of you people live in the states and
    > > some of you are US Citizen by birth and still you do not have any idea
    > > that one of the largest industries in the United States is the Defense
    > > Industry and in order to join it you need to surrender your passport
    > > (normally to your country of birth embassy) but you dont have to
    > > renounce your citizenship if you obtained it by birth.
    > >
    > > My wife will have her Master of Science in Computer Information Systems
    > > in 7 months and hopefully she will have her Citizenship certificate by
    > > then and she will start looking for work in the defense industry
    > > (beginning with where I work).
    > > She needs to surrender her passport but Iran's Embassy does not accept
    > > passports to be surrendered anymore. And we cannot let it expire, since
    > > it will take a long time.
    > > We are looking for a way for my wife to get rid of her passport (and get
    > > a receipt from a legal authority) before she attends a job interview
    > > (before she has to fill out a security clearance form).
    > >
    > > Can she surrender her passport to the judge at her swearing ceremony?
    > No. They'll take her green card, but they won't expect or accept her
    > passport when she becomes a US citizen.
    > As I understand, Iranian law does not make it easy for a person to give
    > up Iranian citizenship. It's allowed by law but, in actuality,
    > requests to give up citizenship often go unacknowledged.
    > Additionally, your wife may find that even if she is absolutely willing
    > to turn in her Iranian passport once she becomes a US citizen, she may
    > be prevented from obtaining a US security clearance if she has any
    > close relatives who live in Iran or elsewhere outside the US, or who
    > are still non-US citizens. The government's policy is to make sure
    > that a person to whom they grant clearance will not make a decision
    > that is more favorable towards a foreign country than to the US, and
    > they feel that persons with close relatives who are citizens or
    > residents of foreign countries may be influenced by that fact, either
    > directly or indirectly.

shahrokh22

But there is a big difference between the meanings of "Greatest" and "Largest".

luivega

Being a British citizen who was formerly married to a person with a high security clearance, whilst he was active duty abroad, and then later working in the defence industry requiring the same clearance I can tell you that it doesn't matter what all the written rules say about foreign passports on any website.

You need to go and talk to the security officer that handles the firm your wife is going to be working for.

It is going to depend on the project she is working on, the skills she has and the clearance required. Each case is handled individually, and the security officer will tell you exactly what she needs to do and the possibilities. Depending on the level of the project, if background checks cannot be done on close family members it doesn't matter if you get up on CNN and denounce your former country, you won't get a high clearance. Secret will probably be the most.

I have a very funny story about US officials going through my parents and my sisters trash, but thats for another time.

Incidentally, I hold a green card, but as a foreign national I could never visit my ex-husband's civilian office. The furthest I could go was the firms parking lot

Anway, to summarise, the key is talking to the firm's security officer and getting precise instructions from him/her.

Andrea