powburn

Hi,

The wife's Labor Certification under Perm is in process just now towards permanent residency. The 60 days quoted for this to complete (approve, deny or audit), is that calendar days or working days?

Once the Labor Certification has been approved, what would be a reasonable timescale before I can change status and work?
I think this is before the final Permanent Residency approval.

I have a large company interested in hiring me, but "their quota for H1 visa's has been maxed out from a company perspective. The likely hood of getting one is very low".
Not entirely sure about the truth in their quota for H1B's. I'd like to be able to give them a rough timescale for when I could be employed, think it might just be a few months after Labor Certification, to see if they're prepared to wait that long.

Thanks,

David.

Ingo Pakleppa

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powburn wrote:

    >
    > Hi,
    >
    > The wife's Labor Certification under Perm is in process just now towards
    > permanent residency. The 60 days quoted for this to complete (approve,
    > deny or audit), is that calendar days or working days?

It's really no more than a guess. It would be calendar days, but PERM is
still so new that there is not enough data available to make any
statistically valid statements. It's as possible that the 60 days are just
due to a huge influx and them still refining internal procedures (and will
speed up the process), as that they are falling more and more behind, and
we might see much longer processing times in the near future.

    > Once the Labor Certification has been approved, what would be a
    > reasonable timescale before I can change status and work?
    > I think this is before the final Permanent Residency approval.

OK, two questions:

- - where (which country) were you and your wife born?
- - which category did she file her LC under?

Depending on the answers, the time frame could be anything from "you could
file immediately upon approval, and have employment authorization within 90
days" to "you have to wait four or five years".

For more information about how all that works, I'd like to point you to my
FAQ site at http://www.kkeane.com - in particular, understand the quota
system. There currently is a substantial quota backlog in the EB-3
category, and another backlog may develop in EB-2. On the other hand, the
new quota becomes available October 1, so we will see - temporarily - some
relief.

    > I have a large company interested in hiring me, but "their quota for H1
    > visa's has been maxed out from a company perspective. The likely hood of
    > getting one is very low".
    > Not entirely sure about the truth in their quota for H1B's.

The quota indeed has been exhausted. It's not "from the company's
perspective" but nationwide. But there are certain exceptions: people who
have a Master's degree from a US university can still get an H-1B, as well
as universities and people from Chile, Singapore and Australia (the
conditions are different for Chile and Singapore, and the visa for
Australia is called E-3 but is very similar).

    > I'd like to
    > be able to give them a rough timescale for when I could be employed,
    > think it might just be a few months after Labor Certification, to see if
    > they're prepared to wait that long.

Well, even if all goes perfectly well, just the paperwork of getting you
employment authorization can take 90 days. So I would give this as a
minimum.

- --
Remember, I am strictly a layperson without any legal training. I encourage
everybody to seek competent legal counsel rather than relying on usenet
newsgroups.

Please visit my new FAQ at http://www.kkeane.com (always under construction)

My email address in usenet posts is now invalid for spam protection. See
my Web site for information on how to contact me.

Please feel free to enjoy some of my photographs at my Web site
http://www.ingopakleppa.com ! Comments are welcome.
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powburn

    > The wife's Labor Certification under Perm is in process just now towards
    > permanent residency. The 60 days quoted for this to complete (approve,
    > deny or audit), is that calendar days or working days?

It's really no more than a guess. It would be calendar days, but PERM is
still so new that there is not enough data available to make any
statistically valid statements. It's as possible that the 60 days are just
due to a huge influx and them still refining internal procedures (and will
speed up the process), as that they are falling more and more behind, and
we might see much longer processing times in the near future.


Well, we've been waiting ~45 working, 60 calendar days so far without a response, so We'll just have to keep on waiting.


    > Once the Labor Certification has been approved, what would be a
    > reasonable timescale before I can change status and work?
    > I think this is before the final Permanent Residency approval.

OK, two questions:

- - where (which country) were you and your wife born?
- - which category did she file her LC under?

Both born in the UK
LC filled under EB-2


Depending on the answers, the time frame could be anything from "you could
file immediately upon approval, and have employment authorization within 90
days" to "you have to wait four or five years".

For more information about how all that works, I'd like to point you to my
FAQ site at http://www.kkeane.com - in particular, understand the quota
system. There currently is a substantial quota backlog in the EB-3
category, and another backlog may develop in EB-2. On the other hand, the
new quota becomes available October 1, so we will see - temporarily - some
relief.



    > I'd like to
    > be able to give them a rough timescale for when I could be employed,
    > think it might just be a few months after Labor Certification, to see if
    > they're prepared to wait that long.

Well, even if all goes perfectly well, just the paperwork of getting you
employment authorization can take 90 days. So I would give this as a
minimum.


I know Consular processing used to be faster for the final stage compared to Adjustment of Status, is that still the case these days?


Thanks for your help & advice.

Ingo Pakleppa

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powburn wrote:

    > I know Consular processing used to be faster for the final stage
    > compared to Adjustment of Status, is that still the case these days?

That's really hard to say. Right now, I would say not to go for consular
filing. Several reasons:

- - USCIS is very much optimized for concurrent filing of I-140 and I-485 now.
In fact, they announced at some point that I-140s without I-485s will be
processed at a much slower pace.

- - You would have to wait for the I-140 to be approved before you could visit
the consulate.

- - You would have to wait for your priority date to become current AFTER the
I-140 is approved. With concurrent filing, you can file the I-485 as soon
as the PD is current, and get an EAD right away. This can be a real problem
if the priority date retrogresses after your I-140 is filed.

At the same time, concurrent filing eliminated most of the advantages of
consular filing.

- --
Remember, I am strictly a layperson without any legal training. I encourage
everybody to seek competent legal counsel rather than relying on usenet
newsgroups.

Please visit my new FAQ at http://www.kkeane.com (always under construction)

My email address in usenet posts is now invalid for spam protection. See
my Web site for information on how to contact me.

Please feel free to enjoy some of my photographs at my Web site
http://www.ingopakleppa.com ! Comments are welcome.
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powburn

Brief update.

Labor Certification via PERM submitted June 29 2005, certified August 31 2005. So that's the hard bit done.

I'm guessing the LC category doesn't matter anymore.

Now for the petition I-140. Can that be filled at the same time as the Adjustment of Status?

My wife & I were both born in the UK. I know Consular processing used to be faster for the final stage compared to Adjustment of Status, is that still the case these days?

Ingo Pakleppa

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powburn wrote:

    >
    >> > The wife's Labor Certification under Perm is in process just now
    >> > towards
    >> > permanent residency. The 60 days quoted for this to complete
    >> > (approve,
    >> > deny or audit), is that calendar days or working days?
    >> It's really no more than a guess. It would be calendar days, but PERM
    >> is
    >> still so new that there is not enough data available to make any
    >> statistically valid statements. It's as possible that the 60 days are
    >> just
    >> due to a huge influx and them still refining internal procedures (and
    >> will
    >> speed up the process), as that they are falling more and more behind,
    >> and
    >> we might see much longer processing times in the near future.
    >> Well, we've been waiting ~45 working, 60 calendar days so far without
    >> a response, so We'll just have to keep on waiting.
    >> > Once the Labor Certification has been approved, what would be a
    >> > reasonable timescale before I can change status and work?
    >> > I think this is before the final Permanent Residency approval.
    >> OK, two questions:
    >> - - where (which country) were you and your wife born?
    >> - - which category did she file her LC under?
    >> Both born in the UK
    >> LC filled under EB-2
    >> Depending on the answers, the time frame could be anything from "you
    >> could
    >> file immediately upon approval, and have employment authorization
    >> within 90
    >> days" to "you have to wait four or five years".
    >> For more information about how all that works, I'd like to point you
    >> to my
    >> FAQ site at http://www.kkeane.com - in particular, understand the
    >> quota
    >> system. There currently is a substantial quota backlog in the EB-3
    >> category, and another backlog may develop in EB-2. On the other hand,
    >> the
    >> new quota becomes available October 1, so we will see - temporarily -
    >> some
    >> relief.
    >> > I'd like to
    >> > be able to give them a rough timescale for when I could be employed,
    >> > think it might just be a few months after Labor Certification, to
    >> > see if
    >> > they're prepared to wait that long.
    >> Well, even if all goes perfectly well, just the paperwork of getting
    >> you
    >> employment authorization can take 90 days. So I would give this as a
    >> minimum.
    >> I know Consular processing used to be faster for the final stage
    >> compared to Adjustment of Status, is that still the case these days?
    >> Thanks for your help & advice.
    >
    > Brief update.
    >
    > Labor Certification via PERM submitted June 29 2005, certified August 31
    > 2005. So that's the hard bit done.
    >
    > I'm guessing the LC category doesn't matter anymore.

Actually, it does. The category determines which quota applies.

    > Now for the petition I-140. Can that be filled at the same time as the
    > Adjustment of Status?

If it was an EB-3, then no; the quota is currently unavailable. You would
have to wait until your priority date is current. Since you say that it is
an EB-2, you can indeed file both together, since that quota is current.

    > My wife & I were both born in the UK. I know Consular processing used to
    > be faster for the final stage compared to Adjustment of Status, is that
    > still the case these days?

Tough question to answer, but my best guess is that you are better off with
concurrent filing, and forego consular filing. Several reasons:

- - USCIS announced that they will prioritize concurrent filing at the expense
of separate I-140s.

- - You would get most rights of a permanent resident (work, reside in the US
until a decision about your case, travel in and out of the US, and after
180 days even changing employers) just by having filed an I-485. So even if
it takes longer in the end, you may be better off with concurrent filing.

Of course, if yours was an EB-3 case and you expected to have to wait a few
years for the priority date to become current, then consular filing might
make more sense. You would get your immigrant visa pretty much the month
your PD becomes current, instead just being eligible to file the I-485.

A lot depends on your individual circumstances, though.

- --
Remember, I am strictly a layperson without any legal training. I encourage
everybody to seek competent legal counsel rather than relying on usenet
newsgroups.

Please visit my new FAQ at http://www.kkeane.com (always under construction)

My email address in usenet posts is now invalid for spam protection. See
my Web site for information on how to contact me.

Please feel free to enjoy some of my photographs at my Web site
http://www.ingopakleppa.com ! Comments are welcome.
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powburn

It seems the LC category was actually EB-3 after all. Our lawyer is starting the I-140 now and will submit the AoS I-485 once the new quota for 2005/2006 is available October 1st. He said they get notice of the quota numbers around mid September.

Ingo Pakleppa

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powburn wrote:

    >
    >> Brief update.
    >> Labor Certification via PERM submitted June 29 2005, certified August
    >> 31 2005. So that's the hard bit done.
    >> I'm guessing the LC category doesn't matter anymore.
    >> Now for the petition I-140. Can that be filled at the same time as the
    >> Adjustment of Status?
    >> My wife & I were both born in the UK. I know Consular processing used
    >> to be faster for the final stage compared to Adjustment of Status, is
    >> that still the case these days?
    >
    > It seems the LC category was actually EB-3 after all. Our lawyer is
    > starting the I-140 now and will submit the AoS I-485 once the new quota
    > for 2005/2006 is available October 1st. He said they get notice of the
    > quota numbers around mid September.

What is your priority date?

Might be worth waiting until September 15 or so when the new quota numbers
are published. Or simply request consular processing in the first place -
it is relatively easy to switch to I-485, but going from I-485 to consular
processing will be so difficult as to not make it worthwhile.

You may have to battle your attorney on this one a bit; in my experience,
attorneys tend to prefer AOS to consular filing (in part because they have
less control over consular filing, and maybe also out of habit).

It is quite possible that he is right and you can file the I-485 at that
point. But I fear an unpleasant surprise; before the numbers became
unavailable in August, there was a backlog of several years for some
countries. I would not be surprised if we now see a worldwide backlog. In
that case, it *may* be worth going for consular filing, depending on how
far away your priority date is.

In the end, it's all just guesswork.

- --
Remember, I am strictly a layperson without any legal training. I encourage
everybody to seek competent legal counsel rather than relying on usenet
newsgroups.

Please visit my new FAQ at http://www.kkeane.com (always under construction)

My email address in usenet posts is now invalid for spam protection. See
my Web site for information on how to contact me.

Please feel free to enjoy some of my photographs at my Web site
http://www.ingopakleppa.com ! Comments are welcome.
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ladyofthelake

No offense Ingo, but I hope you're wrong. We've been waiting 18 months for my spouse's LC in the Philly backlog office to be processed and still waiting. We were recently told Philadelphia is working on cases pending from 1999. To see the people above having had the extraordinary long wait of 63 days and leap frog in front of us, only to find ourselves in another backlog for the visa itself whenever we get there, is more than I can take at the moment.

deaks

My labor cert (RIR) was at the philly backlog centre, infact it still is. My RIR application was filed in September 2004. My attorney reckons that it wouldn't even start to get looked at for another year.

So we made the decision to refile under PERM. It has meant having to undergo another (more exhaustive) recruitment process, which luckily did not produce one single suitably qualified US worker.

My attorney has just submitted the online PERM application (28th August 2005). I am hoping to hear back fairly soon. It seems that many people have been getting an approval in about two weeks.

I dont think that I (or anyone else) has leapfrogged anyone in the backlog centre on conventional labor cert. It was a tough decision on whether to leave the RIR as it was or to risk a refile under PERM.

Hopefully it will pay off for me in the next couple of weeks, I hope so as the refile added another $3,000 to my legal fees.

I too will be going for green card on EB-3, so I am hoping that my priority date of sept 2004 will be good enough for the next quota.

I got my job offer in November 2003, I still cant believe how long it has taken so far and they (department of labor) still might say NO!!!!!

Deaks

Ingo Pakleppa

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ladyofthelake wrote:

    >> powburn wrote:
    >> >
    >> >> Brief update.
    >> >> Labor Certification via PERM submitted June 29 2005, certified
    >> >> August
    >> >> 31 2005. So that's the hard bit done.
    >> >> I'm guessing the LC category doesn't matter anymore.
    >> >> Now for the petition I-140. Can that be filled at the same time as
    >> >> the
    >> >> Adjustment of Status?
    >> >> My wife & I were both born in the UK. I know Consular processing
    >> >> used
    >> >> to be faster for the final stage compared to Adjustment of Status,
    >> >> is
    >> >> that still the case these days?
    >> >
    >> > It seems the LC category was actually EB-3 after all. Our lawyer is
    >> > starting the I-140 now and will submit the AoS I-485 once the new
    >> > quota
    >> > for 2005/2006 is available October 1st. He said they get notice of
    >> > the
    >> > quota numbers around mid September.
    >> What is your priority date?
    >> Might be worth waiting until September 15 or so when the new quota
    >> numbers
    >> are published. Or simply request consular processing in the first
    >> place -
    >> it is relatively easy to switch to I-485, but going from I-485 to
    >> consular
    >> processing will be so difficult as to not make it worthwhile.
    >> You may have to battle your attorney on this one a bit; in my
    >> experience,
    >> attorneys tend to prefer AOS to consular filing (in part because they
    >> have
    >> less control over consular filing, and maybe also out of habit).
    >> It is quite possible that he is right and you can file the I-485 at
    >> that
    >> point. But I fear an unpleasant surprise; before the numbers became
    >> unavailable in August, there was a backlog of several years for some
    >> countries. I would not be surprised if we now see a worldwide backlog.
    >> In
    >> that case, it *may* be worth going for consular filing, depending on
    >> how
    >> far away your priority date is.
    >> In the end, it's all just guesswork.
    > No offense Ingo, but I hope you're wrong. We've been waiting 18 months
    > for my spouse's LC in the Philly backlog office to be processed and
    > still waiting. We were recently told Philadelphia is working on cases
    > pending from 1999. To see the people above having had the extraordinary
    > long wait of 63 days and leap frog in front of us, only to find
    > ourselves in another backlog for the visa itself whenever we get there,
    > is more than I can take at the moment.

Well, I have good news and bad news for you. The good news first: if a quota
backlog develops, you will be ahead of the other person in line. The date
the LC was filed counts here.

The bad news is that, as you already said, people do leapfrog the LC stage
right now. I hope that is going to change soon. By the way, you are
probably able to change to the PERM process. Talk to your lawyer first,
though, because it is not always a good idea. In any case, it is quite
possible - likely, actually - that PERM will slow down. I already hear that
the 63 days are an abberation that happened only early in the PERM process,
and processing times now are growing again :-(

- --
Remember, I am strictly a layperson without any legal training. I encourage
everybody to seek competent legal counsel rather than relying on usenet
newsgroups.

Please visit my new FAQ at http://www.kkeane.com (always under construction)

My email address in usenet posts is now invalid for spam protection. See
my Web site for information on how to contact me.

Please feel free to enjoy some of my photographs at my Web site
http://www.ingopakleppa.com ! Comments are welcome.
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ladyofthelake

It's the old Supermarket Checkout queue dilemma then. You join one line, only to find it's the longest one there and it's not moving. The big question is whether to move to the fast moving queue in the next row. Sod's Law says that at the precise moment you change, the fast queue will stop moving, whilst the old one will suddenly jolt into life again.
If my hubby changes to PERM now, these last 18 months will have been pointless. I think we are getting to the stage where we've been waiting this long, we can't just give up and start all over again. Knowing that at least this time will help us at the I485 stage is reassuring.

deaks

My attorney tells me that even though we have resubmitted under PERM (and had to do another program of recruitment) because the job is identical in both applications my filing date for the original RIR labor cert will be transfered accross to my PERM application, therefore making my priority date for PERM september 24th 2004.

I found the biggest risk with resubmitting was the chance of a suitable US citizen being found who wanted the job. Luckily this didn't happen and all the advertising has been completed.

MY RIR had only been filed for 6 months before PERM came along. Seeing that you husbands has been filed for over 18 months, the decision to refile would be a tough one.

I really hope that it all comes good for you soon, as much as I am hoping for myself.

Deaks

Ingo Pakleppa

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ladyofthelake wrote:

    >
    >> ladyofthelake wrote:
    >> >> powburn wrote:
    >> >> >
    >> >> >> Brief update.
    >> >> >> Labor Certification via PERM submitted June 29 2005, certified
    >> >> >> August
    >> >> >> 31 2005. So that's the hard bit done.
    >> >> >> I'm guessing the LC category doesn't matter anymore.
    >> >> >> Now for the petition I-140. Can that be filled at the same time
    >> >> >> as
    >> >> >> the
    >> >> >> Adjustment of Status?
    >> >> >> My wife & I were both born in the UK. I know Consular processing
    >> >> >> used
    >> >> >> to be faster for the final stage compared to Adjustment of
    >> >> >> Status,
    >> >> >> is
    >> >> >> that still the case these days?
    >> >> >
    >> >> > It seems the LC category was actually EB-3 after all. Our lawyer
    >> >> > is
    >> >> > starting the I-140 now and will submit the AoS I-485 once the new
    >> >> > quota
    >> >> > for 2005/2006 is available October 1st. He said they get notice
    >> >> > of
    >> >> > the
    >> >> > quota numbers around mid September.
    >> >> What is your priority date?
    >> >> Might be worth waiting until September 15 or so when the new quota
    >> >> numbers
    >> >> are published. Or simply request consular processing in the first
    >> >> place -
    >> >> it is relatively easy to switch to I-485, but going from I-485 to
    >> >> consular
    >> >> processing will be so difficult as to not make it worthwhile.
    >> >> You may have to battle your attorney on this one a bit; in my
    >> >> experience,
    >> >> attorneys tend to prefer AOS to consular filing (in part because
    >> >> they
    >> >> have
    >> >> less control over consular filing, and maybe also out of habit).
    >> >> It is quite possible that he is right and you can file the I-485 at
    >> >> that
    >> >> point. But I fear an unpleasant surprise; before the numbers became
    >> >> unavailable in August, there was a backlog of several years for
    >> >> some
    >> >> countries. I would not be surprised if we now see a worldwide
    >> >> backlog.
    >> >> In
    >> >> that case, it *may* be worth going for consular filing, depending
    >> >> on
    >> >> how
    >> >> far away your priority date is.
    >> >> In the end, it's all just guesswork.
    >> > No offense Ingo, but I hope you're wrong. We've been waiting 18
    >> > months
    >> > for my spouse's LC in the Philly backlog office to be processed and
    >> > still waiting. We were recently told Philadelphia is working on
    >> > cases
    >> > pending from 1999. To see the people above having had the
    >> > extraordinary
    >> > long wait of 63 days and leap frog in front of us, only to find
    >> > ourselves in another backlog for the visa itself whenever we get
    >> > there,
    >> > is more than I can take at the moment.
    >> Well, I have good news and bad news for you. The good news first: if a
    >> quota
    >> backlog develops, you will be ahead of the other person in line. The
    >> date
    >> the LC was filed counts here.
    >> The bad news is that, as you already said, people do leapfrog the LC
    >> stage
    >> right now. I hope that is going to change soon. By the way, you are
    >> probably able to change to the PERM process. Talk to your lawyer
    >> first,
    >> though, because it is not always a good idea. In any case, it is quite
    >> possible - likely, actually - that PERM will slow down. I already hear
    >> that
    >> the 63 days are an abberation that happened only early in the PERM
    >> process,
    >> and processing times now are growing again :-(
    > It's the old Supermarket Checkout queue dilemma then. You join one line,
    > only to find it's the longest one there and it's not moving. The big
    > question is whether to move to the fast moving queue in the next row.
    > Sod's Law says that at the precise moment you change, the fast queue
    > will stop moving, whilst the old one will suddenly jolt into life again.

Actually, no, the situation isn't comparable to the supermarket queue, since
you don't really have to choose between several lines the same way.

    > If my hubby changes to PERM now, these last 18 months will have been
    > pointless.

No; the priority date would be preserved. There are some risks involved,
though, so this is not for everybody.

- --
Remember, I am strictly a layperson without any legal training. I encourage
everybody to seek competent legal counsel rather than relying on usenet
newsgroups.

Please visit my new FAQ at http://www.kkeane.com (always under construction)

My email address in usenet posts is now invalid for spam protection. See
my Web site for information on how to contact me.

Please feel free to enjoy some of my photographs at my Web site
http://www.ingopakleppa.com ! Comments are welcome.
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Ingo Pakleppa

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deaks wrote:

    >
    >> It's the old Supermarket Checkout queue dilemma then. You join one
    >> line, only to find it's the longest one there and it's not moving. The
    >> big question is whether to move to the fast moving queue in the next
    >> row. Sod's Law says that at the precise moment you change, the fast
    >> queue will stop moving, whilst the old one will suddenly jolt into
    >> life again.
    >> If my hubby changes to PERM now, these last 18 months will have been
    >> pointless. I think we are getting to the stage where we've been
    >> waiting this long, we can't just give up and start all over again.
    >> Knowing that at least this time will help us at the I485 stage is
    >> reassuring.
    >
    > My attorney tells me that even though we have resubmitted under PERM
    > (and had to do another program of recruitment) because the job is
    > identical in both applications my filing date for the original RIR labor
    > cert will be transfered accross to my PERM application, therefore making
    > my priority date for PERM september 24th 2004.
    >
    > I found the biggest risk with resubmitting was the chance of a suitable
    > US citizen being found who wanted the job. Luckily this didn't happen
    > and all the advertising has been completed.

Actually, that's not really the biggest risk, since you would know that
before the conversion.

The biggest risk is that DOL may decide that your case does not meet the new
stricter PERM criteria, and denies it. In that case, you would have
basically lost not just the shot at a faster PERM approval, but also the
more generous RIR process.

This is why it's important to discuss the risks of your specific case with
an attorney.

- --
Remember, I am strictly a layperson without any legal training. I encourage
everybody to seek competent legal counsel rather than relying on usenet
newsgroups.

Please visit my new FAQ at http://www.kkeane.com (always under construction)

My email address in usenet posts is now invalid for spam protection. See
my Web site for information on how to contact me.

Please feel free to enjoy some of my photographs at my Web site
http://www.ingopakleppa.com ! Comments are welcome.
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