Grizzly

On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 11:22:36 -0800, Joe Feise <[email protected]> wrote:

    >zico wrote on 03/29/05 08:00:
    >>>I am wondering how many months can I get out of US
    >>>without any prior approval? 3 months? 6 months?
    >>>If I need an approval, where can I get it from?
    >>>Thanks,
    >>>Zen
    >>
    >>
    >> 6 months....I am positive...you got to be back before 6 months pass.
    >>
    >You are positively wrong...
    >A Permanent Resident has to reside in the US. A PR can *temporarily* be
    >abroad for up to 1 year.
    >If the stay abroad is longer than 1 year, the person needs a reentry
    >permit and would have to apply for it *before* leaving.
    >The stay abroad absolutely has to be temporary in nature. You can not
    >just travel to the US once a year for a couple of weeks.

You certainly can. I've been doing that since 1991.

zico

Ok...Ritze, Excuse-moi, pardez-moi, Entschuldigung, sorry...

Excuse my french...You got a point about the "proof positive", but you shouldn't have made that comment about me to begin with...

Now, Donna, can I hear your story, s'il vous plait?

Joe Feise

Grizzly wrote on 03/29/05 14:48:

    > On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 11:22:36 -0800, Joe Feise <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>zico wrote on 03/29/05 08:00:
    >>>>I am wondering how many months can I get out of US
    >>>>without any prior approval? 3 months? 6 months?
    >>>>If I need an approval, where can I get it from?
    >>>>Thanks,
    >>>>Zen
    >>>6 months....I am positive...you got to be back before 6 months pass.
    >>You are positively wrong...
    >>A Permanent Resident has to reside in the US. A PR can *temporarily* be
    >>abroad for up to 1 year.
    >>If the stay abroad is longer than 1 year, the person needs a reentry
    >>permit and would have to apply for it *before* leaving.
    >>The stay abroad absolutely has to be temporary in nature. You can not
    >>just travel to the US once a year for a couple of weeks.
    >
    >
    > You certainly can. I've been doing that since 1991.
    >


Then you've been lucky. That is illegal, and eventually will get you
into trouble. They nowadays track comings and goings, and know exactly
how long you've been out of the country.
A Permanent Resident has to *permanently reside" in the US. It is called
"permanent Resident" for a reason.

-Joe


--
I am not a lawyer.
For reliable advice, consult a competent immigration attorney.

Elvira

Mais non, ce n'est pas possible! Voellig ausgeschlossen - first you have to (a) get my name right , and (b) pick up on the joke in my previous post

I mean, you did 'get' it, n'est pas - even if it was a lame one...?

Grizzly

On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 15:30:22 -0800, Joe Feise <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Grizzly wrote on 03/29/05 14:48:
    >> On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 11:22:36 -0800, Joe Feise <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>zico wrote on 03/29/05 08:00:
    >>>>>I am wondering how many months can I get out of US
    >>>>>without any prior approval? 3 months? 6 months?
    >>>>>If I need an approval, where can I get it from?
    >>>>>Thanks,
    >>>>>Zen
    >>>>6 months....I am positive...you got to be back before 6 months pass.
    >>>You are positively wrong...
    >>>A Permanent Resident has to reside in the US. A PR can *temporarily* be
    >>>abroad for up to 1 year.
    >>>If the stay abroad is longer than 1 year, the person needs a reentry
    >>>permit and would have to apply for it *before* leaving.
    >>>The stay abroad absolutely has to be temporary in nature. You can not
    >>>just travel to the US once a year for a couple of weeks.
    >>
    >>
    >> You certainly can. I've been doing that since 1991.
    >>
    >Then you've been lucky.

No, I've been careful.

    >That is illegal, and eventually will get you
    >into trouble.

I have no problem with it being "illegal", although I'm not quite sure
what you mean. I've been keeping my options open by keeping my Green
Card, but it's becoming a matter of indifference.

    >They nowadays track comings and goings, and know exactly
    >how long you've been out of the country.

True, they no longer ask how long one has been out of the country at
the point of entry, but my absences have never been questioned.
I suspect what they see on the screen is only the entry dates, not the
departure dates.

    >A Permanent Resident has to *permanently reside" in the US. It is called
    > "permanent Resident" for a reason.

But a permanent resident doesn't have to be permanently physically
present in the US.

Joe Feise

Grizzly wrote on 03/30/05 23:32:

    >>That is illegal, and eventually will get you
    >>into trouble.
    >
    >
    > I have no problem with it being "illegal", although I'm not quite sure
    > what you mean. I've been keeping my options open by keeping my Green
    > Card, but it's becoming a matter of indifference.


A Permanent Resident has to reside in the US. You lose the GC the moment
you abandon your residence in the US. Even though INS/CIS may have not
caught up with you, you are using your GC to enter even though you have
abandoned it. That's the illegal part.

    > True, they no longer ask how long one has been out of the country at
    > the point of entry, but my absences have never been questioned.
    > I suspect what they see on the screen is only the entry dates, not the
    > departure dates.


They see the departure dates as well. They get that information from the
airlines (a new law that was enacted after 9/11.)

    >>A Permanent Resident has to *permanently reside" in the US. It is called
    >>"permanent Resident" for a reason.
    >
    >
    > But a permanent resident doesn't have to be permanently physically
    > present in the US.

Sure, but *all* trips abroad have to be temporary in nature. Living and
working abroad and visiting the US once in a while is not a temporary
absence.
Here is something to read:
http://www.visalaw.com/01jan4/12jan401.html
http://www.americanlaw.com/maintlpr.html
http://antaoandchuang.com/i-keeping.html
And many more...

-Joe
--
I am not a lawyer.
For reliable advice, consult a competent immigration attorney.

Celtic_Angel

I thought you needed a re-entry permit anyway unless you're just going back for a vacation?

Grizzly

On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 00:20:49 -0800, Joe Feise <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Grizzly wrote on 03/30/05 23:32:
    >>>That is illegal, and eventually will get you
    >>>into trouble.
    >>
    >>
    >> I have no problem with it being "illegal", although I'm not quite sure
    >> what you mean. I've been keeping my options open by keeping my Green
    >> Card, but it's becoming a matter of indifference.
    >A Permanent Resident has to reside in the US. You lose the GC the moment
    >you abandon your residence in the US. Even though INS/CIS may have not
    >caught up with you, you are using your GC to enter even though you have
    >abandoned it. That's the illegal part.

I have not abandoned my domicile/residence. I maintain bank accounts,
credit cards, a US "driver license" etc. However circumstances
require my frequent and extended absences from the US. As regards
the illegality aspect, having one's Green Card taken away at the point
of entry is merely an administrative procedure, not a criminal
conviction.

    >> True, they no longer ask how long one has been out of the country at
    >> the point of entry, but my absences have never been questioned.
    >> I suspect what they see on the screen is only the entry dates, not the
    >> departure dates.
    >They see the departure dates as well. They get that information from the
    >airlines (a new law that was enacted after 9/11.)

There is no evidence that this information, in a usable form, actually
reaches the immigration people at the point of entry.

    >>>A Permanent Resident has to *permanently reside" in the US. It is called
    >>>"permanent Resident" for a reason.
    >>
    >>
    >> But a permanent resident doesn't have to be permanently physically
    >> present in the US.
    >Sure, but *all* trips abroad have to be temporary in nature. Living and
    >working abroad and visiting the US once in a while is not a temporary
    >absence.
    >Here is something to read:
    >http://www.visalaw.com/01jan4/12jan401.html
    >http://www.americanlaw.com/maintlpr.html
    >http://antaoandchuang.com/i-keeping.html
    >And many more...

These are unnecessarily alarmist, especially the last of the three,
which borders on paranoia. I've crossed the Atlantic hundreds of
times - this just doesn't happen.

Joe Feise

Grizzly wrote on 03/31/05 08:02:

    > On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 00:20:49 -0800, Joe Feise <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Grizzly wrote on 03/30/05 23:32:
    >>>>That is illegal, and eventually will get you
    >>>>into trouble.
    >>>I have no problem with it being "illegal", although I'm not quite sure
    >>>what you mean. I've been keeping my options open by keeping my Green
    >>>Card, but it's becoming a matter of indifference.
    >>A Permanent Resident has to reside in the US. You lose the GC the moment
    >>you abandon your residence in the US. Even though INS/CIS may have not
    >>caught up with you, you are using your GC to enter even though you have
    >>abandoned it. That's the illegal part.
    >
    >
    > I have not abandoned my domicile/residence. I maintain bank accounts,
    > credit cards, a US "driver license" etc. However circumstances
    > require my frequent and extended absences from the US. As regards
    > the illegality aspect, having one's Green Card taken away at the point
    > of entry is merely an administrative procedure, not a criminal
    > conviction.


And do you pay US taxes on your worldwide income? File tax returns as
resident?
I also notice your sudden change in formulations. All of a sudden you
don't "just visit once a year for a couple of weeks," you have
"absences" from the US.
As I said, just visiting once in a while is not enough to keep the GC.
With your change in formulations, you seem to have accepted that.

    >>>True, they no longer ask how long one has been out of the country at
    >>>the point of entry, but my absences have never been questioned.
    >>>I suspect what they see on the screen is only the entry dates, not the
    >>>departure dates.
    >>They see the departure dates as well. They get that information from the
    >>airlines (a new law that was enacted after 9/11.)
    >
    >
    > There is no evidence that this information, in a usable form, actually
    > reaches the immigration people at the point of entry.


It does. They know the exact duration of your stay abroad.

    >>>>A Permanent Resident has to *permanently reside" in the US. It is called
    >>>>"permanent Resident" for a reason.
    >>>But a permanent resident doesn't have to be permanently physically
    >>>present in the US.
    >>Sure, but *all* trips abroad have to be temporary in nature. Living and
    >>working abroad and visiting the US once in a while is not a temporary
    >>absence.
    >>Here is something to read:
    >>http://www.visalaw.com/01jan4/12jan401.html
    >>http://www.americanlaw.com/maintlpr.html
    >>http://antaoandchuang.com/i-keeping.html
    >>And many more...
    >
    >
    > These are unnecessarily alarmist, especially the last of the three,
    > which borders on paranoia. I've crossed the Atlantic hundreds of
    > times - this just doesn't happen.

Paranoia or not, it *does* happen. I heard from people who did the same
as you and got questioned for hours, and that was before 9/11...
Closing your eyes before reality doesn't change it.
All stays abroad have to be temporary in nature. Period. End of story.

-Joe
--
I am not a lawyer.
For reliable advice, consult a competent immigration attorney.

scrubbedexpat099

I have seen other postings from those who have had issues with their GC entry, some sucesfull, some not.

What we do not know is what the chances are of being questioned in depth.

Inevitably you will hear the tales of woe here more than no issue entries.

Personally I think its only an issue if it matters to you, if its just a coveniance then fair enough, take the chance.

Not sure I would take a chance if it had major ramifications.

silvermine

i wouldn't bet on that! they may not get the info from the airlines necessarily but they sure have it, or at least part of it...

Hazel

In article <[email protected]>, zen
kishimoto <[email protected]> wrote:

    > I am wondering how many months can I get out of US
    > without any prior approval? 3 months? 6 months?
    > If I need an approval, where can I get it from?
    >
    > Thanks,
    >
    > Zen

If you are planning to be away for longer than a year, you will need a
re-entry permit. However, if you stay out of the US for longer than six
months, you interrupt the residency requirements for naturalization.
Therefore it is a good idea not to have an absence from the country
longer than six months.

Hazel

grizzly1040

Joe Feise wrote:
    > Grizzly wrote on 03/31/05 08:02:
    > > On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 00:20:49 -0800, Joe Feise <[email protected]>
wrote:
    > >
    > >
    > >>Grizzly wrote on 03/30/05 23:32:
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>>>That is illegal, and eventually will get you
    > >>>>into trouble.
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>I have no problem with it being "illegal", although I'm not quite
sure
    > >>>what you mean. I've been keeping my options open by keeping my
Green
    > >>>Card, but it's becoming a matter of indifference.
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>A Permanent Resident has to reside in the US. You lose the GC the
moment
    > >>you abandon your residence in the US. Even though INS/CIS may have
not
    > >>caught up with you, you are using your GC to enter even though you
have
    > >>abandoned it. That's the illegal part.
    > >
    > >
    > > I have not abandoned my domicile/residence. I maintain bank
accounts,
    > > credit cards, a US "driver license" etc. However circumstances
    > > require my frequent and extended absences from the US. As regards
    > > the illegality aspect, having one's Green Card taken away at the
point
    > > of entry is merely an administrative procedure, not a criminal
    > > conviction.
    > And do you pay US taxes on your worldwide income? File tax returns as
    > resident?

There's no need to file below a certain income threshold.

    > I also notice your sudden change in formulations. All of a sudden you
    > don't "just visit once a year for a couple of weeks," you have
    > "absences" from the US.
    > As I said, just visiting once in a while is not enough to keep the
GC.
    > With your change in formulations, you seem to have accepted that.

It's simply an alternative way of presenting exactly the same facts.

    > >>>True, they no longer ask how long one has been out of the country
at
    > >>>the point of entry, but my absences have never been questioned.
    > >>>I suspect what they see on the screen is only the entry dates, not
the
    > >>>departure dates.
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>They see the departure dates as well. They get that information
from the
    > >>airlines (a new law that was enacted after 9/11.)
    > >
    > >
    > > There is no evidence that this information, in a usable form,
actually
    > > reaches the immigration people at the point of entry.
    > It does. They know the exact duration of your stay abroad.

I'm not convinced. How are the land borders with Canada and Mexico
controlled? How do airlines scan Green Cards that can't be scanned?
Too many gaps for the information to be reliable.

    > >>>>A Permanent Resident has to *permanently reside" in the US. It is
called
    > >>>>"permanent Resident" for a reason.
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>But a permanent resident doesn't have to be permanently physically
    > >>>present in the US.
    > >>
    > >>Sure, but *all* trips abroad have to be temporary in nature. Living
and
    > >>working abroad and visiting the US once in a while is not a
temporary
    > >>absence.
    > >>Here is something to read:
    > >>http://www.visalaw.com/01jan4/12jan401.html
    > >>http://www.americanlaw.com/maintlpr.html
    > >>http://antaoandchuang.com/i-keeping.html
    > >>And many more...
    > >
    > >
    > > These are unnecessarily alarmist, especially the last of the three,
    > > which borders on paranoia. I've crossed the Atlantic hundreds of
    > > times - this just doesn't happen.
    > Paranoia or not, it *does* happen. I heard from people who did the
same
    > as you and got questioned for hours, and that was before 9/11...

Shit happens. People get nervous/careless. If someone really doesn't
care, it shows.

    > Closing your eyes before reality doesn't change it.
    > All stays abroad have to be temporary in nature. Period. End of
story.

The reality is that people do whatever they can get away with. Your
advice, though well intentioned, is probably more suitable for someone
from a Third World hellhole for whom it is a matter of life and death
than for someone such as myself.

grizzly1040

silvermine wrote:
    > > On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 00:20:49 -0800, Joe Feise <[email protected]>
wrote:
    > >
    > > >Grizzly wrote on 03/30/05 23:32:
    > > >>>That is illegal, and eventually will get you
    > > >>>into trouble.
    > > >>
    > > >>
    > > >> I have no problem with it being "illegal", although I'm not
quite
    > > >> sure
    > > >> what you mean. I've been keeping my options open by keeping my
    > > >> Green
    > > >> Card, but it's becoming a matter of indifference.
    > > >A Permanent Resident has to reside in the US. You lose the GC the
    > > >moment
    > > >you abandon your residence in the US. Even though INS/CIS may have
    > > >not
    > > >caught up with you, you are using your GC to enter even though you
    > > >have
    > > >abandoned it. That's the illegal part.
    > >
    > > I have not abandoned my domicile/residence. I maintain bank
accounts,
    > > credit cards, a US "driver license" etc. However circumstances
    > > require my frequent and extended absences from the US. As regards
    > > the illegality aspect, having one's Green Card taken away at the
point
    > > of entry is merely an administrative procedure, not a criminal
    > > conviction.
    > >
    > > >> True, they no longer ask how long one has been out of the
country
    > > >> at
    > > >> the point of entry, but my absences have never been questioned.
    > > >> I suspect what they see on the screen is only the entry dates,
not
    > > >> the
    > > >> departure dates.
    > > >They see the departure dates as well. They get that information
from
    > > >the
    > > >airlines (a new law that was enacted after 9/11.)
    > >
    > > There is no evidence that this information, in a usable form,
actually
    > > reaches the immigration people at the point of entry.
    > >
    > > >>>A Permanent Resident has to *permanently reside" in the US. It
is
    > > >>>called
    > > >>>"permanent Resident" for a reason.
    > > >>
    > > >>
    > > >> But a permanent resident doesn't have to be permanently
physically
    > > >> present in the US.
    > > >Sure, but *all* trips abroad have to be temporary in nature.
Living
    > > >and
    > > >working abroad and visiting the US once in a while is not a
temporary
    > > >absence.
    > > >Here is something to read:
    > > >http://www.visalaw.com/01jan4/12jan401.html
    > > >http://www.americanlaw.com/maintlpr.html
    > > >http://antaoandchuang.com/i-keeping.html
    > > >And many more...
    > >
    > > These are unnecessarily alarmist, especially the last of the three,
    > > which borders on paranoia. I've crossed the Atlantic hundreds of
    > > times - this just doesn't happen.
    > i wouldn't bet on that! they may not get the info from the airlines
    > necessarily but they sure have it, or at least part of it...

And nobody seems to know which part they have.

Joe Feise

[email protected] wrote on 03/31/05 22:21:

    >>i wouldn't bet on that! they may not get the info from the airlines
    >>necessarily but they sure have it, or at least part of it...
    >
    >
    > And nobody seems to know which part they have.

Of course it is known. You just act like the three monkeys, you refuse
to see it. It is in INA 231:
"INA: ACT 231 - LISTS OF ALIEN AND CITIZEN PASSENGERS *ARRIVING* OR
*DEPARTING*; RECORD OF RESIDENT ALIENS AND CITIZENS LEAVING PERMANENTLY
FOR FOREIGN COUNTRY
SEC. 231. 1/ (a) ARRIVAL MANIFESTS- For each commercial vessel or
aircraft transporting any person to any seaport or airport of the United
States from any place outside the United States, it shall be the duty of
an appropriate official specified in subsection (d) to provide to any
United States *border officer* (as defined in subsection (i)) at that
port manifest information about each passenger, crew member, and other
occupant transported on such vessel or aircraft prior to arrival at that
port.
(b) DEPARTURE MANIFESTS- For each commercial vessel or aircraft taking
passengers on board at any seaport or airport of the United States, who
are destined to any place outside the United States, it shall be the
duty of an appropriate official specified in subsection (d) to provide
any United States *border officer* (as defined in subsection (i))before
departure from such port manifest information about each passenger, crew
member, and other occupant to be transported.
(c) CONTENTS OF MANIFEST- The information to be provided with respect to
each person listed on a manifest required to be provided under
subsection (a) or (b) shall include--
(1) complete name;
(2) date of birth;
(3) citizenship;
(4) sex;
(5) passport number and country of issuance;
(6) country of residence;
(7) United States visa number, date, and place of issuance, where
applicable;
(8) alien registration number, where applicable;
(9) United States address while in the United States; and
(10) such other information the Attorney General, in consultation with
the Secretary of State, and the Secretary of Treasury determines as
being necessary for the identification of the persons transported and
for the enforcement of the immigration laws and to protect safety and
national security."
--
I am not a lawyer.
For reliable advice, consult a competent immigration attorney.