How can I have a baby in the US ?
Jul 13th 2002, 3:20 am
#91
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can I have a baby in the US ?
"Andy Platt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> "James Donovan" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Personally I think citizenship rules should be changed, where the only people who
> > should be born citizens are those who have at least one USC or PR parent.
>
> I agree but the word "rules" is a little soft here - it's part of the constitution
> so would require an amendment which makes it much harder.
Then I think it's time we as citizens and legal immigrants lobby our politicians to
effect such a change.
news:<[email protected]>...
> "James Donovan" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Personally I think citizenship rules should be changed, where the only people who
> > should be born citizens are those who have at least one USC or PR parent.
>
> I agree but the word "rules" is a little soft here - it's part of the constitution
> so would require an amendment which makes it much harder.
Then I think it's time we as citizens and legal immigrants lobby our politicians to
effect such a change.
Jul 13th 2002, 9:20 am
#92
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can I have a baby in the US ?
On Thu, 11 Jul 2002 06:04:43 -0700, James Donovan wrote:
> Ingo Pakleppa <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>. ..
>
>> I have the feeling that working for DSS may have left you with a biased sample.
>> Nobody is arguing that such people exist. But there is a second category of
>> illegal alien - and a much larger: those who sweep the streets, vacuum our
>> offices, harvest our vegetables, etc.
>
> There is a third category of illegal alien too. Those who kill, rob, rape, steal,
> fly planes into buildings etc.
And then there is Charles Manson. Jeffrey Dahmer. Timothy McVeigh. If there is any
correlation between citizenship (or illegal alienship), it is that there are fewer
criminals among illegal aliens (in otherwise comparable demographics).
>> There is a reason the employer community is lobbying so strongly against
>> enforcement of immigration laws (although - don't misunderstand me here
>> - I do think this is wrong).
>
> I would understand it too, but so many US citizens are now out of work, therefore
> there should be plenty people to fill those jobs. This is provided of course that
> employers want to pay minimum wage. You will find that the only reason they hire
> illegals is because they can get them cheap, and they are virtually slaves. They
> can't leave because their "employer" constantly threatens to report them to INS.
There is a flaw in this reasoning: US citizens who are out of work tend to be out of
work for a short time and in the wrong professions. It doesn't help a software
developer from Silicon Valley at all if six months later a job as a harvest helper
opens up in Texas! Of course we could tell all out-of-work software developers or
flight attendants to change to become farm hands - but we'd be shooting ourselves in
the foot as soon as the economy picks up and we need software developers and flight
attendants again.
>> Basically, there are two main arguments used against illegal immigration: "we pay
>> their welfare" and "they take our jobs" - but few people realize that these two
>> arguments are actually contradictory. Personally, I'd be in favor of an essential
>> worker visa in order to allow such workers to come to the US legally and be
>> protected by the same labor laws as US citizens.
>
>
> Ahhh... Companies would be opposed to such a visa because they would have to pay
> minimum wage, which the currently do not do to illegal aliens. Incidentally, I
> believe there is a seasonal farm labor visa (H-2A I think it is) but it is hardly
> used because employers can still import illegal aliens for so much cheaper and pay
> them next to nothing.
The problem with the H-2A is that the red tape makes it near impossible to use. By
the time an H-2A is approved, the crop has long rotted on the fields!
>> > Imagine when they can take this amount while being illegal, imagine when they
>> > are given amnesty and eventually become citizens.
>>
>> Don't worry, as a general rule, even if there was an amnesty, illegal aliens who
>> received welfare would be barred from using the amnesty (based on the "public
>> charge" ground of inadmissibility).
>
> But nothing stops those who were not on welfare before from going on welfare
> later on.
Actually, something does: an alien who holds a Green Card can become deportable if he
draws welfare and cannot show that the reason arose after he got his Green Card.
>> In any case, such an amnesty is exceedingly rare. To my knowledge, there only ever
>> was one, and that is almost two decades ago (1986).
>
> 245(i) is a de-facto amnesty.
245(i) has nothing to do with an amnesty, although it has often falsely be presented
as such in the press. An amnesty allows somebody who is illegally and isn't
qualified for a Green Card in the US to remain. Basically, it allows illegal
aliens to have their slate wiped clean and get a Green Card.
245(j) does not do that. It does not authorize a single Green Card for anybody who
wouldn't already be eligible anyway. All it does is allow processing of the
Green Card at an INS office rather than at a consulate. Every single applicant
for 245(i) still has to be eligible - for instance, a husband or wife of a US
citizen. 245(i) primarily provided a convenience (today it also helps to avoid
a catch-22, where two laws interact in an unanticipated way).
In fact, 245(i) was actually conceived mostly as a revenue generator. The convenience
of being able to apply in the US rather than their home country costs a fine of
$1000, which contributed a substantial amount to the INS budget.
Ingo
> Ingo Pakleppa <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>. ..
>
>> I have the feeling that working for DSS may have left you with a biased sample.
>> Nobody is arguing that such people exist. But there is a second category of
>> illegal alien - and a much larger: those who sweep the streets, vacuum our
>> offices, harvest our vegetables, etc.
>
> There is a third category of illegal alien too. Those who kill, rob, rape, steal,
> fly planes into buildings etc.
And then there is Charles Manson. Jeffrey Dahmer. Timothy McVeigh. If there is any
correlation between citizenship (or illegal alienship), it is that there are fewer
criminals among illegal aliens (in otherwise comparable demographics).
>> There is a reason the employer community is lobbying so strongly against
>> enforcement of immigration laws (although - don't misunderstand me here
>> - I do think this is wrong).
>
> I would understand it too, but so many US citizens are now out of work, therefore
> there should be plenty people to fill those jobs. This is provided of course that
> employers want to pay minimum wage. You will find that the only reason they hire
> illegals is because they can get them cheap, and they are virtually slaves. They
> can't leave because their "employer" constantly threatens to report them to INS.
There is a flaw in this reasoning: US citizens who are out of work tend to be out of
work for a short time and in the wrong professions. It doesn't help a software
developer from Silicon Valley at all if six months later a job as a harvest helper
opens up in Texas! Of course we could tell all out-of-work software developers or
flight attendants to change to become farm hands - but we'd be shooting ourselves in
the foot as soon as the economy picks up and we need software developers and flight
attendants again.
>> Basically, there are two main arguments used against illegal immigration: "we pay
>> their welfare" and "they take our jobs" - but few people realize that these two
>> arguments are actually contradictory. Personally, I'd be in favor of an essential
>> worker visa in order to allow such workers to come to the US legally and be
>> protected by the same labor laws as US citizens.
>
>
> Ahhh... Companies would be opposed to such a visa because they would have to pay
> minimum wage, which the currently do not do to illegal aliens. Incidentally, I
> believe there is a seasonal farm labor visa (H-2A I think it is) but it is hardly
> used because employers can still import illegal aliens for so much cheaper and pay
> them next to nothing.
The problem with the H-2A is that the red tape makes it near impossible to use. By
the time an H-2A is approved, the crop has long rotted on the fields!
>> > Imagine when they can take this amount while being illegal, imagine when they
>> > are given amnesty and eventually become citizens.
>>
>> Don't worry, as a general rule, even if there was an amnesty, illegal aliens who
>> received welfare would be barred from using the amnesty (based on the "public
>> charge" ground of inadmissibility).
>
> But nothing stops those who were not on welfare before from going on welfare
> later on.
Actually, something does: an alien who holds a Green Card can become deportable if he
draws welfare and cannot show that the reason arose after he got his Green Card.
>> In any case, such an amnesty is exceedingly rare. To my knowledge, there only ever
>> was one, and that is almost two decades ago (1986).
>
> 245(i) is a de-facto amnesty.
245(i) has nothing to do with an amnesty, although it has often falsely be presented
as such in the press. An amnesty allows somebody who is illegally and isn't
qualified for a Green Card in the US to remain. Basically, it allows illegal
aliens to have their slate wiped clean and get a Green Card.
245(j) does not do that. It does not authorize a single Green Card for anybody who
wouldn't already be eligible anyway. All it does is allow processing of the
Green Card at an INS office rather than at a consulate. Every single applicant
for 245(i) still has to be eligible - for instance, a husband or wife of a US
citizen. 245(i) primarily provided a convenience (today it also helps to avoid
a catch-22, where two laws interact in an unanticipated way).
In fact, 245(i) was actually conceived mostly as a revenue generator. The convenience
of being able to apply in the US rather than their home country costs a fine of
$1000, which contributed a substantial amount to the INS budget.
Ingo
Jul 13th 2002, 9:20 am
#93
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can I have a baby in the US ?
On Thu, 11 Jul 2002 15:18:54 -0700, James Donovan wrote:
> [email protected] (Bodza Bodza) wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]. com>...
>> [email protected] (James Donovan) wrote in message
>> > Many moons ago, I used to work with the NYC Dept. of Social Services (which has
>> > now been renamed Human Resources Administration). It was simply shocking to see
>> > the number of illegal alien parents applying for benefits. They were perfectly
>> > eligible, because their children were born US citizens. It is simply amazing
>> > that this sort of thing went on for years and no one even cared to do anything
>> > about it.
>>
>> In your own words the parents were eligible because their children were born US
>> citizens.
>>
>> You then go on to say "this sort of thing went on for years and no one even cared
>> to do anything about it".
>>
>> Do anything about WHAT? The fact that the parents are claiming benefits they are
>> ENTITLED to IN YOUR OWN WORDS.
>>
>> Stop with the xeno-phobic rhetoric already.
>
> It is not xenophobic rhetoric. I am very much in favour of immigration that is done
> LEGALLY. Illegal immigration seriously cheats those who play by the rules.
In that case, you should be in favor of an extension of 245(i). It serves to make
legal immigration easier - not, as many people falsely claim, offer an "amnesty" to
illegal immigrants.
>
>> If "illegal aliens" are claiming benefits to which they are NOT ENTITLED that is
>> one thing but where the hell do you get off saying that it is bad that they claim
>> benefits SIMPLY because they are in the country in breach of immigration rules?
>
> It is bad because they use their US born children to stay in the country illegally
> and steal from the system.
>
>
>> It is like saying a person who is in the country in breach of the rules is bad
>> through and through and someone born there is a
>> god-fearing-apple-pie-eating-all-american good person. Gimme a break. There are
>> plenty of hard working law abiding "illegal aliens" who other than the fact they
>> are here illegally they are BETTER citizens than most of the US born.
>
> They broke the law, how can they be "better" citizens? Being a good citizen starts
> with respecting the LAW, which illegal aliens have not done.
Would you argue that a slave who ran away in 1850 was also automatically a worse
citizen because he broke the law? Come on, when the rules apply to some people but
not to others, you are comparing apples to oranges. You can only consider violations
that a US citizen can do as well as a non-citizen.
> It also means paying your TAXES, which illegal aliens do not do.
Says who? Illegal aliens fall into two major groups: very low-income (who don't have
to pay taxes anyway) and higher-income, who in most cases do pay taxes because the
IRS does have some serious teeth.
> It also means willingness to serve in the US military, which illegal aliens can
> only do if drafted.
Strangely enough, since Bush's speech last week, the military actually does offer an
amnesty of sorts to illegal aliens (I did forget about that one). An illegal alien
who signs up for the military is now immediately eligible for not just a Green Card
but US citizenship. True, it is illegal to do that - but just like other employers,
the US military does not always check the documents completely.
I am sure the number of such aliens is small, but they exist, and Bush's new policy
is actually designed to encourage illegal aliens to enlist, and then come forward.
Ingo
> [email protected] (Bodza Bodza) wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]. com>...
>> [email protected] (James Donovan) wrote in message
>> > Many moons ago, I used to work with the NYC Dept. of Social Services (which has
>> > now been renamed Human Resources Administration). It was simply shocking to see
>> > the number of illegal alien parents applying for benefits. They were perfectly
>> > eligible, because their children were born US citizens. It is simply amazing
>> > that this sort of thing went on for years and no one even cared to do anything
>> > about it.
>>
>> In your own words the parents were eligible because their children were born US
>> citizens.
>>
>> You then go on to say "this sort of thing went on for years and no one even cared
>> to do anything about it".
>>
>> Do anything about WHAT? The fact that the parents are claiming benefits they are
>> ENTITLED to IN YOUR OWN WORDS.
>>
>> Stop with the xeno-phobic rhetoric already.
>
> It is not xenophobic rhetoric. I am very much in favour of immigration that is done
> LEGALLY. Illegal immigration seriously cheats those who play by the rules.
In that case, you should be in favor of an extension of 245(i). It serves to make
legal immigration easier - not, as many people falsely claim, offer an "amnesty" to
illegal immigrants.
>
>> If "illegal aliens" are claiming benefits to which they are NOT ENTITLED that is
>> one thing but where the hell do you get off saying that it is bad that they claim
>> benefits SIMPLY because they are in the country in breach of immigration rules?
>
> It is bad because they use their US born children to stay in the country illegally
> and steal from the system.
>
>
>> It is like saying a person who is in the country in breach of the rules is bad
>> through and through and someone born there is a
>> god-fearing-apple-pie-eating-all-american good person. Gimme a break. There are
>> plenty of hard working law abiding "illegal aliens" who other than the fact they
>> are here illegally they are BETTER citizens than most of the US born.
>
> They broke the law, how can they be "better" citizens? Being a good citizen starts
> with respecting the LAW, which illegal aliens have not done.
Would you argue that a slave who ran away in 1850 was also automatically a worse
citizen because he broke the law? Come on, when the rules apply to some people but
not to others, you are comparing apples to oranges. You can only consider violations
that a US citizen can do as well as a non-citizen.
> It also means paying your TAXES, which illegal aliens do not do.
Says who? Illegal aliens fall into two major groups: very low-income (who don't have
to pay taxes anyway) and higher-income, who in most cases do pay taxes because the
IRS does have some serious teeth.
> It also means willingness to serve in the US military, which illegal aliens can
> only do if drafted.
Strangely enough, since Bush's speech last week, the military actually does offer an
amnesty of sorts to illegal aliens (I did forget about that one). An illegal alien
who signs up for the military is now immediately eligible for not just a Green Card
but US citizenship. True, it is illegal to do that - but just like other employers,
the US military does not always check the documents completely.
I am sure the number of such aliens is small, but they exist, and Bush's new policy
is actually designed to encourage illegal aliens to enlist, and then come forward.
Ingo
Jul 13th 2002, 9:20 am
#94
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: the bottom line. Re: How can I have a baby in the US ?
> There is a third category of illegal alien too. Those who kill, rob, rape, steal,
> fly planes into buildings etc.
mm, first of all, the people that flew planes into buildings weren't illegal aliens;
they had their visas and such. i think you fail to realize that one does not need to
be illegal to rape, steal, kill and rob. of course that some do, but it's just plain
silly to say what you said. it even strikes me as stupidity. second, illegal aliens
arent entitled to welfare, unemployment benefits, food stamps and the like. and if
they had a USC baby that they were claiming benefits for, what's the fuss all about?
the illegal parents don't have any rights, but the baby does, as much as the baby
next door. and imagine how much money it would actually be.
> I would understand it too, but so many US citizens are now out of work, therefore
> there should be plenty people to fill those jobs. This is provided of course that
> employers want to pay minimum wage. You will find that the only reason they hire
> illegals is because they can get them cheap, and they are virtually slaves. They
> can't leave because their "employer" constantly threatens to report them to INS.
have you ever been to a mcdonalds? a lot of people that work at mcdonalds are
illegal. i know that for a fact. they use ITIN's (taxpayer identification numbers for
people that arent eligible for a ssn), they pay taxes, they have driver's licences.
they own cars, rent apartments. now you wouldnt think that the person that hired them
will be threatening to report them to the INS, because they arent supposed to know
that those very people arent supposed to be working in the us. mcdonalds pays just a
little bit over minimus wage, and guess what? american teenagers dont wanna work at
mickey d's. so they hire whoever fills out an application -that's willing to take
home the ridiculous $6 dollars an hour that they pay.
and as Ingo said:
> > Thanks for making that clear. I'd like to go one step further and say that, if
> > anything, illegal immigrants are *less* likely to seek such benefits than US
> > citizens and legal residents.
he's right.
"James Donovan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Ocean" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected] m>...
> > All immigrants are bad, citizens are good.
>
> If you are referring solely to illegal immigrants, you are 100% correct. Why?
> Illegal immigrants undercut citizen and permanent resident wages. Illegal
> immigrants do not pay taxes. Illegal immigrants make it harder for legal immigrants
> because INS makes so many rules to combat the flood of illegal immigrants.
>
> > Because immigrants always trying to get the same good life conditions as
> > sitizens, and INS make it so hard and tricky for them that they always
brake
> > the LAW and become criminals, and criminals are bad.
>
> The reason the INS makes things so hard is because of illegal immigrants, not the
> other way around. Legal immigrants are playing by the rules and often get the
> shitty end of the stick because illegal immigrants broke the rules. Don't you even
> understand? This is selfish behaviour on the part of illegal immigrants. They have
> no idea of how much of the immigration system they have overloaded and slowed down
> and totally destroyed by their totally selfish border jumping behaviour. All they
> care about is their own selfish personal ambition and everyone else can go to hell.
> That is why I have absolutely no sympathy when illegal aliens from any country are
> rounded up, detained, deported and excluded from the United States.
> fly planes into buildings etc.
mm, first of all, the people that flew planes into buildings weren't illegal aliens;
they had their visas and such. i think you fail to realize that one does not need to
be illegal to rape, steal, kill and rob. of course that some do, but it's just plain
silly to say what you said. it even strikes me as stupidity. second, illegal aliens
arent entitled to welfare, unemployment benefits, food stamps and the like. and if
they had a USC baby that they were claiming benefits for, what's the fuss all about?
the illegal parents don't have any rights, but the baby does, as much as the baby
next door. and imagine how much money it would actually be.
> I would understand it too, but so many US citizens are now out of work, therefore
> there should be plenty people to fill those jobs. This is provided of course that
> employers want to pay minimum wage. You will find that the only reason they hire
> illegals is because they can get them cheap, and they are virtually slaves. They
> can't leave because their "employer" constantly threatens to report them to INS.
have you ever been to a mcdonalds? a lot of people that work at mcdonalds are
illegal. i know that for a fact. they use ITIN's (taxpayer identification numbers for
people that arent eligible for a ssn), they pay taxes, they have driver's licences.
they own cars, rent apartments. now you wouldnt think that the person that hired them
will be threatening to report them to the INS, because they arent supposed to know
that those very people arent supposed to be working in the us. mcdonalds pays just a
little bit over minimus wage, and guess what? american teenagers dont wanna work at
mickey d's. so they hire whoever fills out an application -that's willing to take
home the ridiculous $6 dollars an hour that they pay.
and as Ingo said:
> > Thanks for making that clear. I'd like to go one step further and say that, if
> > anything, illegal immigrants are *less* likely to seek such benefits than US
> > citizens and legal residents.
he's right.
"James Donovan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Ocean" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected] m>...
> > All immigrants are bad, citizens are good.
>
> If you are referring solely to illegal immigrants, you are 100% correct. Why?
> Illegal immigrants undercut citizen and permanent resident wages. Illegal
> immigrants do not pay taxes. Illegal immigrants make it harder for legal immigrants
> because INS makes so many rules to combat the flood of illegal immigrants.
>
> > Because immigrants always trying to get the same good life conditions as
> > sitizens, and INS make it so hard and tricky for them that they always
brake
> > the LAW and become criminals, and criminals are bad.
>
> The reason the INS makes things so hard is because of illegal immigrants, not the
> other way around. Legal immigrants are playing by the rules and often get the
> shitty end of the stick because illegal immigrants broke the rules. Don't you even
> understand? This is selfish behaviour on the part of illegal immigrants. They have
> no idea of how much of the immigration system they have overloaded and slowed down
> and totally destroyed by their totally selfish border jumping behaviour. All they
> care about is their own selfish personal ambition and everyone else can go to hell.
> That is why I have absolutely no sympathy when illegal aliens from any country are
> rounded up, detained, deported and excluded from the United States.
Jul 13th 2002, 9:20 am
#95
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can I have a baby in the US ?
On Fri, 12 Jul 2002 19:47:34 -0700, James Donovan wrote:
> [email protected] (Bodza Bodza) wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]. com>...
>> [email protected] (James Donovan) wrote in message
>> > They broke the law, how can they be "better" citizens?
>>
>> i.e. what you are saying is the simple fact that they broke the law ONE TIME by
>> entering illegally makes them bad through and through.
>
> Many illegal aliens break the law *much* more than just one time
Many US citizens also break the law *much* more than just one time. The point was all
along that the lions share of illegal immigrants will never break the law again, and
you will find far fewer lawbreakers among illegal immigrants than among US citizens.
>> > It also means paying your TAXES, which illegal aliens do not do.
>>
>> What do you think sales tax is then?
>
> It is not income tax and it is far less than what we citizens and permanent legal
> residents pay in income and property and other taxes.
All of these taxes apply to citizens and illegal immigrants alike. If an illegal
immigrant buys a property, he has to pay property tax. If he receives interest on a
bank account, he has to pay income tax. If he receives wages, he has to pay income
tax. All of these are enforced.
The only exception is that people - US citizens and illegal immigrants alike - who
make very little money do not have to pay income taxes.
> [email protected] (Bodza Bodza) wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]. com>...
>> [email protected] (James Donovan) wrote in message
>> > They broke the law, how can they be "better" citizens?
>>
>> i.e. what you are saying is the simple fact that they broke the law ONE TIME by
>> entering illegally makes them bad through and through.
>
> Many illegal aliens break the law *much* more than just one time
Many US citizens also break the law *much* more than just one time. The point was all
along that the lions share of illegal immigrants will never break the law again, and
you will find far fewer lawbreakers among illegal immigrants than among US citizens.
>> > It also means paying your TAXES, which illegal aliens do not do.
>>
>> What do you think sales tax is then?
>
> It is not income tax and it is far less than what we citizens and permanent legal
> residents pay in income and property and other taxes.
All of these taxes apply to citizens and illegal immigrants alike. If an illegal
immigrant buys a property, he has to pay property tax. If he receives interest on a
bank account, he has to pay income tax. If he receives wages, he has to pay income
tax. All of these are enforced.
The only exception is that people - US citizens and illegal immigrants alike - who
make very little money do not have to pay income taxes.
Jul 13th 2002, 9:20 am
#96
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can I have a baby in the US ?
On Fri, 12 Jul 2002 19:39:59 -0700, James Donovan wrote:
> "Andy Platt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
>> "James Donovan" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> > Personally I think citizenship rules should be changed, where the only people
>> > who should be born citizens are those who have at least one USC or PR parent.
>>
>> I agree but the word "rules" is a little soft here - it's part of the constitution
>> so would require an amendment which makes it much harder.
>
>
> Then I think it's time we as citizens and legal immigrants lobby our politicians to
> effect such a change.
You'd have a hard time with that because the 14th amendment was a very substantial
part of what we today would call the Civil Rights movement.
The 14th Amendment was written to guarantee citizenship rights to black former
slaves. Trying to debate that Amendment would open a major political can of worms.
Ingo
> "Andy Platt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
>> "James Donovan" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> > Personally I think citizenship rules should be changed, where the only people
>> > who should be born citizens are those who have at least one USC or PR parent.
>>
>> I agree but the word "rules" is a little soft here - it's part of the constitution
>> so would require an amendment which makes it much harder.
>
>
> Then I think it's time we as citizens and legal immigrants lobby our politicians to
> effect such a change.
You'd have a hard time with that because the 14th amendment was a very substantial
part of what we today would call the Civil Rights movement.
The 14th Amendment was written to guarantee citizenship rights to black former
slaves. Trying to debate that Amendment would open a major political can of worms.
Ingo
Jul 13th 2002, 10:20 am
#97
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: the bottom line. Re: How can I have a baby in the US ?
On Fri, 12 Jul 2002 19:38:15 -0700, James Donovan wrote:
> "Ocean" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected] m>...
>> All immigrants are bad, citizens are good.
>
> If you are referring solely to illegal immigrants, you are 100% correct. Why?
> Illegal immigrants undercut citizen and permanent resident wages. Illegal
> immigrants do not pay taxes. Illegal immigrants make it harder for legal immigrants
> because INS makes so many rules to combat the flood of illegal immigrants.
>
>> Because immigrants always trying to get the same good life conditions as sitizens,
>> and INS make it so hard and tricky for them that they always brake the LAW and
>> become criminals, and criminals are bad.
>
> The reason the INS makes things so hard is because of illegal immigrants, not the
> other way around. Legal immigrants are playing by the rules and often get the
> shitty end of the stick because illegal immigrants broke the rules.
They also often get the shitty end of the stick because US immigration law itself is
very screwed up. As an example, if I - a legal permanent resident of the USA who
always meticulously obeyed the law, immigration and otherwise, and never got as much
as a parking ticket - decided to marry my sweetheart from Canada, you know what would
happen? She would actually be prevented from even visiting me in the US for five to
six YEARS; she'd be ineligible for almost all types of visa - and at the same time, I
would be *required* to live in the USA (being a legal permanent resident actually
carries not just the right, but the requirement to live in the US). That's the kind
of law that *forces* people to become illegal immigrants.
> Don't you even understand? This is selfish behaviour on the part of illegal
> immigrants. They have no idea of how much of the immigration system they have
> overloaded and slowed down and totally destroyed by their totally selfish border
> jumping behaviour. All they care about is their own selfish personal ambition and
> everyone else can go to hell. That is why I have absolutely no sympathy when
> illegal aliens from any country are rounded up, detained, deported and excluded
> from the United States.
Like the legal permanent residents who were rounded up and detained after
9/11 because they were late to notify the INS of a change of address? Oh wait, if you
want to file papers late, you better plan on becoming President of the United
States - filing papers about a half-million+ stock deal late is OK, but you get
rounded up and deported for notifying INS after 11 days instead of the allowed 10?
Come on, something is completely out of proportion here.
> "Ocean" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected] m>...
>> All immigrants are bad, citizens are good.
>
> If you are referring solely to illegal immigrants, you are 100% correct. Why?
> Illegal immigrants undercut citizen and permanent resident wages. Illegal
> immigrants do not pay taxes. Illegal immigrants make it harder for legal immigrants
> because INS makes so many rules to combat the flood of illegal immigrants.
>
>> Because immigrants always trying to get the same good life conditions as sitizens,
>> and INS make it so hard and tricky for them that they always brake the LAW and
>> become criminals, and criminals are bad.
>
> The reason the INS makes things so hard is because of illegal immigrants, not the
> other way around. Legal immigrants are playing by the rules and often get the
> shitty end of the stick because illegal immigrants broke the rules.
They also often get the shitty end of the stick because US immigration law itself is
very screwed up. As an example, if I - a legal permanent resident of the USA who
always meticulously obeyed the law, immigration and otherwise, and never got as much
as a parking ticket - decided to marry my sweetheart from Canada, you know what would
happen? She would actually be prevented from even visiting me in the US for five to
six YEARS; she'd be ineligible for almost all types of visa - and at the same time, I
would be *required* to live in the USA (being a legal permanent resident actually
carries not just the right, but the requirement to live in the US). That's the kind
of law that *forces* people to become illegal immigrants.
> Don't you even understand? This is selfish behaviour on the part of illegal
> immigrants. They have no idea of how much of the immigration system they have
> overloaded and slowed down and totally destroyed by their totally selfish border
> jumping behaviour. All they care about is their own selfish personal ambition and
> everyone else can go to hell. That is why I have absolutely no sympathy when
> illegal aliens from any country are rounded up, detained, deported and excluded
> from the United States.
Like the legal permanent residents who were rounded up and detained after
9/11 because they were late to notify the INS of a change of address? Oh wait, if you
want to file papers late, you better plan on becoming President of the United
States - filing papers about a half-million+ stock deal late is OK, but you get
rounded up and deported for notifying INS after 11 days instead of the allowed 10?
Come on, something is completely out of proportion here.
Jul 13th 2002, 11:20 am
#98
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: the bottom line. Re: How can I have a baby in the US ?
Do you speak any other languages then your own? So freely that you can talk and write
about some crapy law system in other country? Don't play smart with me because you
finish high school here. Who gives a damn! And you know why those other stupid no
good "aliens" illegals abandon their cultures and go for a full stomac life? Because
it is scientific fact that on the pyramid of human (they still humans) demands
material needs, as food and clothes stands first. People can not think about art and
culture when they hungry. I wish all the best for all of those who put their lifes on
the line for better future for their kids and beter life for their families in their
afforts to get in here.
"Robert" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Ocean" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected] m>...
> > All immigrants are bad, citizens are good. Because immigrants always trying to
> > get the same good life conditions as sitizens, and INS make it so hard and tricky
> > for them that they always
brake
> > the LAW and become criminals, and criminals are bad.
> >
>
>
> Hey "ocean," the depth of your thoughts can't even be compared with the depth of a
> pond in my neighbor's yard. Look at the "sentences" you wrote! How many laws of
> written English language you have violated? Whew! I stopped counting after 15. You
> may say, "so what." The point is, that you're not a native English speaker (as I
> am, lool), and by a luck you've probably obtained a good status and/or financial
> independence (well, some may have higher statuses than you
> do), but you also lost you common sense, and you lost the sense of your roots, your
> origin and your culture. And now, in retrospect you harshly critisize and abhor
> people who're trying to get here. I just wonder how you, or may be your parents
> too, came to this country, and where you guys came from?
>
> Just a thought.
>
> R.
about some crapy law system in other country? Don't play smart with me because you
finish high school here. Who gives a damn! And you know why those other stupid no
good "aliens" illegals abandon their cultures and go for a full stomac life? Because
it is scientific fact that on the pyramid of human (they still humans) demands
material needs, as food and clothes stands first. People can not think about art and
culture when they hungry. I wish all the best for all of those who put their lifes on
the line for better future for their kids and beter life for their families in their
afforts to get in here.
"Robert" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Ocean" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected] m>...
> > All immigrants are bad, citizens are good. Because immigrants always trying to
> > get the same good life conditions as sitizens, and INS make it so hard and tricky
> > for them that they always
brake
> > the LAW and become criminals, and criminals are bad.
> >
>
>
> Hey "ocean," the depth of your thoughts can't even be compared with the depth of a
> pond in my neighbor's yard. Look at the "sentences" you wrote! How many laws of
> written English language you have violated? Whew! I stopped counting after 15. You
> may say, "so what." The point is, that you're not a native English speaker (as I
> am, lool), and by a luck you've probably obtained a good status and/or financial
> independence (well, some may have higher statuses than you
> do), but you also lost you common sense, and you lost the sense of your roots, your
> origin and your culture. And now, in retrospect you harshly critisize and abhor
> people who're trying to get here. I just wonder how you, or may be your parents
> too, came to this country, and where you guys came from?
>
> Just a thought.
>
> R.
Jul 13th 2002, 3:20 pm
#99
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: the bottom line. Re: How can I have a baby in the US ?
What I'm talking about here is that existing law make it so hard for legal immigrants
to get their status that on the way to their status a lot of them became illegal. And
I do not care who destroyed the law! The law is for people NOT the people are for the
law. If it does not work it has to be destroyed, And I feel so sorry for people who
trying to start build their lifes on this law, and end up being named as criminals
and illegals, and get punished for it.
"James Donovan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Ocean" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected] m>...
> > All immigrants are bad, citizens are good.
>
> If you are referring solely to illegal immigrants, you are 100% correct. Why?
> Illegal immigrants undercut citizen and permanent resident wages. Illegal
> immigrants do not pay taxes. Illegal immigrants make it harder for legal immigrants
> because INS makes so many rules to combat the flood of illegal immigrants.
>
> > Because immigrants always trying to get the same good life conditions as
> > sitizens, and INS make it so hard and tricky for them that they always
brake
> > the LAW and become criminals, and criminals are bad.
>
> The reason the INS makes things so hard is because of illegal immigrants, not the
> other way around. Legal immigrants are playing by the rules and often get the
> shitty end of the stick because illegal immigrants broke the rules. Don't you even
> understand? This is selfish behaviour on the part of illegal immigrants. They have
> no idea of how much of the immigration system they have overloaded and slowed down
> and totally destroyed by their totally selfish border jumping behaviour. All they
> care about is their own selfish personal ambition and everyone else can go to hell.
> That is why I have absolutely no sympathy when illegal aliens from any country are
> rounded up, detained, deported and excluded from the United States.
to get their status that on the way to their status a lot of them became illegal. And
I do not care who destroyed the law! The law is for people NOT the people are for the
law. If it does not work it has to be destroyed, And I feel so sorry for people who
trying to start build their lifes on this law, and end up being named as criminals
and illegals, and get punished for it.
"James Donovan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Ocean" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected] m>...
> > All immigrants are bad, citizens are good.
>
> If you are referring solely to illegal immigrants, you are 100% correct. Why?
> Illegal immigrants undercut citizen and permanent resident wages. Illegal
> immigrants do not pay taxes. Illegal immigrants make it harder for legal immigrants
> because INS makes so many rules to combat the flood of illegal immigrants.
>
> > Because immigrants always trying to get the same good life conditions as
> > sitizens, and INS make it so hard and tricky for them that they always
brake
> > the LAW and become criminals, and criminals are bad.
>
> The reason the INS makes things so hard is because of illegal immigrants, not the
> other way around. Legal immigrants are playing by the rules and often get the
> shitty end of the stick because illegal immigrants broke the rules. Don't you even
> understand? This is selfish behaviour on the part of illegal immigrants. They have
> no idea of how much of the immigration system they have overloaded and slowed down
> and totally destroyed by their totally selfish border jumping behaviour. All they
> care about is their own selfish personal ambition and everyone else can go to hell.
> That is why I have absolutely no sympathy when illegal aliens from any country are
> rounded up, detained, deported and excluded from the United States.
Jul 13th 2002, 3:20 pm
#100
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: the bottom line. Re: How can I have a baby in the US ?
"priscilla" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<%2QX8.504544$cQ3.44823@sccrnsc01>...
> > There is a third category of illegal alien too. Those who kill, rob, rape, steal,
> > fly planes into buildings etc.
>
> mm, first of all, the people that flew planes into buildings weren't illegal
> aliens; they had their visas and such.
But they overstayed them, which made them illegal aliens.
> second, illegal aliens arent entitled to welfare, unemployment benefits, food
> stamps and the like. and if they had a USC baby that they were claiming benefits
> for, what's the fuss all about? the illegal parents don't have any rights, but the
> baby does, as much as the baby next door. and imagine how much money it would
> actually be.
But if they had not come here illegally, the USC baby would be a citizen of their
home country. Don't you see? They are coming here and having their children here
so that they can get their foot in the door in the USA. They are USING and ABUSING
the system.
>
> > I would understand it too, but so many US citizens are now out of work, therefore
> > there should be plenty people to fill those jobs. This is provided of course that
> > employers want to pay minimum wage. You will find that the only reason they hire
> > illegals is because they can get them cheap, and they are virtually slaves. They
> > can't leave because their "employer" constantly threatens to report them to INS.
>
> have you ever been to a mcdonalds? a lot of people that work at mcdonalds are
> illegal. i know that for a fact. they use ITIN's (taxpayer identification numbers
> for people that arent eligible for a ssn), they pay taxes, they have driver's
> licences. they own cars, rent apartments. now you wouldnt think that the person
> that hired them will be threatening to report them to the INS, because they arent
> supposed to know that those very people arent supposed to be working in the us.
> mcdonalds pays just a little bit over minimus wage, and guess what? american
> teenagers dont wanna work at mickey d's. so they hire whoever fills out an
> application -that's willing to take home the ridiculous $6 dollars an hour that
> they pay.
Still they are illegal. They are breaking the law.
news:<%2QX8.504544$cQ3.44823@sccrnsc01>...
> > There is a third category of illegal alien too. Those who kill, rob, rape, steal,
> > fly planes into buildings etc.
>
> mm, first of all, the people that flew planes into buildings weren't illegal
> aliens; they had their visas and such.
But they overstayed them, which made them illegal aliens.
> second, illegal aliens arent entitled to welfare, unemployment benefits, food
> stamps and the like. and if they had a USC baby that they were claiming benefits
> for, what's the fuss all about? the illegal parents don't have any rights, but the
> baby does, as much as the baby next door. and imagine how much money it would
> actually be.
But if they had not come here illegally, the USC baby would be a citizen of their
home country. Don't you see? They are coming here and having their children here
so that they can get their foot in the door in the USA. They are USING and ABUSING
the system.
>
> > I would understand it too, but so many US citizens are now out of work, therefore
> > there should be plenty people to fill those jobs. This is provided of course that
> > employers want to pay minimum wage. You will find that the only reason they hire
> > illegals is because they can get them cheap, and they are virtually slaves. They
> > can't leave because their "employer" constantly threatens to report them to INS.
>
> have you ever been to a mcdonalds? a lot of people that work at mcdonalds are
> illegal. i know that for a fact. they use ITIN's (taxpayer identification numbers
> for people that arent eligible for a ssn), they pay taxes, they have driver's
> licences. they own cars, rent apartments. now you wouldnt think that the person
> that hired them will be threatening to report them to the INS, because they arent
> supposed to know that those very people arent supposed to be working in the us.
> mcdonalds pays just a little bit over minimus wage, and guess what? american
> teenagers dont wanna work at mickey d's. so they hire whoever fills out an
> application -that's willing to take home the ridiculous $6 dollars an hour that
> they pay.
Still they are illegal. They are breaking the law.
Jul 13th 2002, 3:20 pm
#101
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: the bottom line. Re: How can I have a baby in the US ?
Ingo Pakleppa <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>. ..
> On Fri, 12 Jul 2002 19:38:15 -0700, James Donovan wrote:
>
> > "Ocean" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:<[email protected] m>...
> >> All immigrants are bad, citizens are good.
> >
> > If you are referring solely to illegal immigrants, you are 100% correct. Why?
> > Illegal immigrants undercut citizen and permanent resident wages. Illegal
> > immigrants do not pay taxes. Illegal immigrants make it harder for legal
> > immigrants because INS makes so many rules to combat the flood of illegal
> > immigrants.
> >
> >> Because immigrants always trying to get the same good life conditions as
> >> sitizens, and INS make it so hard and tricky for them that they always brake the
> >> LAW and become criminals, and criminals are bad.
> >
> > The reason the INS makes things so hard is because of illegal immigrants, not the
> > other way around. Legal immigrants are playing by the rules and often get the
> > shitty end of the stick because illegal immigrants broke the rules.
>
> They also often get the shitty end of the stick because US immigration law itself
> is very screwed up.
The immigration laws are very screwed up because people broke the rules and now rules
are being made to cover ALL scenarios, and those who get hampered from doing their
legal business are just considered to be "collateral damage".
> As an example, if I - a legal permanent resident of the USA who always meticulously
> obeyed the law, immigration and otherwise, and never got as much as a parking
> ticket - decided to marry my sweetheart from Canada, you know what would happen?
> She would actually be prevented from even visiting me in the US for five to six
> YEARS; she'd be ineligible for almost all types of visa - and at the same time, I
> would be *required* to live in the USA (being a legal permanent resident actually
> carries not just the right, but the requirement to live in the US). That's the kind
> of law that *forces* people to become illegal immigrants.
No it does not. No one forced you to become a permanent resident. You could very well
move to Canada with her, no one is stopping you. If you are a citizen of this country
on the other hand, you are free to bring her across here. It makes perfect sense. The
rules are made up so that it's harder to circumvent the rules and preference
categories. The rules make perfect sense.
>
> > Don't you even understand? This is selfish behaviour on the part of illegal
> > immigrants. They have no idea of how much of the immigration system they have
> > overloaded and slowed down and totally destroyed by their totally selfish border
> > jumping behaviour. All they care about is their own selfish personal ambition and
> > everyone else can go to hell. That is why I have absolutely no sympathy when
> > illegal aliens from any country are rounded up, detained, deported and excluded
> > from the United States.
>
> Like the legal permanent residents who were rounded up and detained after
> 9/11 because they were late to notify the INS of a change of address? Oh wait, if
> you want to file papers late, you better plan on becoming President of the
> United States - filing papers about a half-million+ stock deal late is OK, but
> you get rounded up and deported for notifying INS after 11 days instead of the
> allowed 10?
Once again, a Permanent Resident is NOT a citizen of this country. You have to keep
your information with INS up to date or you can get the hell out. Besides, what
does this have to do with illegal immigration? If we allowed illegal immigrants to
become legal migrants the USA would easily become overpopulated as several parts of
Asia. Do you want that? It seems as though you want the USA to be overpopulated
with every country's overpopulation at the expense of natural born citizens such as
myself. We have given enough chances to everyone here, and it seems as though we
will please no one.
Get this straight. If you are not a citizen you are a GUEST here. We have the full
right to tell you for how long you can stay and when you can leave.
news:<[email protected]>. ..
> On Fri, 12 Jul 2002 19:38:15 -0700, James Donovan wrote:
>
> > "Ocean" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:<[email protected] m>...
> >> All immigrants are bad, citizens are good.
> >
> > If you are referring solely to illegal immigrants, you are 100% correct. Why?
> > Illegal immigrants undercut citizen and permanent resident wages. Illegal
> > immigrants do not pay taxes. Illegal immigrants make it harder for legal
> > immigrants because INS makes so many rules to combat the flood of illegal
> > immigrants.
> >
> >> Because immigrants always trying to get the same good life conditions as
> >> sitizens, and INS make it so hard and tricky for them that they always brake the
> >> LAW and become criminals, and criminals are bad.
> >
> > The reason the INS makes things so hard is because of illegal immigrants, not the
> > other way around. Legal immigrants are playing by the rules and often get the
> > shitty end of the stick because illegal immigrants broke the rules.
>
> They also often get the shitty end of the stick because US immigration law itself
> is very screwed up.
The immigration laws are very screwed up because people broke the rules and now rules
are being made to cover ALL scenarios, and those who get hampered from doing their
legal business are just considered to be "collateral damage".
> As an example, if I - a legal permanent resident of the USA who always meticulously
> obeyed the law, immigration and otherwise, and never got as much as a parking
> ticket - decided to marry my sweetheart from Canada, you know what would happen?
> She would actually be prevented from even visiting me in the US for five to six
> YEARS; she'd be ineligible for almost all types of visa - and at the same time, I
> would be *required* to live in the USA (being a legal permanent resident actually
> carries not just the right, but the requirement to live in the US). That's the kind
> of law that *forces* people to become illegal immigrants.
No it does not. No one forced you to become a permanent resident. You could very well
move to Canada with her, no one is stopping you. If you are a citizen of this country
on the other hand, you are free to bring her across here. It makes perfect sense. The
rules are made up so that it's harder to circumvent the rules and preference
categories. The rules make perfect sense.
>
> > Don't you even understand? This is selfish behaviour on the part of illegal
> > immigrants. They have no idea of how much of the immigration system they have
> > overloaded and slowed down and totally destroyed by their totally selfish border
> > jumping behaviour. All they care about is their own selfish personal ambition and
> > everyone else can go to hell. That is why I have absolutely no sympathy when
> > illegal aliens from any country are rounded up, detained, deported and excluded
> > from the United States.
>
> Like the legal permanent residents who were rounded up and detained after
> 9/11 because they were late to notify the INS of a change of address? Oh wait, if
> you want to file papers late, you better plan on becoming President of the
> United States - filing papers about a half-million+ stock deal late is OK, but
> you get rounded up and deported for notifying INS after 11 days instead of the
> allowed 10?
Once again, a Permanent Resident is NOT a citizen of this country. You have to keep
your information with INS up to date or you can get the hell out. Besides, what
does this have to do with illegal immigration? If we allowed illegal immigrants to
become legal migrants the USA would easily become overpopulated as several parts of
Asia. Do you want that? It seems as though you want the USA to be overpopulated
with every country's overpopulation at the expense of natural born citizens such as
myself. We have given enough chances to everyone here, and it seems as though we
will please no one.
Get this straight. If you are not a citizen you are a GUEST here. We have the full
right to tell you for how long you can stay and when you can leave.
Jul 13th 2002, 3:20 pm
#102
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: the bottom line. Re: How can I have a baby in the US ?
"Ocean" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected] >...
> What I'm talking about here is that existing law make it so hard for legal
> immigrants to get their status that on the way to their status a lot of them became
> illegal. And I do not care who destroyed the law! The law is for people NOT the
> people are for the law. If it does not work it has to be destroyed, And I feel so
> sorry for people who trying to start build their lifes on this law, and end up
> being named as criminals and illegals, and get punished for it.
Illegals have no basis whatsoever for coming to the United States. They are not well
educated and skilled and they do not have immediate relatives here. Therefore they do
not deserve to come here and should not be here.
news:<[email protected] >...
> What I'm talking about here is that existing law make it so hard for legal
> immigrants to get their status that on the way to their status a lot of them became
> illegal. And I do not care who destroyed the law! The law is for people NOT the
> people are for the law. If it does not work it has to be destroyed, And I feel so
> sorry for people who trying to start build their lifes on this law, and end up
> being named as criminals and illegals, and get punished for it.
Illegals have no basis whatsoever for coming to the United States. They are not well
educated and skilled and they do not have immediate relatives here. Therefore they do
not deserve to come here and should not be here.
Jul 13th 2002, 3:20 pm
#103
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can I have a baby in the US ?
Ingo Pakleppa <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>. ..
> On Fri, 12 Jul 2002 19:47:34 -0700, James Donovan wrote:
>
> > [email protected] (Bodza Bodza) wrote in message
> > news:<[email protected]. com>...
> >> [email protected] (James Donovan) wrote in message
> >> > They broke the law, how can they be "better" citizens?
> >>
> >> i.e. what you are saying is the simple fact that they broke the law ONE TIME by
> >> entering illegally makes them bad through and through.
> >
> > Many illegal aliens break the law *much* more than just one time
>
> Many US citizens also break the law *much* more than just one time.
We have ways of dealing with them, like fines and jail time.
> The point was all along that the lions share of illegal immigrants will never break
> the law again, and you will find far fewer lawbreakers among illegal immigrants
> than among US citizens.
They are ALL breaking the law.
>
> >> > It also means paying your TAXES, which illegal aliens do not do.
> >>
> >> What do you think sales tax is then?
> >
> > It is not income tax and it is far less than what we citizens and permanent legal
> > residents pay in income and property and other taxes.
>
> All of these taxes apply to citizens and illegal immigrants alike. If an illegal
> immigrant buys a property, he has to pay property tax. If he receives interest on a
> bank account, he has to pay income tax. If he receives wages, he has to pay income
> tax. All of these are enforced.
LOL. No you idiot. If an illegal is working for cash off the books, do you think he
or she will care to pay income tax? Hell no!
> The only exception is that people - US citizens and illegal immigrants alike - who
> make very little money do not have to pay income taxes.
Most Illegal immigrants make very little money and therefore do not pay taxes.
news:<[email protected]>. ..
> On Fri, 12 Jul 2002 19:47:34 -0700, James Donovan wrote:
>
> > [email protected] (Bodza Bodza) wrote in message
> > news:<[email protected]. com>...
> >> [email protected] (James Donovan) wrote in message
> >> > They broke the law, how can they be "better" citizens?
> >>
> >> i.e. what you are saying is the simple fact that they broke the law ONE TIME by
> >> entering illegally makes them bad through and through.
> >
> > Many illegal aliens break the law *much* more than just one time
>
> Many US citizens also break the law *much* more than just one time.
We have ways of dealing with them, like fines and jail time.
> The point was all along that the lions share of illegal immigrants will never break
> the law again, and you will find far fewer lawbreakers among illegal immigrants
> than among US citizens.
They are ALL breaking the law.
>
> >> > It also means paying your TAXES, which illegal aliens do not do.
> >>
> >> What do you think sales tax is then?
> >
> > It is not income tax and it is far less than what we citizens and permanent legal
> > residents pay in income and property and other taxes.
>
> All of these taxes apply to citizens and illegal immigrants alike. If an illegal
> immigrant buys a property, he has to pay property tax. If he receives interest on a
> bank account, he has to pay income tax. If he receives wages, he has to pay income
> tax. All of these are enforced.
LOL. No you idiot. If an illegal is working for cash off the books, do you think he
or she will care to pay income tax? Hell no!
> The only exception is that people - US citizens and illegal immigrants alike - who
> make very little money do not have to pay income taxes.
Most Illegal immigrants make very little money and therefore do not pay taxes.
Jul 13th 2002, 3:26 pm
#104
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can I have a baby in the US ?
On Sat, 13 Jul 2002 08:32:02 GMT, Ingo Pakleppa <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Fri, 12 Jul 2002 19:47:34 -0700, James Donovan wrote:
>> It is not income tax and it is far less than what we citizens and permanent legal
>> residents pay in income and property and other taxes.
>All of these taxes apply to citizens and illegal immigrants alike. If an illegal
>immigrant buys a property, he has to pay property tax. If he receives interest on a
>bank account, he has to pay income tax. If he receives wages, he has to pay income
>tax. All of these are enforced.
>The only exception is that people - US citizens and illegal immigrants alike - who
>make very little money do not have to pay income taxes.
Not to mention that many, maybe even most, illegal immigrants who have been here a
while use false documents and actually have federal income taxes removed from
their pychecks. So yes, a large percentage of the illegal immigrants pay US
taxes. Maybe even close to the same percentrage of people here legally. ('Cause
there are certainly PLENTY of people here legally, citizen or not, who don't pay
their income taxes!)
>On Fri, 12 Jul 2002 19:47:34 -0700, James Donovan wrote:
>> It is not income tax and it is far less than what we citizens and permanent legal
>> residents pay in income and property and other taxes.
>All of these taxes apply to citizens and illegal immigrants alike. If an illegal
>immigrant buys a property, he has to pay property tax. If he receives interest on a
>bank account, he has to pay income tax. If he receives wages, he has to pay income
>tax. All of these are enforced.
>The only exception is that people - US citizens and illegal immigrants alike - who
>make very little money do not have to pay income taxes.
Not to mention that many, maybe even most, illegal immigrants who have been here a
while use false documents and actually have federal income taxes removed from
their pychecks. So yes, a large percentage of the illegal immigrants pay US
taxes. Maybe even close to the same percentrage of people here legally. ('Cause
there are certainly PLENTY of people here legally, citizen or not, who don't pay
their income taxes!)
Jul 13th 2002, 6:20 pm
#105
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can I have a baby in the US ?
Ingo Pakleppa <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>. ..
> On Thu, 11 Jul 2002 06:04:43 -0700, James Donovan wrote:
>
> > Ingo Pakleppa <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:<[email protected]>. ..
> >
> >> I have the feeling that working for DSS may have left you with a biased sample.
> >> Nobody is arguing that such people exist. But there is a second category of
> >> illegal alien - and a much larger: those who sweep the streets, vacuum our
> >> offices, harvest our vegetables, etc.
> >
> > There is a third category of illegal alien too. Those who kill, rob, rape, steal,
> > fly planes into buildings etc.
>
> And then there is Charles Manson. Jeffrey Dahmer. Timothy McVeigh.
Who all went to jail, with the exception of McVeigh who was executed. McVeigh was
deported all
> If there is any correlation between citizenship (or illegal alienship), it is that
> there are fewer criminals among illegal aliens (in otherwise comparable
> demographics).
That's only because USC's outnumber illegal aliens. Stop trying to twist the facts.
>
> >> There is a reason the employer community is lobbying so strongly against
> >> enforcement of immigration laws (although - don't misunderstand me here
> >> - I do think this is wrong).
> >
> > I would understand it too, but so many US citizens are now out of work, therefore
> > there should be plenty people to fill those jobs. This is provided of course that
> > employers want to pay minimum wage. You will find that the only reason they hire
> > illegals is because they can get them cheap, and they are virtually slaves. They
> > can't leave because their "employer" constantly threatens to report them to INS.
>
> There is a flaw in this reasoning: US citizens who are out of work tend to be out
> of work for a short time and in the wrong professions.
You are apparently living under a rock. US citizens have been out of work for over a
year in this economy.
> It doesn't help a software developer from Silicon Valley at all if six months later
> a job as a harvest helper opens up in Texas!
But it does help a harvest helper who demands a fair wage.
> >> Basically, there are two main arguments used against illegal immigration: "we
> >> pay their welfare" and "they take our jobs" - but few people realize that these
> >> two arguments are actually contradictory. Personally, I'd be in favor of an
> >> essential worker visa in order to allow such workers to come to the US legally
> >> and be protected by the same labor laws as US citizens.
> >
> >
> > Ahhh... Companies would be opposed to such a visa because they would have to pay
> > minimum wage, which the currently do not do to illegal aliens. Incidentally, I
> > believe there is a seasonal farm labor visa (H-2A I think it is) but it is hardly
> > used because employers can still import illegal aliens for so much cheaper and
> > pay them next to nothing.
>
> The problem with the H-2A is that the red tape makes it near impossible to use.
Excuses.
> By the time an H-2A is approved, the crop has long rotted on the fields!
More excuses.
> >> > Imagine when they can take this amount while being illegal, imagine when they
> >> > are given amnesty and eventually become citizens.
> >>
> >> Don't worry, as a general rule, even if there was an amnesty, illegal aliens who
> >> received welfare would be barred from using the amnesty (based on the "public
> >> charge" ground of inadmissibility).
> >
> > But nothing stops those who were not on welfare before from going on welfare
> > later on.
>
> Actually, something does: an alien who holds a Green Card can become deportable if
> he draws welfare and cannot show that the reason arose after he got his Green Card.
A green card holder who naturalizes cannot be deported like that. This is why so many
naturalization applications are being made in Texas, California and Arizona.
>
> >> In any case, such an amnesty is exceedingly rare. To my knowledge, there only
> >> ever was one, and that is almost two decades ago (1986).
> >
> > 245(i) is a de-facto amnesty.
>
> 245(i) has nothing to do with an amnesty, although it has often falsely be
> presented as such in the press. An amnesty allows somebody who is illegally
> and isn't qualified for a Green Card in the US to remain.
Which 245(i) does. Those who aren't qualified for green cards find some way to
fraudulently qualify themselves.
> Basically, it allows illegal aliens to have their slate wiped clean and get a
> Green Card.
Which is still wrong. They need to all be deported.
>
> 245(i) does not do that. It does not authorize a single Green Card for anybody who
> wouldn't already be eligible anyway.
Then why all the rush to get married before April 30, 2001?
> All it does is allow processing of the Green Card at an INS office rather than at a
> consulate. Every single applicant for 245(i) still has to be eligible - for
> instance, a husband or wife of a US citizen.
Which could easily be bought.
> 245(i) primarily provided a convenience (today it also helps to avoid a catch-22,
> where two laws interact in an unanticipated way).
Excuses.
>
> In fact, 245(i) was actually conceived mostly as a revenue generator. The
> convenience of being able to apply in the US rather than their home country costs a
> fine of $1000, which contributed a substantial amount to the INS budget.
More excuses.
We are going to be facing a serious overpopulation problem pretty soon if we do not
do something about the immigration problem.
news:<[email protected]>. ..
> On Thu, 11 Jul 2002 06:04:43 -0700, James Donovan wrote:
>
> > Ingo Pakleppa <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:<[email protected]>. ..
> >
> >> I have the feeling that working for DSS may have left you with a biased sample.
> >> Nobody is arguing that such people exist. But there is a second category of
> >> illegal alien - and a much larger: those who sweep the streets, vacuum our
> >> offices, harvest our vegetables, etc.
> >
> > There is a third category of illegal alien too. Those who kill, rob, rape, steal,
> > fly planes into buildings etc.
>
> And then there is Charles Manson. Jeffrey Dahmer. Timothy McVeigh.
Who all went to jail, with the exception of McVeigh who was executed. McVeigh was
deported all
> If there is any correlation between citizenship (or illegal alienship), it is that
> there are fewer criminals among illegal aliens (in otherwise comparable
> demographics).
That's only because USC's outnumber illegal aliens. Stop trying to twist the facts.
>
> >> There is a reason the employer community is lobbying so strongly against
> >> enforcement of immigration laws (although - don't misunderstand me here
> >> - I do think this is wrong).
> >
> > I would understand it too, but so many US citizens are now out of work, therefore
> > there should be plenty people to fill those jobs. This is provided of course that
> > employers want to pay minimum wage. You will find that the only reason they hire
> > illegals is because they can get them cheap, and they are virtually slaves. They
> > can't leave because their "employer" constantly threatens to report them to INS.
>
> There is a flaw in this reasoning: US citizens who are out of work tend to be out
> of work for a short time and in the wrong professions.
You are apparently living under a rock. US citizens have been out of work for over a
year in this economy.
> It doesn't help a software developer from Silicon Valley at all if six months later
> a job as a harvest helper opens up in Texas!
But it does help a harvest helper who demands a fair wage.
> >> Basically, there are two main arguments used against illegal immigration: "we
> >> pay their welfare" and "they take our jobs" - but few people realize that these
> >> two arguments are actually contradictory. Personally, I'd be in favor of an
> >> essential worker visa in order to allow such workers to come to the US legally
> >> and be protected by the same labor laws as US citizens.
> >
> >
> > Ahhh... Companies would be opposed to such a visa because they would have to pay
> > minimum wage, which the currently do not do to illegal aliens. Incidentally, I
> > believe there is a seasonal farm labor visa (H-2A I think it is) but it is hardly
> > used because employers can still import illegal aliens for so much cheaper and
> > pay them next to nothing.
>
> The problem with the H-2A is that the red tape makes it near impossible to use.
Excuses.
> By the time an H-2A is approved, the crop has long rotted on the fields!
More excuses.
> >> > Imagine when they can take this amount while being illegal, imagine when they
> >> > are given amnesty and eventually become citizens.
> >>
> >> Don't worry, as a general rule, even if there was an amnesty, illegal aliens who
> >> received welfare would be barred from using the amnesty (based on the "public
> >> charge" ground of inadmissibility).
> >
> > But nothing stops those who were not on welfare before from going on welfare
> > later on.
>
> Actually, something does: an alien who holds a Green Card can become deportable if
> he draws welfare and cannot show that the reason arose after he got his Green Card.
A green card holder who naturalizes cannot be deported like that. This is why so many
naturalization applications are being made in Texas, California and Arizona.
>
> >> In any case, such an amnesty is exceedingly rare. To my knowledge, there only
> >> ever was one, and that is almost two decades ago (1986).
> >
> > 245(i) is a de-facto amnesty.
>
> 245(i) has nothing to do with an amnesty, although it has often falsely be
> presented as such in the press. An amnesty allows somebody who is illegally
> and isn't qualified for a Green Card in the US to remain.
Which 245(i) does. Those who aren't qualified for green cards find some way to
fraudulently qualify themselves.
> Basically, it allows illegal aliens to have their slate wiped clean and get a
> Green Card.
Which is still wrong. They need to all be deported.
>
> 245(i) does not do that. It does not authorize a single Green Card for anybody who
> wouldn't already be eligible anyway.
Then why all the rush to get married before April 30, 2001?
> All it does is allow processing of the Green Card at an INS office rather than at a
> consulate. Every single applicant for 245(i) still has to be eligible - for
> instance, a husband or wife of a US citizen.
Which could easily be bought.
> 245(i) primarily provided a convenience (today it also helps to avoid a catch-22,
> where two laws interact in an unanticipated way).
Excuses.
>
> In fact, 245(i) was actually conceived mostly as a revenue generator. The
> convenience of being able to apply in the US rather than their home country costs a
> fine of $1000, which contributed a substantial amount to the INS budget.
More excuses.
We are going to be facing a serious overpopulation problem pretty soon if we do not
do something about the immigration problem.