Priscilla

    > There is a third category of illegal alien too. Those who kill, rob, rape, steal,
    > fly planes into buildings etc.

mm, first of all, the people that flew planes into buildings weren't illegal aliens;
they had their visas and such. i think you fail to realize that one does not need to
be illegal to rape, steal, kill and rob. of course that some do, but it's just plain
silly to say what you said. it even strikes me as stupidity. second, illegal aliens
arent entitled to welfare, unemployment benefits, food stamps and the like. and if
they had a USC baby that they were claiming benefits for, what's the fuss all about?
the illegal parents don't have any rights, but the baby does, as much as the baby
next door. and imagine how much money it would actually be.

    > I would understand it too, but so many US citizens are now out of work, therefore
    > there should be plenty people to fill those jobs. This is provided of course that
    > employers want to pay minimum wage. You will find that the only reason they hire
    > illegals is because they can get them cheap, and they are virtually slaves. They
    > can't leave because their "employer" constantly threatens to report them to INS.

have you ever been to a mcdonalds? a lot of people that work at mcdonalds are
illegal. i know that for a fact. they use ITIN's (taxpayer identification numbers for
people that arent eligible for a ssn), they pay taxes, they have driver's licences.
they own cars, rent apartments. now you wouldnt think that the person that hired them
will be threatening to report them to the INS, because they arent supposed to know
that those very people arent supposed to be working in the us. mcdonalds pays just a
little bit over minimus wage, and guess what? american teenagers dont wanna work at
mickey d's. so they hire whoever fills out an application -that's willing to take
home the ridiculous $6 dollars an hour that they pay.

and as Ingo said:

    > > Thanks for making that clear. I'd like to go one step further and say that, if
    > > anything, illegal immigrants are *less* likely to seek such benefits than US
    > > citizens and legal residents.
he's right.

Stephen C. Gall

    > In your own words the parents were eligible because their children were born US
    > citizens.
    >
    > The only reason those children are US citizens is that their parents violated US
    > laws to have anchor babies to keep them in the country that
they
    > entered illegally.

Having a US citizen child, does not give the parents any permission to stay in the
country. A US citizen must be at least 21 years old to sponsor parents for permanent
residency.

Ocean

Hey man! Are you out of your mind? Welfare check? It is less then 1000 backs - You
will live like dirt on this money here, People who trying so hard to get in always
looking for good jobs, better income, do not compare it with your local low life
neighbours.

"Tom Shelly, White God" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Yes,
    >
    > Come to the U.S., get ****ed by as many guys as possible then drop your bowel
    > movement 9 months later to collect your welfare check.
    >
    > That's what you're after honey, don't try to hide it.
    >
    > Tom Shelly, White God Purveyor of Truth
    >
    > Proud Recipient AFN's Most Hated Racist, 2002
    >

TEST-

Ocean

All immigrants are bad, citizens are good. Because immigrants always trying to get
the same good life conditions as sitizens, and INS make it so hard and tricky for
them that they always brake the LAW and become criminals, and criminals are bad.

"James Donovan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > [email protected] (Bodza Bodza) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]. com>...
    > > [email protected] (James Donovan) wrote in message
    > > > Many moons ago, I used to work with the NYC Dept. of Social Services (which has
    > > > now been renamed Human Resources Administration). It was simply shocking to see
    > > > the number of illegal alien parents applying for benefits. They were perfectly
    > > > eligible, because their children were born US citizens. It is simply amazing
    > > > that this sort of thing went on for years and no one even cared to do anything
    > > > about it.
    > >
    > > In your own words the parents were eligible because their children were born US
    > > citizens.
    > >
    > > You then go on to say "this sort of thing went on for years and no one even cared
    > > to do anything about it".
    > >
    > > Do anything about WHAT? The fact that the parents are claiming benefits they are
    > > ENTITLED to IN YOUR OWN WORDS.
    > >
    > > Stop with the xeno-phobic rhetoric already.
    >
    > It is not xenophobic rhetoric. I am very much in favour of immigration that is done
    > LEGALLY. Illegal immigration seriously cheats those who play by the rules.
    >
    > >
    > > If "illegal aliens" are claiming benefits to which they are NOT ENTITLED that is
    > > one thing but where the hell do you get off saying that it is bad that they claim
    > > benefits SIMPLY because they are in the country in breach of immigration rules?
    >
    > It is bad because they use their US born children to stay in the country illegally
    > and steal from the system.
    >
    > >
    > > It is like saying a person who is in the country in breach of the rules is bad
    > > through and through and someone born there is a
    > > god-fearing-apple-pie-eating-all-american good person. Gimme a break. There are
    > > plenty of hard working law abiding "illegal aliens" who other than the fact they
    > > are here illegally they are BETTER citizens than most of the US born.
    >
    > They broke the law, how can they be "better" citizens? Being a good citizen starts
    > with respecting the LAW, which illegal aliens have not done. It also means paying
    > your TAXES, which illegal aliens do not
    > do. It also means willingness to serve in the US military, which illegal aliens
    > can only do if drafted.

Bodza Bodza

[email protected] (James Donovan) wrote in message
    > They broke the law, how can they be "better" citizens?

i.e. what you are saying is the simple fact that they broke the law ONE TIME by
entering illegally makes them bad through and through. On the contrary if you
decide to cheat, steal, defraud the government etc you can *still* stay in the
country and are *still* entitled to benefits (after paying fines) *without*
having to leave the country? Whereas if they after entering the country
illegally break no other rules they are *worse* than you? Hypocritical SOB.

    > It also means paying your TAXES, which illegal aliens do not
    > do.

What do you think sales tax is then?

    > It also means willingness to serve in the US military, which illegal aliens can
    > only do if drafted.

Many illegal aliens *are* willing to serve in the US military but cannot.

Ingo Pakleppa

On Thu, 11 Jul 2002 06:57:25 -0700, Des wrote:

    >> And all that only applies if the parents were born in Germany.
    >
    > Ingo, below an article summarizing the new citizenship laws of Germany.
    >
    > Note that while there is a "requirement to opt" for one of two citizenships within
    > five years of turning 18, it is NOT usually ENFORCED
    > - I can count at least five friends holding dual citizenships simply because they
    > were never asked to choose (US-German, German-Turkish, German-Jordanian,
    > German-Italian).

The article that you quote below (thank you for that detailed update!) actually says
what happens in this case: they will *automatically* lose their German citizenship.
That is, if they turn 23 and don't explicitly prove that they gave up their other
citizenship, their German citizenship ceases to exist. If they still claim to be
German citizens after that day, they'd be committing fraud - and most likely, they
wouldn't even be able to get a new German passport after that day.

There is one fairly common situation where foreign citizens do end up with both the
German and their foreign citizenship. This is technically illegal but seems indeed to
be tolerated: some foreign countries will revoke citizenship and certify such - and
then automatically grant it right back after the German citizenship has been secured.
It seems that Turkey does this automatically in those cases where they do allow their
citizen to abandon their citizenship.

    > Also, even if you are in the process of getting naturalized in the US, you can be
    > allowed to hold dual citizenship with the US (and other countries) these days,_if_
    > you apply for permission to do so in advance.

Yes, this is correct. It is called Beibehaltungsgenehmigung and was actually
specifically introduced to allow dual German-US citizenship. There is a catch,
though: US naturalization does require that you renounce your original citizenship
(it does not require that you actually contact your original government, though). By
applying for a Beibehaltungsgenehmigung, you perform an active act that demonstrates
that you plan to maintain your original citizenship - which is incompatible with your
US citizenship oath. I don't think that such a case has yet been tested in US courts,
but it is entirely possible that somebody who applied for a Beibehaltungsgenehmigung
and then got naturalized would in the end be stripped of his US citizenship again.

Ingo

Andy Platt

"Ingo Pakleppa" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > incompatible with your US citizenship oath. I don't think that such a case has yet
    > been tested in US courts, but it is entirely possible that somebody who applied for
    > a Beibehaltungsgenehmigung and then got naturalized would in the end be stripped of
    > his US citizenship again.

Unlikely: As has been posted many times, the current policy of the DoS is that the
taking of another citizenship is not considered abandonment of your US citizenship
unless that was your intention.

Andy.

--
I'm not really here - it's just your warped imagination.

James Donovan

"Stephen C. Gallagher" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected] ogers.com>...

    > Having a US citizen child, does not give the parents any permission to stay in the
    > country.

However many either think it does, or use it as an excuse to get sympathy from others
and stay in the country illegally and collect welfare anyway. Personally I think
citizenship rules should be changed, where the only people who should be born
citizens are those who have at least one USC or PR parent.

Stephen C. Gall

"Andy Platt" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > "Ingo Pakleppa" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > incompatible with your US citizenship oath. I don't think that such a case has
    > > yet been tested in US courts, but it is entirely possible that somebody who
    > > applied for a Beibehaltungsgenehmigung and then got naturalized would in the end
    > > be stripped of his US citizenship again.
    >
    > Unlikely: As has been posted many times, the current policy of the DoS is that the
    > taking of another citizenship is not considered abandonment of
your
    > US citizenship unless that was your intention.
    >
    > Andy.

That's true. But that applies when another citizenship is acquired AFTER the person
holds US citizenship. A US citizen who takes another citizenship, and who intends to
keep his US citizenship will, generally, not have any problem in keeping his US
citizenship.

Although the US does permit US citizens to acquire other citizenships, and still keep
their US citizenship, they do have a requirement that a person who applies to become
a US citizen, must take the naturalization oath, which includes a statement of
renunciation. They don't require a person to formally renounce his original
citizenship under that country's laws, but they do require the oath.

Many countries don't view the oath as being legally binding, and a person from such a
country ends up with dual citizenship.

German law would normally view the acquisition of US citizenship (or any other) as
causing loss of German citizenship, whether an oath or renunciatory statement was
involved, or not. But as stated above, if a German citizen can obtain the required
Beibehaltungsgenehmigung, before acquiring the new citizenship, he will be allowed to
keep German citizenship.

It's not certain whether the act of acquiring a Beibehaltungsgenehmigung would be
viewed by the US as being incompatible with the US requirement to have the intention
of renouncing your original citizenship.

In the first instance, where countries do not view the US oath as having any legal
effect, the person basically says "I renounce my original citizenship" (to US
officials) but his original country says "tough, you're still one of our citizens."
The US lets such a person continue to deal with his original country as one of its
citizens, because that person has satisfied the US requirement and it's not his
fault that the original country doesn't view the US oath's renunciatory statement as
being binding.

In the instance with Germany, the fact that the person took active steps to retain
his German citizenship, before becoming a US citizen, MIGHT be interpreted by the
State Department, as an indication that he wasn't truthful when he took the US oath,
and that he had no intention of renouncing his original citizenship.

Stephen Gallagher

Andy Platt

"James Donovan" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Personally I think citizenship rules should be changed, where the only people who
    > should be born citizens are those who have at least one USC or PR parent.

I agree but the word "rules" is a little soft here - it's part of the constitution so
would require an amendment which makes it much harder.

Andy.

--
I'm not really here - it's just your warped imagination.

Haliuna

"JOE THOMAS" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected] gy.com>...
    > I'll probably get flamed for this, but I got this forwarded to my email, and don't
    > know from who. As I said I'm all for legal immigration, it took my Filipina wife
    > over a year and half to get her k1 approved, we did it all legal. We had to wait a
    > long time.

You sound very naive. Most people would laugh if you say that by doing everything
legal way you had to wait for as long as a year and half. That wait is just for
immediate relatives. Wait till you start sponsoring your wife's relatives, you will
find out that a year and half is nothing compare with what people go through. People
wait decades. You might start thinking differently.

    > I come for visit, get treated regal, So I stay, who care I illegal?
    >
    > I cross border, poor and broke, Take bus, see employment folk.
    >
    > Nice man treat me good in there, Say I need to see welfare.
    >
    > Welfare say, "You come no more, We send cash right to your door."
    >
    > Welfare checks, they make you wealthy, Medicaid it keep you healthy!
    >
    > By and by, I got plenty money, Thanks to you, American dummy.
    >
    > Write to friends in motherland, Tell them come as fast as you can.
    >
    > They come in rags and Chebby trucks, I buy big house with welfare bucks.
    >
    > They come here, we live together, More welfare checks, it gets better!
    >
    > Fourteen families they moving in, But neighbor's patience wearing thin.
    >
    > Finally, white guy moves away, Now I buy his house, and then I say,
    >
    > "Find more aliens for house to rent." And in the yard I put a tent.
    >
    > Send for family (they just trash), But they, too, draw the welfare cash!
    >
    > Everything is mucho good, And soon we own the neighborhood.
    >
    > We have hobby--it's called breeding, Welfare pay for baby feeding.
    >
    > Kids need dentist? Wife need pills? We get free! We got no bills!
    >
    > American crazy! He pay all year, To keep welfare running here.
    >
    > We think America darn good place! Too darn good for the white man race. If they no
    > like us, they can go, Got lots of room in Mexico.
    >
    > fourth of july
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > "Prence" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > We would like to travel to USA, have a baby and come back to our home country. We
    > > do not need to settle in the US or stay in the country for any period beyond what
    > > is absolutely necessary.
    > >
    > > We are both non-US citizens but have previously traveled extensively within the
    > > US and getting any sort of US visa (tourist, business, even student) will not be
    > > a problem.
    > >
    > > Can anyone suggest the modus-operandi that should be employed to do this. I am
    > > hoping my child will have a secure future with a US citizenship in hand...
    > >
    > > Help please... PRENCE

Dave And Emily

Robert wrote news:4f4cc-
[email protected]:

    > "Ocean" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected] m>...
    >> All immigrants are bad, citizens are good. Because immigrants always trying to get
    >> the same good life conditions as sitizens, and INS make it so hard and tricky for
    >> them that they always brake the LAW and become criminals, and criminals are bad.
    > Hey "ocean," the depth of your thoughts can't even be compared with the depth of a
    > pond in my neighbor's yard. Look at the "sentences" you wrote! How many laws of
    > written English language you have violated? Whew! I stopped counting after 15.
    > You may say, "so what." The point is, that you're not a native English speaker (as
    > I am, lool), and by a luck you've probably obtained a good status and/or financial
    > independence (well, some may have higher statuses than you
    > do), but you also lost you common sense, and you lost the sense of your roots, your
    > origin and your culture. And now, in retrospect you harshly critisize and abhor
    > people who're trying to get here. I just wonder how you, or may be your parents
    > too, came to this country, and where you guys came from?
    > Just a thought.
    > R.

Funny; when I read Ocean's post, the first thing I thought of (because that's the way
my mind works) was Mr Mackey from South Park. "Drugs're bad, mkay? If you do drugs,
you're bad, mkay?" Dave.

Robert

"Ocean" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected] m>...
    > All immigrants are bad, citizens are good. Because immigrants always trying to get
    > the same good life conditions as sitizens, and INS make it so hard and tricky for
    > them that they always brake the LAW and become criminals, and criminals are bad.
    >

Hey "ocean," the depth of your thoughts can't even be compared with the depth of a
pond in my neighbor's yard. Look at the "sentences" you wrote! How many laws of
written English language you have violated? Whew! I stopped counting after 15. You
may say, "so what." The point is, that you're not a native English speaker (as I am,
lool), and by a luck you've probably obtained a good status and/or financial
independence (well, some may have higher statuses than you
do), but you also lost you common sense, and you lost the sense of your roots, your
origin and your culture. And now, in retrospect you harshly critisize and abhor
people who're trying to get here. I just wonder how you, or may be your parents
too, came to this country, and where you guys came from?

Just a thought.

e.

James Donovan

"Ocean" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected] m>...
    > All immigrants are bad, citizens are good.

If you are referring solely to illegal immigrants, you are 100% correct. Why? Illegal
immigrants undercut citizen and permanent resident wages. Illegal immigrants do not
pay taxes. Illegal immigrants make it harder for legal immigrants because INS makes
so many rules to combat the flood of illegal immigrants.

    > Because immigrants always trying to get the same good life conditions as sitizens,
    > and INS make it so hard and tricky for them that they always brake the LAW and
    > become criminals, and criminals are bad.

The reason the INS makes things so hard is because of illegal immigrants, not the
other way around. Legal immigrants are playing by the rules and often get the shitty
end of the stick because illegal immigrants broke the rules. Don't you even
understand? This is selfish behaviour on the part of illegal immigrants. They have no
idea of how much of the immigration system they have overloaded and slowed down and
totally destroyed by their totally selfish border jumping behaviour. All they care
about is their own selfish personal ambition and everyone else can go to hell. That
is why I have absolutely no sympathy when illegal aliens from any country are rounded
up, detained, deported and excluded from the United States.

James Donovan

[email protected] (Bodza Bodza) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]. com>...
    > [email protected] (James Donovan) wrote in message
    > > They broke the law, how can they be "better" citizens?
    >
    > i.e. what you are saying is the simple fact that they broke the law ONE TIME by
    > entering illegally makes them bad through and through.

Many illegal aliens break the law *much* more than just one time

    > On the contrary if you decide to cheat, steal, defraud the government etc you can
    > *still* stay in the country and are *still* entitled to benefits (after paying
    > fines) *without* having to leave the country?

You ****ing idiot. You cannot deport CITIZENS of a country. Where the hell will they
go? I am talking about deporting NON CITIZEN ILLEGAL ALIENS, who were not supposed to
be here in the first place. Let me spell it out for you. Citizens are SUPPOSED to be
here, illegal aliens are NOT.

    > Whereas if they after entering the country illegally break no other rules they are
    > *worse* than you? Hypocritical SOB.

No, I am not a hypocritical SOB. Illegal immigrants do not have any right to stay in
this country. They are not citizens or legal immigrants. That is the LAW, and they
must obey it. There is no sympathy for them because they broke the law in MY country.
It is not THEIR country. Tell me, if someone took up residence in your back yard
without your permission, would you like it? Won't it cost you money and inconvenience
to have them there? SO don't give me that bullshit that illegal immigrants have any
right in this country because they do NOT.

    >
    >
    > > It also means paying your TAXES, which illegal aliens do not
    > > do.
    >
    > What do you think sales tax is then?

It is not income tax and it is far less than what we citizens and permanent legal
residents pay in income and property and other taxes.

    >
    > > It also means willingness to serve in the US military, which illegal aliens can
    > > only do if drafted.
    >
    > Many illegal aliens *are* willing to serve in the US military but cannot.

Only because it will mean an automatic ticket to stay in the country. Illegal aliens
will do anything to stay in the country. We cannot have our country overpopulated
with the overpopulation of every part of the world.