How can I have a baby in the US ?
Jul 8th 2002, 2:20 am
#16
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can I have a baby in the US ?
Prence wrote:
> We would like to travel to USA, have a baby and come back to our home country. We
> do not need to settle in the US or stay in the country for any period beyond what
> is absolutely necessary.
>
> We are both non-US citizens but have previously traveled extensively within the US
> and getting any sort of US visa (tourist, business, even student) will not be a
> problem.
>
> Can anyone suggest the modus-operandi that should be employed to do this. I am
> hoping my child will have a secure future with a US citizenship in hand...
Well, if you believe that you don't have sufficient financial resources to ensure a
good living standard for your child, then it would be the best for you to abstain
from having children until your situation improves. I don't think that commiting
immigration fraud is a good start.
> We would like to travel to USA, have a baby and come back to our home country. We
> do not need to settle in the US or stay in the country for any period beyond what
> is absolutely necessary.
>
> We are both non-US citizens but have previously traveled extensively within the US
> and getting any sort of US visa (tourist, business, even student) will not be a
> problem.
>
> Can anyone suggest the modus-operandi that should be employed to do this. I am
> hoping my child will have a secure future with a US citizenship in hand...
Well, if you believe that you don't have sufficient financial resources to ensure a
good living standard for your child, then it would be the best for you to abstain
from having children until your situation improves. I don't think that commiting
immigration fraud is a good start.
Jul 8th 2002, 3:20 am
#17
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can I have a baby in the US ?
"Jan" wrote:
> let me get this straight .... anyone can have a baby in the USA and that baby
> is then a US citizen?
That's right. The US Constitution (14th Amendment) says that anyone born in the US is
automatically a US citizen. (The only exception is for children of foreign
diplomats.)
Note, BTW, that British law is not as permissive in this regard as US law. A
British-born child of foreign tourists does =not= get automatic British citizenship;
as I understand the law, at least one parent is required to be a citizen or resident
of the UK in order for the child to have British citizenship.
> So if you're on holiday from, say, the UK, and you have your baby in US, what
> happens if you don't want it to be a US citizen?
Tough. Unless you're a member of the British diplomatic service (with "diplomatic
immunity" from US jurisdiction), your US-born child will be considered by the US to
be a US citizen. There's not a blessed thing you can do about it. You cannot decline
or renounce your child's automatic claim to US citizenship. Your child may, if he/she
wishes, renounce his/her US citizenship when he/she grows up, but you (the parent)
cannot do this for him/her.
Now, if British parents have a child born in the US, chances are that the child will
be considered a British citizen according to British law. That is, the child will
have what is commonly nick- named "dual citizenship" -- which isn't any special
legal status in either country, but simply means that two countries each think the
child is one of their citizens (and really couldn't care less about the other
country's claim).
Note that neither the US nor the UK will care or mind if a child in this situation
keeps both citizenships for life. Many Americans are under the (mis)impression that
US law requires a "born dual" US/other citizen to choose a single citizenship when
he/she grows up, but this is in fact not the case and hasn't been for many years.
> Surely there's a question of residency here? Isn't that what immigration is
> all about?
Citizenship by birth is governed by a completely different set of laws from those
dealing with immigration and naturalization.
Note, though, that even if a foreign couple have a baby in the US, this does =not=
give the couple any sort of right to gain permanent residence in the US (a so-called
"green card"). The child cannot sponsor his/her parents for immigration to the US
until he/she grows up.
Rich Wales [email protected] http://www.richw.org/dualcit/ *DISCLAIMER: I am not a
lawyer, professional immigration consultant, or consular officer. My comments are for
discussion purposes only and are not intended to be relied upon as legal or
professional advice.
> let me get this straight .... anyone can have a baby in the USA and that baby
> is then a US citizen?
That's right. The US Constitution (14th Amendment) says that anyone born in the US is
automatically a US citizen. (The only exception is for children of foreign
diplomats.)
Note, BTW, that British law is not as permissive in this regard as US law. A
British-born child of foreign tourists does =not= get automatic British citizenship;
as I understand the law, at least one parent is required to be a citizen or resident
of the UK in order for the child to have British citizenship.
> So if you're on holiday from, say, the UK, and you have your baby in US, what
> happens if you don't want it to be a US citizen?
Tough. Unless you're a member of the British diplomatic service (with "diplomatic
immunity" from US jurisdiction), your US-born child will be considered by the US to
be a US citizen. There's not a blessed thing you can do about it. You cannot decline
or renounce your child's automatic claim to US citizenship. Your child may, if he/she
wishes, renounce his/her US citizenship when he/she grows up, but you (the parent)
cannot do this for him/her.
Now, if British parents have a child born in the US, chances are that the child will
be considered a British citizen according to British law. That is, the child will
have what is commonly nick- named "dual citizenship" -- which isn't any special
legal status in either country, but simply means that two countries each think the
child is one of their citizens (and really couldn't care less about the other
country's claim).
Note that neither the US nor the UK will care or mind if a child in this situation
keeps both citizenships for life. Many Americans are under the (mis)impression that
US law requires a "born dual" US/other citizen to choose a single citizenship when
he/she grows up, but this is in fact not the case and hasn't been for many years.
> Surely there's a question of residency here? Isn't that what immigration is
> all about?
Citizenship by birth is governed by a completely different set of laws from those
dealing with immigration and naturalization.
Note, though, that even if a foreign couple have a baby in the US, this does =not=
give the couple any sort of right to gain permanent residence in the US (a so-called
"green card"). The child cannot sponsor his/her parents for immigration to the US
until he/she grows up.
Rich Wales [email protected] http://www.richw.org/dualcit/ *DISCLAIMER: I am not a
lawyer, professional immigration consultant, or consular officer. My comments are for
discussion purposes only and are not intended to be relied upon as legal or
professional advice.
Jul 8th 2002, 4:08 am
#18
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can I have a baby in the US ?
My ex-wife and I had our youngest son in Germany. We are both US Citizens and hence
he has no claim what so ever to German citizenship; born there or not. Its a
ridiculous rule on the part of our Constitution. But.... You can't bring your
fiancee to visit you here in the states before marriage even though they're returning
to their home country to perform the immigration process. The INS will still say
they have an immigrant intent. It doesn't matter if it is now or later. Its
bullshit but that's the way it is. In this case, I would hope any INS officer could
see through this one. This idea is just wrong. I understand your hopes and dreams
for your child but do it the right way. I've read and agree that things like this
are the reasons that the system is so screwed up now for everyone, whether you're
trying to follow the rules or not.
Anton Gore
Rich Wales wrote:
> "Jan" wrote:
> > let me get this straight .... anyone can have a baby in the USA and that baby
> > is then a US citizen?
> That's right. The US Constitution (14th Amendment) says that anyone born in the US
> is automatically a US citizen. (The only exception is for children of foreign
> diplomats.)
> Note, BTW, that British law is not as permissive in this regard as US law. A
> British-born child of foreign tourists does =not= get automatic British
> citizenship; as I understand the law, at least one parent is required to be a
> citizen or resident of the UK in order for the child to have British citizenship.
> > So if you're on holiday from, say, the UK, and you have your baby in US, what
> > happens if you don't want it to be a US citizen?
> Tough. Unless you're a member of the British diplomatic service (with "diplomatic
> immunity" from US jurisdiction), your US-born child will be considered by the US to
> be a US citizen. There's not a blessed thing you can do about it. You cannot
> decline or renounce your child's automatic claim to US citizenship. Your child
> may, if he/she wishes, renounce his/her US citizenship when he/she grows up, but
> you (the parent) cannot do this for him/her.
> Now, if British parents have a child born in the US, chances are that the child
> will be considered a British citizen according to British law. That is, the child
> will have what is commonly nick- named "dual citizenship" -- which isn't any
> special legal status in either country, but simply means that two countries each
> think the child is one of their citizens (and really couldn't care less about the
> other country's claim).
> Note that neither the US nor the UK will care or mind if a child in this
> situation keeps both citizenships for life. Many Americans are under the
> (mis)impression that US law requires a "born dual" US/other citizen to choose a
> single citizenship when he/she grows up, but this is in fact not the case and
> hasn't been for many years.
> > Surely there's a question of residency here? Isn't that what immigration is
> > all about?
> Citizenship by birth is governed by a completely different set of laws from those
> dealing with immigration and naturalization.
> Note, though, that even if a foreign couple have a baby in the US, this does =not=
> give the couple any sort of right to gain permanent residence in the US (a
> so-called "green card"). The child cannot sponsor his/her parents for immigration
> to the US until he/she grows up.
> Rich Wales [email protected]
> http://www.richw.org/dualcit/
> *DISCLAIMER: I am not a lawyer, professional immigration consultant, or consular
> officer. My comments are for discussion purposes only and are not intended to be
> relied upon as legal or professional advice.
he has no claim what so ever to German citizenship; born there or not. Its a
ridiculous rule on the part of our Constitution. But.... You can't bring your
fiancee to visit you here in the states before marriage even though they're returning
to their home country to perform the immigration process. The INS will still say
they have an immigrant intent. It doesn't matter if it is now or later. Its
bullshit but that's the way it is. In this case, I would hope any INS officer could
see through this one. This idea is just wrong. I understand your hopes and dreams
for your child but do it the right way. I've read and agree that things like this
are the reasons that the system is so screwed up now for everyone, whether you're
trying to follow the rules or not.
Anton Gore
Rich Wales wrote:
> "Jan" wrote:
> > let me get this straight .... anyone can have a baby in the USA and that baby
> > is then a US citizen?
> That's right. The US Constitution (14th Amendment) says that anyone born in the US
> is automatically a US citizen. (The only exception is for children of foreign
> diplomats.)
> Note, BTW, that British law is not as permissive in this regard as US law. A
> British-born child of foreign tourists does =not= get automatic British
> citizenship; as I understand the law, at least one parent is required to be a
> citizen or resident of the UK in order for the child to have British citizenship.
> > So if you're on holiday from, say, the UK, and you have your baby in US, what
> > happens if you don't want it to be a US citizen?
> Tough. Unless you're a member of the British diplomatic service (with "diplomatic
> immunity" from US jurisdiction), your US-born child will be considered by the US to
> be a US citizen. There's not a blessed thing you can do about it. You cannot
> decline or renounce your child's automatic claim to US citizenship. Your child
> may, if he/she wishes, renounce his/her US citizenship when he/she grows up, but
> you (the parent) cannot do this for him/her.
> Now, if British parents have a child born in the US, chances are that the child
> will be considered a British citizen according to British law. That is, the child
> will have what is commonly nick- named "dual citizenship" -- which isn't any
> special legal status in either country, but simply means that two countries each
> think the child is one of their citizens (and really couldn't care less about the
> other country's claim).
> Note that neither the US nor the UK will care or mind if a child in this
> situation keeps both citizenships for life. Many Americans are under the
> (mis)impression that US law requires a "born dual" US/other citizen to choose a
> single citizenship when he/she grows up, but this is in fact not the case and
> hasn't been for many years.
> > Surely there's a question of residency here? Isn't that what immigration is
> > all about?
> Citizenship by birth is governed by a completely different set of laws from those
> dealing with immigration and naturalization.
> Note, though, that even if a foreign couple have a baby in the US, this does =not=
> give the couple any sort of right to gain permanent residence in the US (a
> so-called "green card"). The child cannot sponsor his/her parents for immigration
> to the US until he/she grows up.
> Rich Wales [email protected]
> http://www.richw.org/dualcit/
> *DISCLAIMER: I am not a lawyer, professional immigration consultant, or consular
> officer. My comments are for discussion purposes only and are not intended to be
> relied upon as legal or professional advice.
Jul 8th 2002, 4:10 am
#19
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can I have a baby in the US ?
Gereau not Gore. Sometimes I just hate spell check.
Anton Gereau wrote:
> My ex-wife and I had our youngest son in Germany. We are both US Citizens and
> hence he has no claim what so ever to German citizenship; born there or not. Its a
> ridiculous rule on the part of our Constitution. But.... You can't bring your
> fiancee to visit you here in the states before marriage even though they're
> returning to their home country to perform the immigration process. The INS will
> still say they have an immigrant intent. It doesn't matter if it is now or later.
> Its bullshit but that's the way it is. In this case, I would hope any INS officer
> could see through this one. This idea is just wrong. I understand your hopes and
> dreams for your child but do it the right way. I've read and agree that things like
> this are the reasons that the system is so screwed up now for everyone, whether
> you're trying to follow the rules or not.
> Anton Gore (Gereau - Sometimes I just hate spell check.)
> Rich Wales wrote:
>> "Jan" wrote:
>> > let me get this straight .... anyone can have a baby in the USA and that
>> > baby is then a US citizen?
>> That's right. The US Constitution (14th Amendment) says that anyone born in the
>> US is automatically a US citizen. (The only exception is for children of foreign
>> diplomats.)
>> Note, BTW, that British law is not as permissive in this regard as US law. A
>> British-born child of foreign tourists does =not= get automatic British
>> citizenship; as I understand the law, at least one parent is required to be a
>> citizen or resident of the UK in order for the child to have British citizenship.
>> > So if you're on holiday from, say, the UK, and you have your baby in US,
>> > what happens if you don't want it to be a US citizen?
>> Tough. Unless you're a member of the British diplomatic service (with "diplomatic
>> immunity" from US jurisdiction), your US-born child will be considered by the US
>> to be a US citizen. There's not a blessed thing you can do about it. You cannot
>> decline or renounce your child's automatic claim to US citizenship. Your child
>> may, if he/she wishes, renounce his/her US citizenship when he/she grows up, but
>> you (the parent) cannot do this for him/her.
>> Now, if British parents have a child born in the US, chances are that the child
>> will be considered a British citizen according to British law. That is, the child
>> will have what is commonly nick- named "dual citizenship" -- which isn't any
>> special legal status in either country, but simply means that two countries each
>> think the child is one of their citizens (and really couldn't care less about the
>> other country's claim).
>> Note that neither the US nor the UK will care or mind if a child in this
>> situation keeps both citizenships for life. Many Americans are under the
>> (mis)impression that US law requires a "born dual" US/other citizen to choose a
>> single citizenship when he/she grows up, but this is in fact not the case and
>> hasn't been for many years.
>> > Surely there's a question of residency here? Isn't that what immigration is
>> > all about?
>> Citizenship by birth is governed by a completely different set of laws from those
>> dealing with immigration and naturalization.
>> Note, though, that even if a foreign couple have a baby in the US, this does =not=
>> give the couple any sort of right to gain permanent residence in the US (a
>> so-called "green card"). The child cannot sponsor his/her parents for immigration
>> to the US until he/she grows up.
>> Rich Wales [email protected]
>> http://www.richw.org/dualcit/
>> *DISCLAIMER: I am not a lawyer, professional immigration consultant, or consular
>> officer. My comments are for discussion purposes only and are not intended to be
>> relied upon as legal or professional advice.
Anton Gereau wrote:
> My ex-wife and I had our youngest son in Germany. We are both US Citizens and
> hence he has no claim what so ever to German citizenship; born there or not. Its a
> ridiculous rule on the part of our Constitution. But.... You can't bring your
> fiancee to visit you here in the states before marriage even though they're
> returning to their home country to perform the immigration process. The INS will
> still say they have an immigrant intent. It doesn't matter if it is now or later.
> Its bullshit but that's the way it is. In this case, I would hope any INS officer
> could see through this one. This idea is just wrong. I understand your hopes and
> dreams for your child but do it the right way. I've read and agree that things like
> this are the reasons that the system is so screwed up now for everyone, whether
> you're trying to follow the rules or not.
> Anton Gore (Gereau - Sometimes I just hate spell check.)
> Rich Wales wrote:
>> "Jan" wrote:
>> > let me get this straight .... anyone can have a baby in the USA and that
>> > baby is then a US citizen?
>> That's right. The US Constitution (14th Amendment) says that anyone born in the
>> US is automatically a US citizen. (The only exception is for children of foreign
>> diplomats.)
>> Note, BTW, that British law is not as permissive in this regard as US law. A
>> British-born child of foreign tourists does =not= get automatic British
>> citizenship; as I understand the law, at least one parent is required to be a
>> citizen or resident of the UK in order for the child to have British citizenship.
>> > So if you're on holiday from, say, the UK, and you have your baby in US,
>> > what happens if you don't want it to be a US citizen?
>> Tough. Unless you're a member of the British diplomatic service (with "diplomatic
>> immunity" from US jurisdiction), your US-born child will be considered by the US
>> to be a US citizen. There's not a blessed thing you can do about it. You cannot
>> decline or renounce your child's automatic claim to US citizenship. Your child
>> may, if he/she wishes, renounce his/her US citizenship when he/she grows up, but
>> you (the parent) cannot do this for him/her.
>> Now, if British parents have a child born in the US, chances are that the child
>> will be considered a British citizen according to British law. That is, the child
>> will have what is commonly nick- named "dual citizenship" -- which isn't any
>> special legal status in either country, but simply means that two countries each
>> think the child is one of their citizens (and really couldn't care less about the
>> other country's claim).
>> Note that neither the US nor the UK will care or mind if a child in this
>> situation keeps both citizenships for life. Many Americans are under the
>> (mis)impression that US law requires a "born dual" US/other citizen to choose a
>> single citizenship when he/she grows up, but this is in fact not the case and
>> hasn't been for many years.
>> > Surely there's a question of residency here? Isn't that what immigration is
>> > all about?
>> Citizenship by birth is governed by a completely different set of laws from those
>> dealing with immigration and naturalization.
>> Note, though, that even if a foreign couple have a baby in the US, this does =not=
>> give the couple any sort of right to gain permanent residence in the US (a
>> so-called "green card"). The child cannot sponsor his/her parents for immigration
>> to the US until he/she grows up.
>> Rich Wales [email protected]
>> http://www.richw.org/dualcit/
>> *DISCLAIMER: I am not a lawyer, professional immigration consultant, or consular
>> officer. My comments are for discussion purposes only and are not intended to be
>> relied upon as legal or professional advice.
Jul 8th 2002, 4:20 am
#20
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can I have a baby in the US ?
"Claire Keller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:h41W8.261804$nZ3.121473@rwcrnsc53...
> Why should my taxes pay for you to have a baby in the USA then claim benefits when
> your intent is to defraud the government of this country.
What are you talking about? Why would your taxes be involved in this at all? Who said
anything about claiming benefits? What evidence is there of any intent to defraud the
government of any country?
news:h41W8.261804$nZ3.121473@rwcrnsc53...
> Why should my taxes pay for you to have a baby in the USA then claim benefits when
> your intent is to defraud the government of this country.
What are you talking about? Why would your taxes be involved in this at all? Who said
anything about claiming benefits? What evidence is there of any intent to defraud the
government of any country?
Jul 8th 2002, 4:20 am
#21
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can I have a baby in the US ?
"vix" wrote:
> Actually, can anyone tell me if acquiring citizenship in the US is the
> same/similar as in the UK ......
US law is considerably more liberal in this area than British law.
Under US law, any child born in the US (except for a child of a foreign diplomat)
automatically gets US citizenship at birth. The US does not require either parent to
be a citizen or permanent resident of the US. The parents could even be in the US
illegally, and their US-born child would still have automatic US citizenship.
References:
Immigration and Nationality Act, Section 301(a); 8 USC 1401(a)
[http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/8/1401.html]
US Constitution, Amendment XIV, Section 1 [http://www.archives.gov/exhibit_hall/char-
ters_of_freedom/constitution/amendments_11-27.html#14.1]
Dual Citizenship FAQ [http://www.richw.org/dualcit/law.html#CitByBirth]
Note, though, that even though a US-born child of foreign visitors is automatically a
US citizen, this does not give the parents any claim to US citizenship or residency.
(The child can sponsor his/ her parents for immigration to the US, but not until
he/she grows up.)
Rich Wales [email protected] http://www.richw.org/dualcit/ *DISCLAIMER: I am not a
lawyer, professional immigration consultant, or consular officer. My comments are for
discussion purposes only and are not intended to be relied upon as legal or
professional advice.
> Actually, can anyone tell me if acquiring citizenship in the US is the
> same/similar as in the UK ......
US law is considerably more liberal in this area than British law.
Under US law, any child born in the US (except for a child of a foreign diplomat)
automatically gets US citizenship at birth. The US does not require either parent to
be a citizen or permanent resident of the US. The parents could even be in the US
illegally, and their US-born child would still have automatic US citizenship.
References:
Immigration and Nationality Act, Section 301(a); 8 USC 1401(a)
[http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/8/1401.html]
US Constitution, Amendment XIV, Section 1 [http://www.archives.gov/exhibit_hall/char-
ters_of_freedom/constitution/amendments_11-27.html#14.1]
Dual Citizenship FAQ [http://www.richw.org/dualcit/law.html#CitByBirth]
Note, though, that even though a US-born child of foreign visitors is automatically a
US citizen, this does not give the parents any claim to US citizenship or residency.
(The child can sponsor his/ her parents for immigration to the US, but not until
he/she grows up.)
Rich Wales [email protected] http://www.richw.org/dualcit/ *DISCLAIMER: I am not a
lawyer, professional immigration consultant, or consular officer. My comments are for
discussion purposes only and are not intended to be relied upon as legal or
professional advice.
Jul 8th 2002, 4:20 am
#22
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can I have a baby in the US ?
"Jan" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> let me get this straight .... anyone can have a baby in the USA and that baby is
> then a USCitizen ? So if your on holiday from say UK and you have your baby in US
> what happens if you dont want it to ba a USC ?
Your wants don't get satisfied. If you don't want the child to be a USA citizen,
don't be in the USA when it is born.
> Surely theres a question of residency here?
What do you mean by residency? The child is resident in the USA at the moment it
comes into legal existance from the citizenship point of view - when it is born. The
status of its mother isn't relevant.
> isnt that what immigration is all about ?
What does this have to do with immigration? Anyone born in the USA is a USA
citizen (though I think there may be some minor exceptions if the mother is an
accredited dipomat).
> let me get this straight .... anyone can have a baby in the USA and that baby is
> then a USCitizen ? So if your on holiday from say UK and you have your baby in US
> what happens if you dont want it to ba a USC ?
Your wants don't get satisfied. If you don't want the child to be a USA citizen,
don't be in the USA when it is born.
> Surely theres a question of residency here?
What do you mean by residency? The child is resident in the USA at the moment it
comes into legal existance from the citizenship point of view - when it is born. The
status of its mother isn't relevant.
> isnt that what immigration is all about ?
What does this have to do with immigration? Anyone born in the USA is a USA
citizen (though I think there may be some minor exceptions if the mother is an
accredited dipomat).
Jul 8th 2002, 4:20 am
#23
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can I have a baby in the US ?
"Dhiraj Sood" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> having a child in the US on a tourist visa is not illegal.
Of course not. However, entering for the declared purpose of tourism when the
actual purpose is to have the child born in the USA could reasonably be construed
as immigration fraud. If she tells the INS inspector that the purpose of her visit
is to have her child born in the USA and she gets let in, then there is clearly
nothing illegal.
news:[email protected]...
>
> having a child in the US on a tourist visa is not illegal.
Of course not. However, entering for the declared purpose of tourism when the
actual purpose is to have the child born in the USA could reasonably be construed
as immigration fraud. If she tells the INS inspector that the purpose of her visit
is to have her child born in the USA and she gets let in, then there is clearly
nothing illegal.
Jul 8th 2002, 4:20 am
#24
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can I have a baby in the US ?
Ingo Pakleppa <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>. ..
> On Sun, 07 Jul 2002 08:47:17 -0700, Alvena Ferreira wrote:
>
> > Prence wrote:
> >> We would like to travel to USA, have a baby and come back to our home country.
> >> We do not need to settle in the US or stay in the country for any period beyond
> >> what is absolutely necessary. We are both non-US citizens but have previously
> >> traveled extensively within the US and getting any sort of US visa (tourist,
> >> business, even student) will not be a problem. Can anyone suggest the
> >> modus-operandi that should be employed to do this. I am hoping my child will
> >> have a secure future with a US citizenship in hand...
> >>
> > The other problem you will have is that you may not be able to travel when you
> > are that close to delivery. I'm sorry, but this is clearly fraudulent intent for
> > entrance into the US, and I don't care for the smell of it. US citizenship is not
> > meant to be a ticket for success, but for persons who reside in the US. You are
> > blatantly ignoring this, it appears. Alvena
>
> You know, I would disagree with that. First, US citizenship is not meant for people
> who reside in the US. There are many people who reside in the US and aren't US
> citizens (yours truly, for instance). And there are many people who are US citizens
> and don't reside in the US.
>
> US citizenship merely indicates an attachment to the country - and they clearly
> have this attachment, probably more so than the average "my grandparent was born
> here" US citizen.
I am sorry, I tend to disagree with you. People often flee to the US in the hope that
they can live in the land of milk and honey. We have far too many economic refugees
here. If attachment to the country were a criteria for US citizenship, then Canada,
Mexico, China, India and several other countries would be empty and all of their
people would be in the US. Unfortunately the only thing many people like about this
country is the value of the currency.
Fraud is fraud, and clearly someone coming just to have a baby here is committing
such and should be refused entry and promptly deported.
Obviously, an immigrant would appreciate US citizenship more, simply because they
know what it is like to live in another less fortunate country. However, on the other
side of the coin, US citizens have nowhere to turn if this country lands up in the
toilet, whereas immigrants can simply go back home, often converting their currency
at a generous exchange rate and living like royalty back in their home countries.
THAT is why citizenship is important to a "my grandparent was born here" citizen than
an immigrant.
news:<[email protected]>. ..
> On Sun, 07 Jul 2002 08:47:17 -0700, Alvena Ferreira wrote:
>
> > Prence wrote:
> >> We would like to travel to USA, have a baby and come back to our home country.
> >> We do not need to settle in the US or stay in the country for any period beyond
> >> what is absolutely necessary. We are both non-US citizens but have previously
> >> traveled extensively within the US and getting any sort of US visa (tourist,
> >> business, even student) will not be a problem. Can anyone suggest the
> >> modus-operandi that should be employed to do this. I am hoping my child will
> >> have a secure future with a US citizenship in hand...
> >>
> > The other problem you will have is that you may not be able to travel when you
> > are that close to delivery. I'm sorry, but this is clearly fraudulent intent for
> > entrance into the US, and I don't care for the smell of it. US citizenship is not
> > meant to be a ticket for success, but for persons who reside in the US. You are
> > blatantly ignoring this, it appears. Alvena
>
> You know, I would disagree with that. First, US citizenship is not meant for people
> who reside in the US. There are many people who reside in the US and aren't US
> citizens (yours truly, for instance). And there are many people who are US citizens
> and don't reside in the US.
>
> US citizenship merely indicates an attachment to the country - and they clearly
> have this attachment, probably more so than the average "my grandparent was born
> here" US citizen.
I am sorry, I tend to disagree with you. People often flee to the US in the hope that
they can live in the land of milk and honey. We have far too many economic refugees
here. If attachment to the country were a criteria for US citizenship, then Canada,
Mexico, China, India and several other countries would be empty and all of their
people would be in the US. Unfortunately the only thing many people like about this
country is the value of the currency.
Fraud is fraud, and clearly someone coming just to have a baby here is committing
such and should be refused entry and promptly deported.
Obviously, an immigrant would appreciate US citizenship more, simply because they
know what it is like to live in another less fortunate country. However, on the other
side of the coin, US citizens have nowhere to turn if this country lands up in the
toilet, whereas immigrants can simply go back home, often converting their currency
at a generous exchange rate and living like royalty back in their home countries.
THAT is why citizenship is important to a "my grandparent was born here" citizen than
an immigrant.
Jul 8th 2002, 4:20 am
#25
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can I have a baby in the US ?
"Dhiraj Sood" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> Although I agree with Alvena from a personal point of view, having a child in the
> US on a tourist visa is not illegal. Not yet anyways.
>
> Please make sure that
> a) you have the proper insurance coverage or about $10,000-12,000 in cash (or
> better yet, both insurance and money),
> b) get to the US by your 6th-7th month of pregnancy
> c) rent a place to live for 4-5 months,
> d) deliver the baby and live here for another month or so to get child's passport,
> birth certificate, etc.
>
> There is no law that prevents or disallows tourists from having babies here.
But, an INS inspector can refuse entry for any reason, and in this case immigrant
intent is very much possible.
news:<[email protected]>...
> Although I agree with Alvena from a personal point of view, having a child in the
> US on a tourist visa is not illegal. Not yet anyways.
>
> Please make sure that
> a) you have the proper insurance coverage or about $10,000-12,000 in cash (or
> better yet, both insurance and money),
> b) get to the US by your 6th-7th month of pregnancy
> c) rent a place to live for 4-5 months,
> d) deliver the baby and live here for another month or so to get child's passport,
> birth certificate, etc.
>
> There is no law that prevents or disallows tourists from having babies here.
But, an INS inspector can refuse entry for any reason, and in this case immigrant
intent is very much possible.
Jul 8th 2002, 6:20 am
#26
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can I have a baby in the US ?
I'll probably get flamed for this, but I got this forwarded to my email, and don't
know from who. As I said I'm all for legal immigration, it took my Filipina wife
over a year and half to get her k1 approved, we did it all legal. We had to wait a
long time.
harsh but all too true:
I come for visit, get treated regal, So I stay, who care I illegal?
I cross border, poor and broke, Take bus, see employment folk.
Nice man treat me good in there, Say I need to see welfare.
Welfare say, "You come no more, We send cash right to your door."
Welfare checks, they make you wealthy, Medicaid it keep you healthy!
By and by, I got plenty money, Thanks to you, American dummy.
Write to friends in motherland, Tell them come as fast as you can.
They come in rags and Chebby trucks, I buy big house with welfare bucks.
They come here, we live together, More welfare checks, it gets better!
Fourteen families they moving in, But neighbor's patience wearing thin.
Finally, white guy moves away, Now I buy his house, and then I say,
"Find more aliens for house to rent." And in the yard I put a tent.
Send for family (they just trash), But they, too, draw the welfare cash!
Everything is mucho good, And soon we own the neighborhood.
We have hobby--it's called breeding, Welfare pay for baby feeding.
Kids need dentist? Wife need pills? We get free! We got no bills!
American crazy! He pay all year, To keep welfare running here.
We think America darn good place! Too darn good for the white man race. If they no
like us, they can go, Got lots of room in Mexico.
fourth of july
"Prence" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> We would like to travel to USA, have a baby and come back to our home country. We
> do not need to settle in the US or stay in the country for any period beyond what
> is absolutely necessary.
>
> We are both non-US citizens but have previously traveled extensively within the US
> and getting any sort of US visa (tourist, business, even student) will not be a
> problem.
>
> Can anyone suggest the modus-operandi that should be employed to do this. I am
> hoping my child will have a secure future with a US citizenship in hand...
>
> Help please... PRENCE
know from who. As I said I'm all for legal immigration, it took my Filipina wife
over a year and half to get her k1 approved, we did it all legal. We had to wait a
long time.
harsh but all too true:
I come for visit, get treated regal, So I stay, who care I illegal?
I cross border, poor and broke, Take bus, see employment folk.
Nice man treat me good in there, Say I need to see welfare.
Welfare say, "You come no more, We send cash right to your door."
Welfare checks, they make you wealthy, Medicaid it keep you healthy!
By and by, I got plenty money, Thanks to you, American dummy.
Write to friends in motherland, Tell them come as fast as you can.
They come in rags and Chebby trucks, I buy big house with welfare bucks.
They come here, we live together, More welfare checks, it gets better!
Fourteen families they moving in, But neighbor's patience wearing thin.
Finally, white guy moves away, Now I buy his house, and then I say,
"Find more aliens for house to rent." And in the yard I put a tent.
Send for family (they just trash), But they, too, draw the welfare cash!
Everything is mucho good, And soon we own the neighborhood.
We have hobby--it's called breeding, Welfare pay for baby feeding.
Kids need dentist? Wife need pills? We get free! We got no bills!
American crazy! He pay all year, To keep welfare running here.
We think America darn good place! Too darn good for the white man race. If they no
like us, they can go, Got lots of room in Mexico.
fourth of july
"Prence" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> We would like to travel to USA, have a baby and come back to our home country. We
> do not need to settle in the US or stay in the country for any period beyond what
> is absolutely necessary.
>
> We are both non-US citizens but have previously traveled extensively within the US
> and getting any sort of US visa (tourist, business, even student) will not be a
> problem.
>
> Can anyone suggest the modus-operandi that should be employed to do this. I am
> hoping my child will have a secure future with a US citizenship in hand...
>
> Help please... PRENCE
Jul 8th 2002, 7:20 am
#27
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can I have a baby in the US ?
Jan wrote:
> let me get this straight .... anyone can have a baby in the USA and that baby is
> then a USCitizen ?
Nearly anyone. Children of diplomats are usually not automatically US citizens, since
diplomats don't fall under US jurisdiction.
> So if your on holiday from say UK and you have your baby in US what happens if you
> dont want it to ba a USC ?
Have the baby somewhere else.
> Surely theres a question of residency here? isnt that what immigration is
> all about ?
No. As per the 14th amendment to the US constitution, any child born in the US under
US jurisdiction is a US citizen. Period.
BTW, historically, this amendment was enacted to make sure that children of slaves
born in the US had citizenship and were allowed to vote.
-Joe
> let me get this straight .... anyone can have a baby in the USA and that baby is
> then a USCitizen ?
Nearly anyone. Children of diplomats are usually not automatically US citizens, since
diplomats don't fall under US jurisdiction.
> So if your on holiday from say UK and you have your baby in US what happens if you
> dont want it to ba a USC ?
Have the baby somewhere else.
> Surely theres a question of residency here? isnt that what immigration is
> all about ?
No. As per the 14th amendment to the US constitution, any child born in the US under
US jurisdiction is a US citizen. Period.
BTW, historically, this amendment was enacted to make sure that children of slaves
born in the US had citizenship and were allowed to vote.
-Joe
Jul 8th 2002, 3:20 pm
#28
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can I have a baby in the US ?
Just out of curiousity...
Why do you want to have your baby in the USA? You know of course that your child
won't be able to petition for your green card until he/she turns 21 and that the
child will have to be domiciled (living) in the USA too right? You know also that the
child will have to be making enough money to support his or herself as well as the
both of you right?
This of course also assumes that your child will still like you enough to petition
for you. Children change so much when they grow up, you never know what to expect.
Generally, it's not worth the hassle, and morally it's not right using your child for
your own personal gain.
[email protected] (Prence) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]. com>...
> We would like to travel to USA, have a baby and come back to our home country. We
> do not need to settle in the US or stay in the country for any period beyond what
> is absolutely necessary.
>
> We are both non-US citizens but have previously traveled extensively within the US
> and getting any sort of US visa (tourist, business, even student) will not be a
> problem.
>
> Can anyone suggest the modus-operandi that should be employed to do this. I am
> hoping my child will have a secure future with a US citizenship in hand...
>
> Help please... PRENCE
Why do you want to have your baby in the USA? You know of course that your child
won't be able to petition for your green card until he/she turns 21 and that the
child will have to be domiciled (living) in the USA too right? You know also that the
child will have to be making enough money to support his or herself as well as the
both of you right?
This of course also assumes that your child will still like you enough to petition
for you. Children change so much when they grow up, you never know what to expect.
Generally, it's not worth the hassle, and morally it's not right using your child for
your own personal gain.
[email protected] (Prence) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]. com>...
> We would like to travel to USA, have a baby and come back to our home country. We
> do not need to settle in the US or stay in the country for any period beyond what
> is absolutely necessary.
>
> We are both non-US citizens but have previously traveled extensively within the US
> and getting any sort of US visa (tourist, business, even student) will not be a
> problem.
>
> Can anyone suggest the modus-operandi that should be employed to do this. I am
> hoping my child will have a secure future with a US citizenship in hand...
>
> Help please... PRENCE
Jul 8th 2002, 3:20 pm
#29
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can I have a baby in the US ?
Absolutely SICKENING. I feel to throw up now.
"JOE THOMAS" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected] gy.com>...
> I'll probably get flamed for this, but I got this forwarded to my email, and don't
> know from who. As I said I'm all for legal immigration, it took my Filipina wife
> over a year and half to get her k1 approved, we did it all legal. We had to wait a
> long time.
>
>
> harsh but all too true:
>
>
>
> I come for visit, get treated regal, So I stay, who care I illegal?
>
> I cross border, poor and broke, Take bus, see employment folk.
>
> Nice man treat me good in there, Say I need to see welfare.
>
> Welfare say, "You come no more, We send cash right to your door."
>
> Welfare checks, they make you wealthy, Medicaid it keep you healthy!
>
> By and by, I got plenty money, Thanks to you, American dummy.
>
> Write to friends in motherland, Tell them come as fast as you can.
>
> They come in rags and Chebby trucks, I buy big house with welfare bucks.
>
> They come here, we live together, More welfare checks, it gets better!
>
> Fourteen families they moving in, But neighbor's patience wearing thin.
>
> Finally, white guy moves away, Now I buy his house, and then I say,
>
> "Find more aliens for house to rent." And in the yard I put a tent.
>
> Send for family (they just trash), But they, too, draw the welfare cash!
>
> Everything is mucho good, And soon we own the neighborhood.
>
> We have hobby--it's called breeding, Welfare pay for baby feeding.
>
> Kids need dentist? Wife need pills? We get free! We got no bills!
>
> American crazy! He pay all year, To keep welfare running here.
>
> We think America darn good place! Too darn good for the white man race. If they no
> like us, they can go, Got lots of room in Mexico.
>
> fourth of july
>
>
>
>
>
> "Prence" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > We would like to travel to USA, have a baby and come back to our home country. We
> > do not need to settle in the US or stay in the country for any period beyond what
> > is absolutely necessary.
> >
> > We are both non-US citizens but have previously traveled extensively within the
> > US and getting any sort of US visa (tourist, business, even student) will not be
> > a problem.
> >
> > Can anyone suggest the modus-operandi that should be employed to do this. I am
> > hoping my child will have a secure future with a US citizenship in hand...
> >
> > Help please... PRENCE
"JOE THOMAS" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected] gy.com>...
> I'll probably get flamed for this, but I got this forwarded to my email, and don't
> know from who. As I said I'm all for legal immigration, it took my Filipina wife
> over a year and half to get her k1 approved, we did it all legal. We had to wait a
> long time.
>
>
> harsh but all too true:
>
>
>
> I come for visit, get treated regal, So I stay, who care I illegal?
>
> I cross border, poor and broke, Take bus, see employment folk.
>
> Nice man treat me good in there, Say I need to see welfare.
>
> Welfare say, "You come no more, We send cash right to your door."
>
> Welfare checks, they make you wealthy, Medicaid it keep you healthy!
>
> By and by, I got plenty money, Thanks to you, American dummy.
>
> Write to friends in motherland, Tell them come as fast as you can.
>
> They come in rags and Chebby trucks, I buy big house with welfare bucks.
>
> They come here, we live together, More welfare checks, it gets better!
>
> Fourteen families they moving in, But neighbor's patience wearing thin.
>
> Finally, white guy moves away, Now I buy his house, and then I say,
>
> "Find more aliens for house to rent." And in the yard I put a tent.
>
> Send for family (they just trash), But they, too, draw the welfare cash!
>
> Everything is mucho good, And soon we own the neighborhood.
>
> We have hobby--it's called breeding, Welfare pay for baby feeding.
>
> Kids need dentist? Wife need pills? We get free! We got no bills!
>
> American crazy! He pay all year, To keep welfare running here.
>
> We think America darn good place! Too darn good for the white man race. If they no
> like us, they can go, Got lots of room in Mexico.
>
> fourth of july
>
>
>
>
>
> "Prence" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > We would like to travel to USA, have a baby and come back to our home country. We
> > do not need to settle in the US or stay in the country for any period beyond what
> > is absolutely necessary.
> >
> > We are both non-US citizens but have previously traveled extensively within the
> > US and getting any sort of US visa (tourist, business, even student) will not be
> > a problem.
> >
> > Can anyone suggest the modus-operandi that should be employed to do this. I am
> > hoping my child will have a secure future with a US citizenship in hand...
> >
> > Help please... PRENCE
Jul 8th 2002, 4:20 pm
#30
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can I have a baby in the US ?
"JOE THOMAS" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected] gy.com>...
> harsh but all too true:
And so I'll rise to the bait.
Wade into the river, through the rippling shallow water Steal across the thirsty
border, bracero Come bring your hungry bodies to the golden fields of plenty From a
peso to a penny, bracero Oh, Welcome to California Where the friendly farmer will
take care of you
Come labor for your mother, your father and your brother For your sister and your
lover, bracero Come pick the fruit of yellow, break the flower from the berry Purple
grapes will fill your belly, bracero Oh, Welcome to California Where the friendly
farmer will take care of you
And the sun will bite your body, as the dust will draw you thristy While your muscles
beg for mercy, bracero In the shade of your sombrero, drop your sweat upon the soil
Like the fruit your youth can spoil, bracero Oh, Welcome to California Where the
friendly farmer will take care of you
When the weary night embraces, sleep in shacks that could be cages They will take it
from your wages, bracero Come sing about tomorrow with a jingle of the dollar And
forget your crooked collar, bracero Oh, Welcome to California Where the friendly
farmer will take care of you
And the local men are lazy, and they make too much of trouble Besides we'd have to
pay the double, bracero But if you feel you're fallin', if you find the pace is
killing There are others who are willing, bracero Oh, Welcome to California Where the
friendly farmer will take care of you --Phil Ochs, "Bracero"
The crops are all in and the peaches are rotting, The oranges are packed in their
creosote dumps. They're flying 'em back to the Mexico border To take all their money
to wade back again.
Goodbye to my Juan, goodbye Rosalita, Adios mis amigos, Jesus y Maria. You won't have
a name when you ride the big airplane, All they will call you will be "deportees."
My father's own father, he waded that river. They took all the money he made in his
life. My brothers and sisters came workin' the fruit trees, They rode the big trucks
'till they laid down and died.
Goodbye to my Juan, goodbye Rosalita, Adios mis amigos, Jesus y Maria. You won't have
a name when you ride the big airplane, All they will call you will be "deportees."
The skyplane caught fire over Los Gatos Canyon, A fireball of lightning and it shook
all the hills. Who are these comrades, they're dying like the dry leaves? The radio
tells me, "They're just deportees."
We died in your hills and we died in your deserts, We died in your valleys, we died
in your plains. We died 'neath your trees and we died 'neath your bushes, Both sides
of the river we died just the same.
Goodbye to my Juan, goodbye Rosalita, Adios mis amigos, Jesus y Maria. You won't have
a name when you ride the big airplane, All they will call you will be "deportees"
Is this the best way we can grow our big orchards? Is this the best way we can grow
our good fruit? To die like the dry leaves and rot on my topsoil And be known by no
name except "deportee."
Goodbye to my Juan, goodbye Rosalita, Adios mis amigos, Jesus y Maria. You won't have
a name when you ride the big airplane, All they will call you will be "deportees."
All they will call you will be "deportees." --Woody Guthrie, "Deportees (Plane Crash
at Los Gatos)"
I'd add dozens more, but I doubt anyone would read 'em.
--Toby Everett
news:<[email protected] gy.com>...
> harsh but all too true:
And so I'll rise to the bait.
Wade into the river, through the rippling shallow water Steal across the thirsty
border, bracero Come bring your hungry bodies to the golden fields of plenty From a
peso to a penny, bracero Oh, Welcome to California Where the friendly farmer will
take care of you
Come labor for your mother, your father and your brother For your sister and your
lover, bracero Come pick the fruit of yellow, break the flower from the berry Purple
grapes will fill your belly, bracero Oh, Welcome to California Where the friendly
farmer will take care of you
And the sun will bite your body, as the dust will draw you thristy While your muscles
beg for mercy, bracero In the shade of your sombrero, drop your sweat upon the soil
Like the fruit your youth can spoil, bracero Oh, Welcome to California Where the
friendly farmer will take care of you
When the weary night embraces, sleep in shacks that could be cages They will take it
from your wages, bracero Come sing about tomorrow with a jingle of the dollar And
forget your crooked collar, bracero Oh, Welcome to California Where the friendly
farmer will take care of you
And the local men are lazy, and they make too much of trouble Besides we'd have to
pay the double, bracero But if you feel you're fallin', if you find the pace is
killing There are others who are willing, bracero Oh, Welcome to California Where the
friendly farmer will take care of you --Phil Ochs, "Bracero"
The crops are all in and the peaches are rotting, The oranges are packed in their
creosote dumps. They're flying 'em back to the Mexico border To take all their money
to wade back again.
Goodbye to my Juan, goodbye Rosalita, Adios mis amigos, Jesus y Maria. You won't have
a name when you ride the big airplane, All they will call you will be "deportees."
My father's own father, he waded that river. They took all the money he made in his
life. My brothers and sisters came workin' the fruit trees, They rode the big trucks
'till they laid down and died.
Goodbye to my Juan, goodbye Rosalita, Adios mis amigos, Jesus y Maria. You won't have
a name when you ride the big airplane, All they will call you will be "deportees."
The skyplane caught fire over Los Gatos Canyon, A fireball of lightning and it shook
all the hills. Who are these comrades, they're dying like the dry leaves? The radio
tells me, "They're just deportees."
We died in your hills and we died in your deserts, We died in your valleys, we died
in your plains. We died 'neath your trees and we died 'neath your bushes, Both sides
of the river we died just the same.
Goodbye to my Juan, goodbye Rosalita, Adios mis amigos, Jesus y Maria. You won't have
a name when you ride the big airplane, All they will call you will be "deportees"
Is this the best way we can grow our big orchards? Is this the best way we can grow
our good fruit? To die like the dry leaves and rot on my topsoil And be known by no
name except "deportee."
Goodbye to my Juan, goodbye Rosalita, Adios mis amigos, Jesus y Maria. You won't have
a name when you ride the big airplane, All they will call you will be "deportees."
All they will call you will be "deportees." --Woody Guthrie, "Deportees (Plane Crash
at Los Gatos)"
I'd add dozens more, but I doubt anyone would read 'em.
--Toby Everett