supernav

If there's another terrorist strike in this country, and thousands of americans die...

i can BET YOU a 95% chance it'll be from a MUSLIM ISLAMIC MALE between the ages of 18 and 35.

Trust me, it aint' going to be from a 50 year old irish grandmother.

Therefore, i'm all for profiling. I don't need more planes flying into my skyscraper monday morning.

My righst to be safe as an american supercede a newcomer's rights not to be asked 9 million questions on his first entry to the US. It's a necessary procedure for our protection of our loved ones. I doubt any POE officers take any personal enjoyment out of it.

-= nav =-

Matthew Udall

Sounds like a very nice fellow. Thanks for not flaming me for mentioning the stereotype that I’ve always heard. Stereotypes are just that, a profile, and I know that many or most people don’t neatly fit into a profile.

I hear you about the child part. I’ve not been an active member of the church I was brought up in for many years now (lost interest in my early teens) and since that time I’ve pretty much just tried to be a good guy to my fellow man (my sense of right and wrong is influenced by my early upbringing). The lovely Lisa (my soon to be ex-spouse) was from the Jewish faith although she too did not really practice it that much. But I did enjoy learning some things about that faith and their traditions. I really liked all of the members of her family (and they made me feel like one of the family too) and I enjoyed celebrating some of their special holidays and traditions with them.

We also celebrated Christmas too. Actually, the differences in religion never seemed to be an issue in the least.

Now, lifestyles… that is a different matter altogether. I like the beach, skiing, windsurfing, brewing, hang gliding, camping, that sort of thing. She liked reading, museums, shoes and fashion… turns out we really were not that compatible when it came to some of the day to day things (although before marriage, I had the naive notion that having these differences would be a good thing as we could both expand our interests and learn from the other person). I always thought that if we had kids (and we never did… we were only married a few years) I would be the Dad who took them skiing while Mom stayed at home (of course, she would be welcomed to join in the fun).

My roommate’s ex is the second wife in an Islamic marriage. I don’t think it is a legal marriage and I don’t even think the Mosk (is that what they call it?) condones it, but she’s his (informal) second wife just the same. She has converted and wears a special outfit (full body outfit). My roommate and she had a few sons during their common law marriage, and the boys seem to be pretty understanding. Last year there was no Christmas at their house, but this year I hear they actually put up a tree for the boys and even had a few presents.

Thanks for your reply. Sounds like you have a very nice relationship that is working well for the both of you (well, except for this current immigration hurdle :-).

llorona

Thank you. I will.

llorona

Folinskyinla

Hi:

"Muslim islamic"??? Oh, well, as a lawyer, I shouldn't be bothered when people are redundant, repetitive and say things more than once.

As I mentioned before, "profiling" is a sensitive subject -- and it can be a straight jacket. Terrorists can work their way around profiles quite easily once they figure out what they are.

There has been mention of Ben Gurion Airport. Before Ben Gurion's death, it was known as Lod Airport. Google that name and the year 1972. Do you think that Israel should exclude Japanese tourists in business suits?

As far as I am concerned, there is no problem with a marriage fraud interview being conducted at the POE. However, they should be damn well POLITE about it. Honey can go a long way.

If we are talking about stereotypes -- Israelis do not lean towards politeness [and they make for interesting clients]. And yet, somehow, the Israeli government has mastered the trick of having airport inspections which are nosey, instrusive, lengthy, detailed AND polite.

I have often thought that US inspectors and DAO's should be shuttled through Ben Gurion to see how its done.

llorona

Hello Mr. Udall,

30 seconds? Hmmmm, I think not. More like 4 hours. The male officer was quite dispassionate while the female officer was bitchy to me (the way she looked me up and down and zeroed in on my engagement ring.) However, my fiance' said that she was NICE to him while the other three male officers were quite rude.

Were two officers really necessary for my interview?

Also when she came out to announce that my fiance' was finishing up the processing, and then stood at the door to see our reunion. Was that really necessary at that point? If they had wanted to see us together, they could have granted my request to join my fiance'.

Gimme a break!!!

llorona

llorona

Hello Patty,

Yes, we did read all the posts together. We also visited the Cair site. Thanks for the information and the warm welcome.

llorona

Folinskyinla

Hi:

Word of warning from experience -- sometimes a particular alien's file can become snakebit -- often for no reason. Your timeline indicates some problems in Casablanca. You really have no idea what was in the brown envelope or on the computer screen [POE's can retrieve DOS visa applications now from what I understand]. The problems in Casablanca might have contributed to the problems in Houston. [BTW, jet lagged entrants are not always at their best].

Don't be surprised if the adjustment interview is not the model of smooth sailing. [I hope I'm wrong].

BTW, if you are so inclinded, an EXCELLENT give-them-hell immigration attorney by the name of Peter Williamson practices in Houston. He learned well from his late father.

Matthew Udall

Hello back at you.
My 30 second comment was in regard to the amount of time they probably have to spend with someone when asking their initial questions. As you know, if they are suspicious about something, they will conduct a thorough interview that can take quite a bit longer.

I’ve not had the benefit of being at the “Consulate� interview nor in reading the materials contained in the brown envelope (or that might have been on the manifests or lookout systems that the officers at the POE examine). Likewise I was not there at the interview at the POE so I don’t know what it was for sure that triggered this secondary inspection.

Did they ever ask him (outside of your presence) if you intended to convert, or did they ask him if he intended to convert to a different religion. Just curious.

Hmm, sounds like the classic “good cop, bad cop� technique. Maybe they chose to have the men be the bad cops to him if they thought he would respond to questions (grilling) from a man instead of from a woman. I really don’t know.

I would have no way of knowing, but if they were doing the good cop, bad cop routine on you and he, that would require more than one officer. Maybe that is how many officers they simply had on hand to spare with this work at that given moment in time. Again, I really would not know.

So are you saying that she stood there, sort of in hiding, to see how you and he would react without being in your presence? Sounds like a technique that would be used to see how a couple really feels. Observing the two of you together under their scrutiny would be a different matter all together, and I believe many researchers will say that when their subject knows they are being observed, they behave differently than when they think they are alone.

It sounds to me that for some reason, they had suspicions that this might be a relationship of convenience meant to help a friend get a greencard. I of course have no reason to think that myself, and I’m glad they let your fiancée into the U.S. I’m also sorry to hear that they were rude.

Noorah101

I'd like to chime in again on this thread and share the fact that I am also in a relationship with a Moslem man. I did convert to Islam long before I met him, of my own choice. I was raised Baptist for a short time but when I traveled to Egypt I knew my heart was in Islam and my travels to Turkey just confirmed it. Like Patty, I don't wear traditional Islamic clothing, although I do dress conservatively and usually wear a scarf in Turkey - more so I'll "fit in" instead of religious reasons.

Sadegh very similar to Patty's husband Abdo in personality and views on women. I haven't seen a domineering side of him yet (we're not married yet though! lol just kidding!). But I DO know Persian men that ARE very domineering - but they're not all Moslem, either.

I think it all depends on how you run your household, no matter what religion it is. It seems many Moslems run a more "traditional" household where the man is the breadwinner and the woman stays home to care for the house and kids. It doesn't mean one is higher or better than the other, just that they understand and accept each other's roles in the marriage. I, for one, prefer that type of household so I fit in with an Islamic-type marriage, and get along with a Moslem man.

It WAS important for Sadegh to find someone who is now or would be willing to become Moslem. The first thing his dad asked him when he told them about me was, "is she Moslem"? Sadegh said "yes" and that was enough for him....I'm one of the family.

I guess I just wanted to say that religion is something we have discussed at length as it pertains to our relationship, marriage, and children, and is an important factor in both of our lives, both individually and as a unit. Now that I think about it, I probably wouldn't be offended if a POE officer asked us this type of question if it were valid in determining how deep our relationship is. But I would appreciate it if he asked politely :-))) And if anyone started lecturing me on how Moslem men treat their women, I would be happy to let them know, politely, that it's not all true :-)

Rene
p.s. call me crazy, but I like thinking I'm his woman and he's my man

llorona

You are quite right Mr. F., I don't think I would still be so upset if they had treated me like a fellow American instead of a potential terrorist threat. They did not introduce themselves; they just pulled me off to the side and started firing off questions. They ignored my questions about how my fiance' was doing; he had bronchitis. When they finished with me, they just walked off without a thank you. I had to stop them and ask how much longer it would take. Their response was "these things take time".

llorona

llorona

Mr. Udall,

Believe it or not, the interview at the Consulate was probably little more than 30 sec. It was so easy that it is laughable now.

My gut instinct tells me that they were in crisis mode and perceived my fiance' as a potential terrorist. Although his bags were searched at Casa and at Schnipnol , the officers would not let him get his bags from the plane. I honestly think that they didn't give a damn about him getting a green card. They wanted to do an assessment of me to see if I were a fellow conspirator.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Matthew Udall Likewise I was not there at the interview at the POE so I don’t know what it was for sure that triggered this secondary inspection..[QUOTE]

No, they never asked him about his religious beliefs. Only mine.

She came out two minutes before him to announce his presence and then stood there to watch us. She made no attempt to hide.

Thank you.
llorona

llorona

I will heed your words of wisdom.

Thank you again,
llorona

rzack

It was easy for Farhan because his fiancee is a 'woman'. They are more strict with men than women. That is why also in certain countries that men more than 16 years old who wanted to apply visa must fill another extra form (which not for women). In that form that have questions related to weapons, any involvement in any kind of activities and so on.

rzack

My roommate’s ex is the second wife in an Islamic marriage. I don’t think it is a legal marriage and I don’t even think the Mosk (is that what they call it?).

Its Mosque That is what they call poligamy.

supernav

It works both ways.

I get treated like crap, and interrogated when overseas, when they find out i'm american. Like they're jealous, and think i'm rich, and think i'm better than everyone else. Try visiting certain parts of the world with a US passport -- you'll think this was a walk in the part compared to what americans have to suffer through sometimes.

I don't agree on the being rude part, but you'd be surprised at how many applicants are rude back to them, argue, yell, swear, etc. Especially the isreali's and cubans. The top 2 worst ones.

-= nav =-