Houston POE NIGHTMARE!!!
Dec 30th 2003, 3:38 am
#16
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2003
Location: Texas/Morocco
Posts: 81
Re: Houston POE NIGHTMARE!!!
Actually, they also need a lesson in world geography. They weren't aware that Morocco is close to Spain and were surprised that my fiance' could speak Spanish.
llorona
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Matthew Udall
The officer at the POE might actually be up on world politics (as far as knowing what countries are allies), however that does not excuse their responsibility in doing their job and examining the actual "person" or "individual" presenting themselves for entry.
llorona
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Matthew Udall
The officer at the POE might actually be up on world politics (as far as knowing what countries are allies), however that does not excuse their responsibility in doing their job and examining the actual "person" or "individual" presenting themselves for entry.
Dec 30th 2003, 3:46 am
#17
Isabelle's Mommy
Joined: Feb 2003
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 161
Re: Houston POE NIGHTMARE!!!
When I visited my husband (boyfriend at the time) in England. I got grilled the same way. They called for him over the loud speaker and asked some questions. They took my journal and read my entries. I only had 1 entry, it was a new journal. They are just being precautious. Unfortunately, we are the good people and we are treated in some ways that we shouldnt at POE's-but they are just doing their job and trying to make it safe for all of us.
Robin
Robin
Dec 30th 2003, 3:47 am
#18
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Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2003
Location: Texas/Morocco
Posts: 81
Re: Houston POE NIGHTMARE!!!
Hola Mr. F,
You are right. We had PREPARED for everything during this long arduous process, but the POE. I thought that it was a given, but . . . You learn something new everyday, and hopefully, my horrible experience will prepare someone else.
llorona
You are right. We had PREPARED for everything during this long arduous process, but the POE. I thought that it was a given, but . . . You learn something new everyday, and hopefully, my horrible experience will prepare someone else.
llorona
Originally posted by Folinskyinla
Hi:
Note your timeline where you put the "smiley" after he got the visa on 12-08-2003.
I don't know where people get the idea that an aiport admission is a "rubber stamp." By design, it is not and never has been.
Some of the biggest flames in the marriage visa discussions have been over what the POE dicks can do. I was once chastised by friend when I complared the POE dicks to the Gestapo -- she felt I had insulted the Gestapo -- say what you will, the Gestapo had rules and they followed those rules. The POE people don't have rules and have been given unlimited power.
Notice where your beloved is NOW -- he is IN the United States. You had the inspection from Hell and he was admitted.
In my book that is a "win" and "wins" are sweet indeed.
Hi:
Note your timeline where you put the "smiley" after he got the visa on 12-08-2003.
I don't know where people get the idea that an aiport admission is a "rubber stamp." By design, it is not and never has been.
Some of the biggest flames in the marriage visa discussions have been over what the POE dicks can do. I was once chastised by friend when I complared the POE dicks to the Gestapo -- she felt I had insulted the Gestapo -- say what you will, the Gestapo had rules and they followed those rules. The POE people don't have rules and have been given unlimited power.
Notice where your beloved is NOW -- he is IN the United States. You had the inspection from Hell and he was admitted.
In my book that is a "win" and "wins" are sweet indeed.
Dec 30th 2003, 4:01 am
#19
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Thread Starter
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Location: Texas/Morocco
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Re: Houston POE NIGHTMARE!!!
If it's their job to conduct a "witch-hunt", then they are doing a helluva job!!!
llorona
[QUOTE]Originally posted by supernav
They're just doing their job.
-=
llorona
[QUOTE]Originally posted by supernav
They're just doing their job.
-=
Dec 30th 2003, 5:30 am
#20
Account Closed
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 16,266
Re: Houston POE NIGHTMARE!!!
Originally posted by llorona
Hola Mr. F,
You are right. We had PREPARED for everything during this long arduous process, but the POE. I thought that it was a given, but . . . You learn something new everyday, and hopefully, my horrible experience will prepare someone else.
llorona
Hola Mr. F,
You are right. We had PREPARED for everything during this long arduous process, but the POE. I thought that it was a given, but . . . You learn something new everyday, and hopefully, my horrible experience will prepare someone else.
llorona
I remember a lunch where about 8 of us immigration lawyer types were eating in the cafeteria in the Los Angeles Federal Building -- and we got to exchanging Ben Gurion Airport stories. Nothing fazes a person after running that gauntlet will never be bothered by airport security again.
Dec 30th 2003, 10:01 am
#21
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Oct 2003
Location: Phoenix AZ
Posts: 2,345
Re: Houston POE NIGHTMARE!!!
Originally posted by llorona
Good Evening,
My fiance' had a horrible POE experience at Bush airport in Houston. I understand the security concerns this past week, but they overstepped their boundaries. We are both still upset. They only treated him in this manner because he is Muslim. I think that after months of security checks by the FBI and Consulate and only God knows who else that they should have just rubber stamped him through.
Here are the facts:
1. He was detained for 4 hours.
2. They questioned him about our relationship in detail.
3. They asked him about personal photos.
4. They questioned his educational background.
5. They asked him about what job he would get here.
6. He was fingerprinted and photographed.
7. They read personal emails from me.
After about 2 hours grilling him, they (male and female immigration officers) called me on my cell phone and came out and questioned me for about 30 minutes. They were both the rudest people I have ever meet!!!
1. Do you know this person?
2. Do you know his religion?
3. What is your job? Where do you work?
4. How long have you been employed?
5. Where do you live?
6. How much money does he have on him?
7. Are you aware that people like this come to the States to get a job? (Basically implying that I was a stupid American woman who needed the protection of Big Brother Government!!!)
8. How many times have you been to Morocco? How long did you stay each time?
9. Where did you stay? (I got a lecture here about the social conditions of Muslim countries after my response.)
10. Who paid for everything when you were in Morocco?
11. How do your sisters feel about this marriage?
12. When are you getting married?
13. How did your family feel about this marriage?
14. How does his family feel about this marriage?
15. Does he have any brothers or sisters?
16. What job did he have in Morocco?
17. How did you meet?
18. How long have you known each other?
19. How much money does he have in the bank?
TWO QUESTIONS FROM THE FEMALE OFFICER THAT REALLY PISSED ME OFF:
1. Do you plan on CONVERTING to Islam?
2. Who PAID for your engagement ring?
Also after they finally RELEASED him, the female officer came to the door to see how we would greet each other. I am still LIVID with anger as I write this. Their behavior was unacceptable and I will be writing a letter of protest.
What a Wonderful Welcome to the good 'ole USA!!!
llorona
Good Evening,
My fiance' had a horrible POE experience at Bush airport in Houston. I understand the security concerns this past week, but they overstepped their boundaries. We are both still upset. They only treated him in this manner because he is Muslim. I think that after months of security checks by the FBI and Consulate and only God knows who else that they should have just rubber stamped him through.
Here are the facts:
1. He was detained for 4 hours.
2. They questioned him about our relationship in detail.
3. They asked him about personal photos.
4. They questioned his educational background.
5. They asked him about what job he would get here.
6. He was fingerprinted and photographed.
7. They read personal emails from me.
After about 2 hours grilling him, they (male and female immigration officers) called me on my cell phone and came out and questioned me for about 30 minutes. They were both the rudest people I have ever meet!!!
1. Do you know this person?
2. Do you know his religion?
3. What is your job? Where do you work?
4. How long have you been employed?
5. Where do you live?
6. How much money does he have on him?
7. Are you aware that people like this come to the States to get a job? (Basically implying that I was a stupid American woman who needed the protection of Big Brother Government!!!)
8. How many times have you been to Morocco? How long did you stay each time?
9. Where did you stay? (I got a lecture here about the social conditions of Muslim countries after my response.)
10. Who paid for everything when you were in Morocco?
11. How do your sisters feel about this marriage?
12. When are you getting married?
13. How did your family feel about this marriage?
14. How does his family feel about this marriage?
15. Does he have any brothers or sisters?
16. What job did he have in Morocco?
17. How did you meet?
18. How long have you known each other?
19. How much money does he have in the bank?
TWO QUESTIONS FROM THE FEMALE OFFICER THAT REALLY PISSED ME OFF:
1. Do you plan on CONVERTING to Islam?
2. Who PAID for your engagement ring?
Also after they finally RELEASED him, the female officer came to the door to see how we would greet each other. I am still LIVID with anger as I write this. Their behavior was unacceptable and I will be writing a letter of protest.
What a Wonderful Welcome to the good 'ole USA!!!
llorona
I hope he got the officers names, for a complaint letter. What a F** assholes, to treat him (and you) in this manner. They obviously have no sence of respect for anyone.
They think they are God, with all the power they have. But nobody has the right to treat a "human" this way. If I were you, I'd complain, and not let this pass by.
Dec 30th 2003, 11:18 am
#22
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,816
Re: Houston POE NIGHTMARE!!!
I'm sorry to hear of your horrible experience. Like it's not bad enough that you had to go through extra checks before he got here! At least it's over with now, and I hope it hasn't soured his impression of the US.
Kate. xxxxx
Kate. xxxxx
Dec 30th 2003, 1:38 pm
#23
WTF?
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: Homeostasis
Posts: 79,367
Re: Houston POE NIGHTMARE!!!
Originally posted by supernav
was it necessary due to 9/11, and the TONS of fraud commied by others, and the nature of the area that he came from, and the protction of our country from evil people that might *slip* through?
-= nav =-
was it necessary due to 9/11, and the TONS of fraud commied by others, and the nature of the area that he came from, and the protction of our country from evil people that might *slip* through?
-= nav =-
2. None of the 9-11 terrorists gained entrance through Morocco.
3. None of the 9-11 terrorists were here on fiance visas.
Dec 30th 2003, 1:53 pm
#24
Maño-Americano
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: In the heart of the Ozarks
Posts: 10,216
Re: Houston POE NIGHTMARE!!!
After Cathy's denial of entry nightmare last year, and reading of horror stories like this one one obvious fact arises:
Some basic human respect is lacking in many (NOT all) POE officers. That they must do their job, interrogate potential entrants to the US and ferret out imposters.... fine. But it is possible to do that with respect for the person in front of them.
Those power hungry, gleeful agents who are on some kind of power trip only create resentment and hatred for the US.... and I think we have enough of that already around the world.
Some basic human respect is lacking in many (NOT all) POE officers. That they must do their job, interrogate potential entrants to the US and ferret out imposters.... fine. But it is possible to do that with respect for the person in front of them.
Those power hungry, gleeful agents who are on some kind of power trip only create resentment and hatred for the US.... and I think we have enough of that already around the world.
Dec 30th 2003, 2:00 pm
#25
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2003
Location: Santa Fe, NM from Dublin, Ireland
Posts: 502
Re: Houston POE NIGHTMARE!!!
Llorona, I'm so sorry to hear about this. That's really awful, and sounds so racist.
It's stories like these that make my husband feel wary about our move to the US. He thinks plainclothes immigration officers will be following him around Santa Fe, watching his every move.
In contrast, I just went through passport control here in Ireland after a visit to the UK. I held open my passport to the page with my 5-year Irish stamp (which I received in one afternoon, as the wife of an Irish citizen). The officer smiled, said "Thanks" and waved me through. I felt so welcomed.
I think the saddest part is that after the hard work and wait, and your fiance choosing America as his new home, there should have been a nice, warm welcome. I know I'm an idealist; oh well.
It's stories like these that make my husband feel wary about our move to the US. He thinks plainclothes immigration officers will be following him around Santa Fe, watching his every move.
In contrast, I just went through passport control here in Ireland after a visit to the UK. I held open my passport to the page with my 5-year Irish stamp (which I received in one afternoon, as the wife of an Irish citizen). The officer smiled, said "Thanks" and waved me through. I felt so welcomed.
I think the saddest part is that after the hard work and wait, and your fiance choosing America as his new home, there should have been a nice, warm welcome. I know I'm an idealist; oh well.
Dec 30th 2003, 2:00 pm
#26
WTF?
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: Homeostasis
Posts: 79,367
Re: Houston POE NIGHTMARE!!!
Hi Matt,
Thank you, I did have a nice holiday. It's much too warm here though, it didn't feel like Christmas. My sister and her husband went to Ohio to visit his family and had a beautiful white Chistmas. I hope Texas gets a little bit of the cold this year, otherwise the insects will be horrible again this summer.
I know the POE is another hurdle we'll have to jump. I was very upset when I read llorona's post. I said some bad words and feel better now. I do think the POE officers were stereotyping, but such is life.
Leslie
Thank you, I did have a nice holiday. It's much too warm here though, it didn't feel like Christmas. My sister and her husband went to Ohio to visit his family and had a beautiful white Chistmas. I hope Texas gets a little bit of the cold this year, otherwise the insects will be horrible again this summer.
I know the POE is another hurdle we'll have to jump. I was very upset when I read llorona's post. I said some bad words and feel better now. I do think the POE officers were stereotyping, but such is life.
Leslie
Originally posted by Matthew Udall
Hi Leslie,
I trust you (and most others who participate in the group) had a nice holiday. I know I did although I did leave Utah a day earlier than expected (when returning home to Cal.) in order to get out from under the big storm dumping snow across Utah (I don't have snow tires or chains).
The officer at the POE might actually be up on world politics (as far as knowing what countries are allies), however that does not excuse their responsibility in doing their job and examining the actual "person" or "individual" presenting themselves for entry.
My guess is that you know this too, but are understandably concerned since your Moroccan will be running the POE gauntlet one of these days.
Odds are, he'll be let in (as was the fiancé of the OP in this thread) and I think the odds are he won't be treated exactly the same as the OP's fiancé (these officers are human, some are rude, some have bad days, some are nice, some are more thorough than others, some are prejudiced and some are not).
Well, New Years Day will be here soon. I'm trying to clear up my office of mail and a few assorted jobs before that day as I usually have a few people over to the office to watch the floats in the Rose Parade as they pass by my second story windows overlooking the parade route (I have 3 prime viewing windows).
For me, the parade is no big deal (once you see one giraffe made out of vegetable material, you’ve seen them all) but others who have not seen it before seem to get a kick out of it.
Hi Leslie,
I trust you (and most others who participate in the group) had a nice holiday. I know I did although I did leave Utah a day earlier than expected (when returning home to Cal.) in order to get out from under the big storm dumping snow across Utah (I don't have snow tires or chains).
The officer at the POE might actually be up on world politics (as far as knowing what countries are allies), however that does not excuse their responsibility in doing their job and examining the actual "person" or "individual" presenting themselves for entry.
My guess is that you know this too, but are understandably concerned since your Moroccan will be running the POE gauntlet one of these days.
Odds are, he'll be let in (as was the fiancé of the OP in this thread) and I think the odds are he won't be treated exactly the same as the OP's fiancé (these officers are human, some are rude, some have bad days, some are nice, some are more thorough than others, some are prejudiced and some are not).
Well, New Years Day will be here soon. I'm trying to clear up my office of mail and a few assorted jobs before that day as I usually have a few people over to the office to watch the floats in the Rose Parade as they pass by my second story windows overlooking the parade route (I have 3 prime viewing windows).
For me, the parade is no big deal (once you see one giraffe made out of vegetable material, you’ve seen them all) but others who have not seen it before seem to get a kick out of it.
Dec 30th 2003, 2:06 pm
#27
C.G.D.S
Joined: Nov 2003
Location: Ireland--->London--->Spain--->Rockport, MA
Posts: 3,353
Re: Houston POE NIGHTMARE!!!
Out of interest, what was the nationality of the attackers and what visa did they come in on? I've had no luck googling and am trying to refute what I've been told about one of them coming in on a spousal visa.
Dec 30th 2003, 2:21 pm
#28
Account Closed
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 16,266
Re: Houston POE NIGHTMARE!!!
Originally posted by Noorah101
Hi Ilorona,
I'm so sorry this happened to your fiance. How awful! Sounds like Jewels' Iranian husband's nightmare at his POE where they did a strip search on him and kept him 3 or 4 hours as well. As you said "Welcome to America"
*** sigh ***
Hi Ilorona,
I'm so sorry this happened to your fiance. How awful! Sounds like Jewels' Iranian husband's nightmare at his POE where they did a strip search on him and kept him 3 or 4 hours as well. As you said "Welcome to America"
*** sigh ***
Re-read her post. I don't see anything that indicates that they did anything bad to her fiance. In fact, the ONLY thing that I see that was questionable was the mannerism of the POE people to the OP. She doesn't mention anything about mistreatment of him.
Or am I missing something?
Dec 30th 2003, 2:22 pm
#29
WTF?
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: Homeostasis
Posts: 79,367
Re: Houston POE NIGHTMARE!!!
Originally posted by sibsie
Out of interest, what was the nationality of the attackers and what visa did they come in on? I've had no luck googling and am trying to refute what I've been told about one of them coming in on a spousal visa.
Out of interest, what was the nationality of the attackers and what visa did they come in on? I've had no luck googling and am trying to refute what I've been told about one of them coming in on a spousal visa.
Hi Sibsie,
I used to know the answers but I'm vague on it now. The attackers for the most part were Saudi Arabian. I know some were here on student visas. Others gained entry through Canada and some European countries, Germany comes to mind.
In the months after 9-11 there were some excellent articles in Time and Newsweek that really went into great depth about each one of the the attackers. I will look into this a little more since I am the one that used it in my argument.
Leslie
Dec 30th 2003, 2:25 pm
#30
WTF?
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: Homeostasis
Posts: 79,367
Re: Houston POE NIGHTMARE!!!
Originally posted by Folinskyinla
Hi:
Re-read her post. I don't see anything that indicates that they did anything bad to her fiance. In fact, the ONLY thing that I see that was questionable was the mannerism of the POE people to the OP. She doesn't mention anything about mistreatment of him.
Or am I missing something?
Hi:
Re-read her post. I don't see anything that indicates that they did anything bad to her fiance. In fact, the ONLY thing that I see that was questionable was the mannerism of the POE people to the OP. She doesn't mention anything about mistreatment of him.
Or am I missing something?
I think they mistreated her by asking her if she intended to convert to Islam.
Can you imagine somebody immigrating from Ireland and the POE officers going out to the waiting room and asking the USC if they planned on converting to Catholicism?