airbusfan

yeah better to have uncontrolled immigration from a draw out of a hat than a controlled, streamlined and knowing what skills people are bringing in.


Diversity lottery has nothing to do with America's history of immigration, it was an amnesty for Irish illegals in 80's started by Ted Kennedy. Can you point to what is the historical context of immigration are you on about ?

H-1B is a non-immigrant visa, which funds border security, has minimum wage requirement for the particular job description and also has a $500 "Training fee" which funds research through federal grants.

This is different from an immigrant diversity lottery visa. What is there in Diversity lottery ??

Since H-1B is servitude, why not free these skilled "slaves"? Since nobody wants to increase the number of immigrants, why not use the numbers from the lottery numbers??

How has immigration devasted the blue-collar America? I'd agree if you had said outsourcing, but can't see how immigration affected blue collar workers?

fatbrit

Student visas are creating jobs for the locals, not destroying them.

Family-based immigration is the biggest slice. The sibling one seems a bit odd to me.

fatbrit

The DV program is not uncontrolled. It has both a strict limit and minimum parameters.

If you can't see the parallels between the mass immigration to America at the turn of the century and the DV program, your education on such matters is severely lacking.

All visas (H1b, DV and the rest) are self-funding except refugee admissions (which are paid for by other immigrants).

If you can't see how immigration has devastated blue collar jobs, you either live in a very isolated part of the country or don't get out much.

zerlesen

Looking on the bright side, a severely lacking education makes us preferable as immigrants, right? Less likely to "destroy" jobs, and all that.

airbusfan

Wonder who is lacking in education when all your statements are just broad and vague without any evidence.
Oh yes, you did put out the GAO report which I appreciate, but if you read that report, DHS and USCIS has not concurred with a single of their suggestions.

zerlesen

Let's not go down that road, I'm sure we could all stand to learn a few things.

fatbrit

Statements without a basis of fact appear to be your specialty.

You have so far wrongly claimed or insinuated:
* DV is uncontrolled
* DV entrants are unskilled
* DV entrants claim social security
* H1b uniquely funds other programs
* H1b entrants are the brightest and/or best
* Migration has not had an effect of the pay and conditions of blue collar workers

DHS and USCIS do not make statutory law. That job falls to Congress.

fatbrit

There's always a bright side.

airbusfan

just following on your suit mate ! After all you are the educated one.
Anyway, this bill is going nowhere. Seems like CIR is going to head down the healthcare reform path where all the parties are going to bicker and get a watered down result.
That's it I'm going to Hogwarts

retzie

How? You argued that H-1Bs are hitting white collar workers with the cheap IT labour angle, but I don't see where you mentioned what form of immigration is hitting the blue collar jobs. Do you mean the seasonal worker visas?? Even then, they are non-immigrant.

Ricky_85

An influx of immigrants, coupled with a birthrate higher than Europe and Japan, will enable the US to prosper way more than the others in the next years.

So, with rispect to the Diversity Visa Lottery, this program is helping at least a little the US economy with young workers.

Obviously, I'm not advocating illegal immigration, which is in many ways detrimental to the economy...

fatbrit

Who said you needed a visa to be an immigrant?

helpmeplease123

Exactly. H1Bs don't. The US is essentially handing out green cards to people to claim social security. Since there are no checks about their employment/financial status and so many other visas out there for skilled migrants AND many DV countries are poor, it leads me to believe a large chunk will come over and claim benefits without the skills to find work. Skilled and educated potential immigrants do not apply for the DV lottery.. they get L1s, H1s, O1s etc. I'm not saying that all DV winners will come over and do nothing but if some do, I believe that demonstrates a flawed system.

This is not comparable to history - when mass immigration was occurring in the last centuries there was no Medicaid, social security etc. it was work or starve. No such impetus exists now. I don't think the cultural relevance is necessary now anyway, the US is very diverse in places and remain un-diverse in places that will stay that why regardless of how many immigrants you throw at the country.

All countries should have some form of immigration but most countries focus only on recruiting those that will definitely contribute to their society in some way. Like I said before - it'd be interesting if someone did a study and looked at what DV winners were doing 10 years on...

Haven't read the whole thing but this looks interesting, also has a big piece on how the visa could contribute to terrorism: http://judiciary.house.gov/legacy/93387.PDF

More people equals prosperity? Since when?

scrubbedexpat099

I can see no benefit to the DV..

More importantly there are no votes in it, but there are possibly votes if the visa allocation was used elsewhere.

To a less of an extent also the F4 category.

fatbrit

How exactly do you qualify for social security without paying into the system? Curious minds would love to know! DV entrants are like other PRs -- there's very little you qualify for in terms of government handouts.

The terrorism claim is ridiculous. Because it is an immigrant visa, the level of checks is more stringent than NIVs such as, for example, the H1b.