ukbritguyusa

Hey everyone,

I haven't been on the BritishExpats forum for a while as I have just spent a very enjoyable 3 months travelling around the United States. When I arrived at the POE in Newark, myself and my girlfriend were interogated fairly aggressively (but politely) about what we were doing there, how much money we had, what are jobs were back in the UK. Anyway, we were at the POE talking to immigration for around 15 minutes, but the lady finally stamped our passport with 90 VWP (although she didnt look to happy about it!) and we were on our way! We returned about a week ago, leaving the US on the date we promised.

My question is: I have been invited by friends I met while in the US to go and visit them in Hawaii, where they own a house, at the beginning of October for about a month or so. I am planning on flying from London direct to San Fransisco then on to Hawaii. Will I have any trouble with Immigration as I have just visited the States (although I left before my 90 days) and have only left a month before revisiting? I am thinking Hawaii should be a popular holiday destination and my explanation of visiting friends I met on my last visit should be fairly believable. Also, at which point will I go through Immigration? Will it be in San Fransisco when I change planes? Or will it be in Hawaii? Also, I know the importance of having a return ticket home, having a letter from my employer, letter of invite from my friends, etc.

Any help or comments will be much appreciated.

Thank you.

Ingo Pakleppa - See Web Site For Email

On Mon, 25 Aug 2003 23:08:47 +0000, ukbritguyusa wrote:


    > Hey everyone,
    >
    >
    >
    > I haven't been on the BritishExpats forum for a while as I have just
    > spent a very enjoyable 3 months travelling around the United States.
    > When I arrived at the POE in Newark, myself and my girlfriend were
    > interogated fairly aggressively (but politely) about what we were doing
    > there, how much money we had, what are jobs were back in the UK. Anyway,
    > we were at the POE talking to immigration for around 15 minutes, but the
    > lady finally stamped our passport with 90 VWP (although she didnt look
    > to happy about it!) and we were on our way! We returned about a week
    > ago, leaving the US on the date we promised.
    >
    >
    >
    > My question is: I have been invited by friends I met while in the US to
    > go and visit them in Hawaii, where they own a house, at the beginning of
    > October for about a month or so. I am planning on flying from London
    > direct to San Fransisco then on to Hawaii. Will I have any trouble with
    > Immigration as I have just visited the States (although I left before my
    > 90 days) and have only left a month before revisiting?

Well, there is a rule of thumb that you should only use the 90 days once
in any 12 months. It's not written into the law, though, so a lot depends
on your specific circumstances. Also, if you ask for only two weeks
instead of another 90 days, chances of admission are much better. If you
are travelling alone this time, without your girlfriend, I expect that
chances will also be better.

    > I am thinking Hawaii should be a popular holiday destination and my
    > explanation of visiting friends I met on my last visit should be fairly
    > believable.

That can indeed be helpful. It may be a good idea to have an invitation
letter from your friends, and/or photos that show you guys together.

    > Also, at which point will I go through Immigration? Will it be in San
    > Fransisco when I change planes?

In the USA, it's always the first point of entry into the country. If you
fly nonstop from London to SF, it would indeed be San Francisco.

    > Or will it be in Hawaii? Also, I know the importance of having a return
    > ticket home, having a letter from my employer, letter of invite from my
    > friends, etc.

They are important to carry with you. Do not, however, volunteer them,
only show them if you are asked for more evidence. Being over-prepared can
make you suspicious.

--
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ukbritguyusa

Hey Ingo,

thanks for your replies as always.

I hear everything you are saying. The last thing I thought of is to save any problems at the POE, why dont I just get a ticket for 2 weeks round trip and then change the date later if I need to, for like a month or something? The travel agents I book through let you do this for £25....?

That would be better right?

Ingo Pakleppa - See Web Site For Email

On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 22:25:28 +0000, ukbritguyusa wrote:


    > Hey Ingo,
    >
    > thanks for your replies as always.
    >
    > I hear everything you are saying. The last thing I thought of is to save
    > any problems at the POE, why dont I just get a ticket for 2 weeks round
    > trip and then change the date later if I need to, for like a month or
    > something? The travel agents I book through let you do this for
    > £25....?
    >
    > That would be better right?

Shouldn't make a difference. If anything, it could make matters worse if
the officer finds other evidence that indicates your intent to change the
ticket.

--
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everybody to seek competent legal counsel rather than relying on usenet
newsgroups.

Please support H.R. 539, H.R. 832 and S. 1510. More information at
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ukbritguyusa

What evidence would they find?

I am just going with a normal suitcase and maybe a letter of invite from the people I am staying with?

I am just thinking it would avoid more questions if I Was blatantly going for a holiday, not a long stay of 2 months which will provoke more questions - like how am I financing myself, howcome your job lets you have this much time off, etc, etc....

Thoughts?

Ingo Pakleppa - See Web Site For Email

On Wed, 27 Aug 2003 08:39:46 +0000, ukbritguyusa wrote:

    > What evidence would they find?

Could you quote back what this refers to? It's kind of difficult to figure
out which post you are responding to (you are posting through
britishexpats, right? Unfortunately, they lose the context of posts in
lengthier threads such as this one. Otherwise, it's a great service they
provide, though). I think you are refering to evidence that you are
looking for a job, right? It could be things such as a couple of resumes,
a business suit for interviews, business cards of hiring managers, an
amount of clothes inconsistent with the claim to only come for a short
trip, etc.

    > I am just going with a normal suitcase and maybe a letter of invite from
    > the people I am staying with?



    > I am just thinking it would avoid more questions if I Was blatantly
    > going for a holiday, not a long stay of 2 months which will provoke more
    > questions - like how am I financing myself, howcome your job lets you
    > have this much time off, etc, etc....

This is indeed a kind of question. However, lying about material facts is
immigration fraud and can get you deported and banned for life. In this
context, a material fact is one that either would affect the officer's
decision whether or not to admit you, or would cause him to investigate
further if he knew the true facts. So if you tell him you plan to stay for
two weeks while in reality planning to stay for two months, you are lying.
Since you admittedly do that in order to avoid being questioned about you
finances, job, vacation time etc., the lie prevented him from further
investigating you. A pretty clear-cut case of immigration fraud (although
I don't think there really is such a thing as a clear-cut case!)

--
Remember, I am strictly a layperson without any legal training. I encourage
everybody to seek competent legal counsel rather than relying on usenet
newsgroups.

Please support H.R. 539, H.R. 832 and S. 1510. More information at
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ralgex

Hi,

Im interested in this as it is a similar situation to one i willl find myself in when i want to return to the states on a second vwp after being back in the uk for 2months. My first vwp trip lasted 80 days.

I found a FAQ on the usa embassy site about how many times you can use the vwp..... Here was the answer....

There is no limit to the number of times you may travel visa free under the Visa Waiver Program in any given period. There is also no minimum period of time you are required to remain outside the U.S. before reapplying for admission. However, if you are a frequent traveler to the United States you should be sure to carry with you for presentation to U.S. immigration evidence of your residence abroad to which you intend returning at the end of your visit together with evidence of funds sufficient for your support while in the United States. If the oficer of the BCIS is not convinced that you are a bona visitor for business or tourism, you can be denied entry.


So i figure if you have a letter from an employer to the effect that you will be starting back at work, that should be sufficient? Im hoping. I too am in a predicament of do i say im staying for a couple of months or a couple of weeks?? But, i think Ingo is right and honesty has to be the best way. I think i will go for the 2 month answer. We shall see if i get through.!!

ukbritguyusa

Good to hear someone is in the same situation!

I am going to get a letter from my employer stating I will be returning and also a letter of invite from my friend who I am going to visit. Hopefully this shall be sufficient - I think I am getting quite good at talking to the immigration officers now, I have done it so many times!

Also, with regard to the question of how long I will stay for, I will say I am staying for a month (as my return ticket will say). This will be the truth at this time. What I won't say is that I may stay longer depending on how the trip goes - whats the point? I don't even know myself yet. I am able to change my outbound ticket to any date I want, which is why I got that specific ticket. As long as I come back before my 90 days are up and I am not doing anything illegal, I don't see the problem.

Any views....?

Ingo Pakleppa - See Web Site For Email

Legally, an entirely accurate answer. The actual type of evidence that you
need would vary very much with your situation. The more trips you make,
and the longer they are, the more evidence you would need. And it is
entirely possible that no amount of evidence will satisfy an officer.

On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 17:03:25 +0000, ralgex wrote:

    > There is no limit to the number of times you may travel visa free under
    > the Visa Waiver Program in any given period. There is also no minimum
    > period of time you are required to remain outside the U.S. before
    > reapplying for admission. However, if you are a frequent traveler to the
    > United States you should be sure to carry with you for presentation to
    > U.S. immigration evidence of your residence abroad to which you intend
    > returning at the end of your visit together with evidence of funds
    > sufficient for your support while in the United States. If the oficer of
    > the BCIS is not convinced that you are a bona visitor for business or
    > tourism, you can be denied entry.

--
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everybody to seek competent legal counsel rather than relying on usenet
newsgroups.

Please support H.R. 539, H.R. 832 and S. 1510. More information at
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Ingo Pakleppa - See Web Site For Email

The changeability of the ticket may actually work against you, depending
on the actual terms. The VWP requires that you travel on a non-refundable
ticket. If it is too easy to change and doesn't impose something like a
30-day limit, then the ticket may count as a refundable one. It would be
at the officer's discretion (well, at least in practical terms, since
there is no appeal).

On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 19:23:45 +0000, ukbritguyusa wrote:

    > Also, with regard to the question of how long I will stay for, I will
    > say I am staying for a month (as my return ticket will say). This will
    > be the truth at this time. What I won't say is that I may stay longer
    > depending on how the trip goes - whats the point? I don't even know
    > myself yet. I am able to change my outbound ticket to any date I want,
    > which is why I got that specific ticket. As long as I come back before
    > my 90 days are up and I am not doing anything illegal, I don't see the
    > problem.

--
Remember, I am strictly a layperson without any legal training. I encourage
everybody to seek competent legal counsel rather than relying on usenet
newsgroups.

Please support H.R. 539, H.R. 832 and S. 1510. More information at
http://www.kkeane.com/lobbyspousal-faq.shtml

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ralgex

Yes it is good to hear someone in the same situation although i can imagine there are hundreds of us. I think i may go the same route as you and say i shall stay for a month. The only concern i have of this is that i have heard they can limit your 90 days to a shorter time and make a note on your passport. I dont know how accurate this is but i wouldnt want to give cause for them to limit my 90 day visa.
Paranoia has set in. I read an awful story the other day about a girl trying to get through and how she got turned away.
Anyhow, please keep me updated on your situation and i will do the same. When do you travel back to the US? Will you have access to British expats? Maybe you could write me with your experience!!?? GOOD LUCK.

ukbritguyusa

Hey,

I think that if you have some documentation with you like letter from employer, letter of invite from friends/family and you have a good explanation as to why you are there, I think it should be fine.

When I flew into Newark in May, the officer at the POE gave me a real hard time, asking me lots of questions about why I was there, what I did for a job back home, how much money I had, etc. But even through all of that, she didn't ask to see any of the letters I had bought with me. Remember not to offer up any documentation unless asked as it may seem like you have a guilty concious. She finally stamped my passport and I was on my way. I have been to the States for a weekend and I have been for 3 months. They give me a hard time regardless of the length of time I go!! I feel like saying to them: "I just can't win with you guys can I...?!" But, of course, I dont.

I haven't heard anything about them limiting the time you can stay - can anyone shed light on this? I thought that you were either in or out? Maybe not.

Also, where did you read about the girl who got turned away? Which airport was it? What were her circumstances? Could she prove she had reason to go back to her home country? Which country was she from? I think that if you have a good and legal reason to enter the states, have thought ahead and have some proof with you (in way of documentation) and just keep calm and tell the truth, they will have no reason not to let you in. Thats my theory anyway!!!!

I travel to Hawaii at the end of September. I should have internet access so I will let you know how it goes, although if I dont get in I may be so depressed that I may not ever come on here again!!! Lets hope that doesnt happen.

Ingo Pakleppa - See Web Site For Email

On Sun, 07 Sep 2003 21:24:23 +0000, ukbritguyusa wrote:


    > Hey,
    >
    > I think that if you have some documentation with you like letter from
    > employer, letter of invite from friends/family and you have a good
    > explanation as to why you are there, I think it should be fine.
    >
    > When I flew into Newark in May, the officer at the POE gave me a real
    > hard time, asking me lots of questions about why I was there, what I did
    > for a job back home, how much money I had, etc. But even through all of
    > that, she didn't ask to see any of the letters I had bought with me.
    > Remember not to offer up any documentation unless asked as it may seem
    > like you have a guilty concious. She finally stamped my passport and I
    > was on my way. I have been to the States for a weekend and I have been
    > for 3 months. They give me a hard time regardless of the length of time
    > I go!! I feel like saying to them: "I just can't win with you guys can
    > I...?!" But, of course, I dont.

Remember that their job is fundamentally law enforcement. That is, they
are cops, and they will interrogate anybody suspicious.

    > I haven't heard anything about them limiting the time you can stay - can
    > anyone shed light on this? I thought that you were either in or out?
    > Maybe not.

The one time when I was interrogated, they actually did admit me, but only
for five weeks instead of the usual six months on B-2.

--
Remember, I am strictly a layperson without any legal training. I encourage
everybody to seek competent legal counsel rather than relying on usenet
newsgroups.

Please support H.R. 539, H.R. 832 and S. 1510. More information at
http://www.kkeane.com/lobbyspousal-faq.shtml

Please visit my new FAQ at http://www.kkeane.com (always under construction)

My email address in usenet posts is now invalid for spam protection. See
my Web site for information on how to contact me.

Now with new photos! Please feel free to enjoy some of my photographs at my
new Web site http://www.ingopakleppa.com ! Comments are welcome.

ralgex

Hello, i wrote back last week and evry time i write a long reply it just takes me back to the log in screen. So, ill try again.......

The horror story was entitled 'entering america' or something similar. The girl barbara was from Germany and i forget the entry point. Im scared to read it again!! I guess according to Ingo's reply, they can limit your stay - i guess it is up to the disgression of the officer at the time. I do know how you feel though about the thought of not getting in. Im sure it will be fine. In a way this chat site makes me worse as you read peoples unfortuate stories and as usual.... people always publicise the bad, hardly ever the good.

Try and keep in touch though when you are back in Hawaii and let me know how you get on. I will do the same. Good luck as always!!