GC holder (hasn't been in the US for 2 years) Flying via Dublin?
 

Hey guys,

First of all I am sorry since I am not a British Expat :) I'm actually French (hopefully not too many french haters in this forum lol) but it is the first website and forum where I seem to find answers to some questions I have.

So here is my short story: I won the green card at the lottery a few years ago, I had to move to the US within 6 months (requirement) and I lived there for 2 years. After 2 years of hard work (2 jobs), I just could not do it anymore and decided to go back to France to sort out a few things. I then decided to go study in Australia so that I could get a real education and a real job. Problem is I did not really know about re entry permit and now I want to move back to the US (after 2 years). I contacted an immigration lawyer and she told me my best chance was to fly to the US and hope for the best (meaning, hope that the immigration officer wouldnt be too harsh and let me keep my green card).

i try to stay optimistic but Im prepared (even though im dreading it) to the fact that I might get my green card revoked.

I read about flying via Dublin which means that, if I were denied entry to the US, at least I wouldnt have to use all my savings to pay for the flight back home. But does anyone know if there is an us immigration judge there? Because I know that if I fly to the US and the immigration officer decides to not let me in the country, i can at least ask to appear in front of an immigration judge to plead my case. But what if I get denied entry in Dublin?

And has anyone ever experienced a situation like this (going back to the states without re entry permit after a couple of years).

For those of you who think I was stupid to "waste" a green card, feel free not to comment (i read those kind of comments on another forum and it is definitely not constructive) lol

Thanks for everyone who will read this and reply, I appreciate your help and advice.

Cheers :)

Re: GC holder (hasn't been in the US for 2 years) Flying via Dublin?
 

You are unlikely to be denied entry. You may get sent to secondary and pressure be applied on you to sign a form surrendering your GC. If you refuse to do this you are likely to be paroled into the US to go before an immigration judge.

Only an IJ can make the determination that you have abandoned your status.

Re: GC holder (hasn't been in the US for 2 years) Flying via Dublin?
 

I would have suggested the same as your lawyer. Here's a few things you need to know: 1) if you have ever had a claim to permanent resident status (PR = green card) you have the right to appear before an Immigration Judge (IJ) who will make the final determination of whether or not you have abandoned your status as a PR; 2) the CBP officer at the port of entry does not have the authority to revoke your status - only an IJ can do that; 3) you are a PR and you will stay a PR until such time as an IJ says you're not.

Now, that all said - the CBP officer does have the authority to detain you until such time as you appear before an IJ, but it's far more likely that you'll be paroled into the US pending the hearing.


I don't believe there is, no.


Several have, yes. You might also want to research the SB-1 visa.

Good luck to you.

Ian

Re: GC holder (hasn't been in the US for 2 years) Flying via Dublin?
 

You've had two good answers there - I just want to add that I think it would be better to go direct to USA (i.e. NOT via Dublin). Like others have said you may well be paroled in, and once in the USA you have more rights, and more access to experienced lawyers etc.

Now for a bit of a reality check (feel free to ignore). You struggled the first time and went off and did something else. If you want to go and fight for your LPR status it will probably take time, money, and effort. Are you ready to do that or will you just quit again? If you are going to quit - why bother spend the time and money on it? If a return flight home will wipe out your savings it is unlikely you ca afford to pay a good lawyer to sort things out for you. Not looking to be insulting - just trying to make you think carefully how committed you are...

Bonne chance!

Re: GC holder (hasn't been in the US for 2 years) Flying via Dublin?
 

Make sure to take evidence of your life in the US, Property, Car, Savings etc etc.

Re: GC holder (hasn't been in the US for 2 years) Flying via Dublin?
 

It would be interesting to know if U.S. federal tax returns have been filed. That is an obligation of all Lawful Permanent Residents and may also help support a claim that LPR has not been abandoned.

Re: GC holder (hasn't been in the US for 2 years) Flying via Dublin?
 

We've had people on BE that were out of the US for several years and re-entered the US without problems. Since we don't know what are the chances of being pulled into secondary, there may not be a need for an immigration lawyer. Even if he is paroled into the US, he then probably has a year or more to decide whether he wants to relinquish his green card and leave or go before an IJ.

Re: GC holder (hasn't been in the US for 2 years) Flying via Dublin?
 

Back filing would be a good idea I guess if he has not.

Re: GC holder (hasn't been in the US for 2 years) Flying via Dublin?
 

That's a bit if a characterisation of the process. He doesn't decide by himself. If he is paroled, he would likely be ordered to appear in court at the same time. Appearing is not optional. The IJ isn't only deciding whether the person keeps the LPR status. The court is deciding if the person is admissible as a permanent resident or removable.

If someone is setup to go before the IJ, it would be important for them to attend. If someone were to relinquish and the court wasn't aware and onboard, then the person could be removed in absentia and barred for 5 years or longer, even as a visitor. The person may be allowed to withdraw their application for admission and do an I-407, but that is not guaranteed especially if there are false statements at the border made during the attempt to get back in.

Re: GC holder (hasn't been in the US for 2 years) Flying via Dublin?
 

I don't feel insulted do not worry. I appreciate any comment. I did struggle the first time, that is true but the main thing is I was tired of having to work in retail or hospitality as I this is not what i wanted to do with my life. thats why i decided to leave and then go back to school to have a diploma in a field that i really wanted to work in. I now have a diploma, started connecting people on Linkedin who are in the industry i want to work in and know I can get a "real" job

I know I might struggle for the first few months as going back to the US is so sudden but I'm willing to take that risk

I'm already paying a lawyer so hopefully if I am in trouble, she will help me out lol

Re: GC holder (hasn't been in the US for 2 years) Flying via Dublin?
 

I am a "she" lol I did file taxes for the first year i was away, not the second year since as I had not been in the US, i did not see the point (mistake, I know) but it was only for last year and my lawyer told me it was not too late to do it :)

Re: GC holder (hasn't been in the US for 2 years) Flying via Dublin?
 

And one more question guys: a friend recommended that i don't arrive in JFK because immigration officers might be more strict than other airports That was confirmed by my lawyer

What do you think? If i can keep my green card, Im gonna be living in NYC so I don't see the point of arriving in LA or Seattle or somewhere far away from NYC lol Would Newark be better?

Re: GC holder (hasn't been in the US for 2 years) Flying via Dublin?
 

I don't agree with that advice - if anything a larger airport may mean a more cursory inspection due to the large volume of arrivals.

Re: GC holder (hasn't been in the US for 2 years) Flying via Dublin?
 

I suggest it's time to get a new friend.


Your lawyer is incorrect. You want to arrive at a large airport that gets a lot of immigrant traffic. You want the officers to actually know what they're doing and to have experience with a variety of situations.

Ian

Re: GC holder (hasn't been in the US for 2 years) Flying via Dublin?
 

now I have a dilemma
Newark or JFk? lol

Re: GC holder (hasn't been in the US for 2 years) Flying via Dublin?
 

JFK

Re: GC holder (hasn't been in the US for 2 years) Flying via Dublin?
 

For immigration purposes...it doesn't matter.

Rene

Re: GC holder (hasn't been in the US for 2 years) Flying via Dublin?
 

Thank you guys!

Re: GC holder (hasn't been in the US for 2 years) Flying via Dublin?
 

Newark is a shithole.

Re: GC holder (hasn't been in the US for 2 years) Flying via Dublin?
 

lol really? whats wrong with it?

Re: GC holder (hasn't been in the US for 2 years) Flying via Dublin?
 

Well for starters it's not even in the same state as New York City ;) but its also something of a trek to get there - the most effective route is the train into Penn station but that isn't easy when carrying any luggage.

Re: GC holder (hasn't been in the US for 2 years) Flying via Dublin?
 

I'd rather fly into Newark than JFK.
In my opinion, it is easier to get from Newark to Manhattan than JFK to Manhattan. Also there are more connecting flights from Newark than JFK.

Re: GC holder (hasn't been in the US for 2 years) Flying via Dublin?
 

In mine too
There's a direct express train into NYC. Way easier than JFK.

Re: GC holder (hasn't been in the US for 2 years) Flying via Dublin?
 

Herein lies the answer: it really depends on your final destination. I was always heading to Brooklyn, so LGA and JFK were the obvious choices.

Re: GC holder (hasn't been in the US for 2 years) Flying via Dublin?
 

I'd join in recommending EWR over JFK as an airport.

On the legal front, legal consultation is highly recommended. Please note that most immigration lawyers are not all that conversant in "abandonment" law. In your consultation [which I would recommend avoiding "free" ones], you may want to inquire if the lawyer has tried at least one abandoment case.

The two "mother" cases are Matter of Kane and Matter of Huang.

When I was in practice, I would read these cases over whenever I had an abandoment case and every time I had a "how did I miss that" reaction.

Note that these cases tend to be quite fact specific. You indicate facts that might very well be helpful.

Note that I am semi-retired and do not take cases.

Good luck.

Re: GC holder (hasn't been in the US for 2 years) Flying via Dublin?
 

Semi?

So what do you do?

I know Walmart have cut their greeters.

Re: GC holder (hasn't been in the US for 2 years) Flying via Dublin?
 

Thank you. I contacted an immigration lawyer and had a consultation with her (not free). I had, before consulting her, made an appointment at the american embassy for a returning resident visa interview and she told me to cancel it right away, that I would lose my green card without a doubt cause I did not qualify for that kind of visa. She advised me to just take a risk and fly to the US and hope that the immigration officer would be nice enough to let me keep my green card.. And that I should fill out a re entry permit that she would send on my arrival in the US. I am still confused about this since I would not want the immigration officer to be "so you're moving back to the states but you are sending a re entry permit application which people use when they want to leave temporarily the usa" but she told me she would explain to me the reason why its good to do that (still waiting).

Would you happen to know about Dublin's pre clearance rules? From what I read, if a permanent resident arrives in the US and the immigration officer wants to revoke their green card, the permanent resident can still ask to appear in front an immigration judge. but what about Dublin? If you get denied, do you also have that possibility?

Re: GC holder (hasn't been in the US for 2 years) Flying via Dublin?
 

I suggest you ask someone else, because she's an idiot. Applying for the SB-1 is the correct and appropriate course of action if you have a green card and are looking to re-establish yourself in the US. Whether you want to file an SB-1 is up to you - indeed, I suggest you read the instructions and see if you qualify (you've already done that, right?)... but her comment is totally stupid.


She really is an idiot. You must apply for a re-entry permit before you leave the US.


The officer does not have the authority to revoke your green card. I'm pretty sure I already explained that to you.


You wouldn't be asking permission... you have the right to appear before an IJ. The officer can't deny you that right! The officer might think he can... but he can't. He might think he can force you to relinquish your green card... but he can't. He might push you to sign form I-407 (as always... Google is your friend)... but you are not obligated to sign it and, indeed, should not sign it no matter how much you might feel pressured into doing so.


Probably not, insofar as there aren't any IJ's outside the US... at least, not that I know of.

Ian

Re: GC holder (hasn't been in the US for 2 years) Flying via Dublin?
 

Actually I dont think she is, not on that point anyway. I really do not qualify for a returning resident visa. To qualify, I should prove that my protracted stay abroad was caused by reasons beyond your control and for which you were not responsible. (leaving the usa cause i needed a short break and then decided to go study abroad is definitely not something "beyond my control"


What she meant (and I still need to ask her questions about that) is that i'll fill it out and it will just show (if im being asked) the POE officer that I will never again leave the usa without notifying the department of immigration. hopefully thats she meant lol


"The officer does not have the authority to revoke your green card. I'm pretty sure I already explained that to you."

I did understand that but even though he cannot revoke it, from what I understood, he's the one who gets to decide if im denied entry, or if i need to further explain my situation to a supervisor, so he still have pretty much a lot of power should I have to experience a bad immigration process.


"You wouldn't be asking permission... you have the right to appear before an IJ. The officer can't deny you that right! The officer might think he can... but he can't. He might think he can force you to relinquish your green card... but he can't. He might push you to sign form I-407 (as always... Google is your friend)... but you are not obligated to sign it and, indeed, should not sign it no matter how much you might feel pressured into doing so."

That's definitely something I need to be prepared for. Immigration processes freak me out, no matter the country and even though I am an honest person and have nothing to hide. and american immigration officers are pretty much very intimidating (thats their job) so I have to get ready to be strong.



Thank you for your message

Re: GC holder (hasn't been in the US for 2 years) Flying via Dublin?
 

IF the CBP decides to put you before an IJ, the very strong likely hood is that you will be paroled entry, unless you are otherwise inadmissible. The IJ will then decide whether you have abandoned your LPR status or not.

No, it's not. You're seriously going to notify USCIS everytime you leave the United States? Of course not.

Re: GC holder (hasn't been in the US for 2 years) Flying via Dublin?
 

No, the CBP officer at the airport can either admit you as an LPR or refer you to an Immigration Judge but cannot outright deny entry. CBP can theoretically detain you while you await your hearing with the IJ but rarely do so.

Also, it reads like you think the IJ supervises CBP, but this is incorrect. The IJ is part of the Dept of Justice, unlike CBP (Dept of Homeland Security).

I would take Mr Folinsky's advice and find a lawyer who has tried an abandonment case.

Dublin, as others have told you, is not a good idea, because they can deny you boarding the plane.

Re: GC holder (hasn't been in the US for 2 years) Flying via Dublin?
 

I would tend to agree with that aspect of Dublin. It's not a US port of entry per se. For example, if someone were to seek asylum at a port of entry, they'd get to see a judge unless they were a national security risk. If the same person tried it at Dublin, the US officials would likely laugh them out of the building.

Re: GC holder (hasn't been in the US for 2 years) Flying via Dublin?
 

You are a PR until an IJ says you aren't... the CBP officer can't simply deny you entry.


No, he doesn't. He doesn't have power, he has authority - there's a difference. But, regardless of any authority he has, he still has to abide by the law. Whatever power you think he has over you, it's because you're willing to give it to him.

Ian

Re: GC holder (hasn't been in the US for 2 years) Flying via Dublin?
 

Re: GC holder (hasn't been in the US for 2 years) Flying via Dublin?
 

Re: GC holder (hasn't been in the US for 2 years) Flying via Dublin?
 

Actually, I am not sure that filing an SB-1 would be such a good idea. Anecdotally, the SB-1 process is very difficult and most cases are refused.

The idea of going to the U.S. with green card, asking for admission, and taking steps from there, is not risk free but may be a better answer in the circumstances. All depends on the original poster's circumstances. For example, what's the cost to the original poster of remaining in the U.S. for months and ultimately having to leave if ordered to do so by an Immigration Judge. The risk is not zero, although is probably lower than the risk of having an SB-1 refused. Even the best lawyer can only advise in terms of probabilities, and ensure that the best evidence is provided to support the case.

I would strongly recommend filing all outstanding U.S. federal tax returns immediately. Return for calendar year 2013 can wait for now and if necessary, the deadline can be extended by filing form 4868. But missing years since 2010 should be caught up. Also understand any U.S. information reporting requirements, eg FBAR on non-U.S. bank accounts if worth over $10,000.

As as regards using CBP in Dublin. Again, validate with immigration attorney, but I would concur that using a pre-clearance station is not necessarily a good idea. There is no Immigration Judge in Dublin since it's not U.S. territory and while CBP officers there might parole a person in for a hearing, they might not have to (discuss with attorney). It would certainly be easier for them to deny entry without recourse. Whereas if someone is on U.S. territory, they have to allow a hearing with an Immigration Judge. Not clear if they could order the person detained - another excellent question for an immigration attorney.

Re: GC holder (hasn't been in the US for 2 years) Flying via Dublin?
 

Concur. Detaining for abandonment alone is unheard of.

Re: GC holder (hasn't been in the US for 2 years) Flying via Dublin?
 

So let's say the worst scenario actually happens lol and I have to appear in front of an immigration judge. How early could I see on? is it usually pretty soon after arriving in the US and can it be months?? and would be i allowed to work while waiting for it? Im sorry I know you are not a lawyer, Ill be asking my lawyer anyway but you might already have an answer ;)

Re: GC holder (hasn't been in the US for 2 years) Flying via Dublin?
 

The process could take years to resolve. The first hearing may be scheduled within a month or two, but subsequent hearings could be a year apart depending on which court. A lot of people end up opting to just surrender the status at the first hearing once they find out how long and expensive the process is. Of course some of those people may have intended to fight for the status and continue to not reside in the US.

The court would have to find that the person planned the trip foreign to be temporary and to then return to their US residence. Similar to what they'd have to show to get the returning resident visa.

They'd issue a lawful permanent resident document valid for work only, but not for normal travel. You can travel, but would likely be paroled at each entry until your next court date.

Re: GC holder (hasn't been in the US for 2 years) Flying via Dublin?
 

Oh my god! How naive was I to think it just a quick thing lol Thank you so much for your answer, Im a little bit more depressed now but at least I know what to expect and I can get prepared and figure out what to do if I were to be confronted with that situation.

Thanks again!! :)