F1 Visa Questions
May 26th 2009, 3:38 am
#1
Just Joined
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 12
F1 Visa Questions
Hello All,
I am new to the forum and am hoping to find answers to some or all of my questions below - I'm just starting to look into getting an F1 visa and want to be sure I am prepared!
I hold dual Citizenship, British and Canadian. I moved to the United Kingdom for work in 1993 and obtained Citizenship in 2006. The UK is my home. I have family in Canada (father, sister) and in the United Kingdom (brother).
I am planning a career break and would like to study in California. I am 52 years old and have saved enough funds to finance all years of my studies. I have a partner of 10 years but no children.
I've read the F1 application guidelines but have some specific questions:
1. The course I am interested in starts in January 2010. I would like to travel to the US in mid-September 2009, approximately 110 days before the course starts. I intend to apply for my F1 visa in London where I live and will submit my UK passport to the consulate. I have read that if I do enter before 30 days I will need to file a change of status and pay $300.
Question: Do I need to obtain a separate tourist visa to use my UK passport to enter the US or can I obtain an F1 student visa in my UK passport and use my Canadian passport to enter as a tourist in September? (Canadians are allowed 6 month tourist visas without filling in any forms but if I have an F1 visa in my UK passport, will this cause confusion)
2. If I enter the US as a visitor in September on my Canadian passport do I have to leave the country in December and re-enter with my UK passport and F1 visa, or can I just submit the change of status form I 529 while I’m in the US and before I start classes?
3. If I obtain an F1 visa in BRITAIN in August 2009 for study in January 2010, can I go to the US as a tourist from September to December, 2009, then go to CANADA (closest point of entry) in December and re-enter the US within 30 days of study with my F1 visa and BRITISH passport. This would be instead of staying in the US and filing the I-539 form.
4. I owned property outside of London for several years but when my partner was relocated in the UK we sold the property and rented a house closer to his work. We are now planning to buy again but are waiting for the market to stabilize. I own a car in the UK and hold a number of bank accounts. I have worked as an engineering contractor for the same company since 2003. I am a UK taxpayer. My partner is working temporarily in Australia (he has Danish and Australian citizenship). I am currently staying with my sister in London.
Question: Will my bank accounts and car ownership provide sufficient evidence that my residence and ties are in the UK? I am concerned that as I don't own property in the UK now I may have trouble showing residence "intent", (which, after I complete my study will be the UK.)
I should add that we go to California often for vacation, I hope the frequent visits do not indicate a desire to become a resident there.
I'm sorry if this is long winded and confusing but any comments, suggestions, answers, or advice would be most welcome!
Regards,
Doris
I am new to the forum and am hoping to find answers to some or all of my questions below - I'm just starting to look into getting an F1 visa and want to be sure I am prepared!
I hold dual Citizenship, British and Canadian. I moved to the United Kingdom for work in 1993 and obtained Citizenship in 2006. The UK is my home. I have family in Canada (father, sister) and in the United Kingdom (brother).
I am planning a career break and would like to study in California. I am 52 years old and have saved enough funds to finance all years of my studies. I have a partner of 10 years but no children.
I've read the F1 application guidelines but have some specific questions:
1. The course I am interested in starts in January 2010. I would like to travel to the US in mid-September 2009, approximately 110 days before the course starts. I intend to apply for my F1 visa in London where I live and will submit my UK passport to the consulate. I have read that if I do enter before 30 days I will need to file a change of status and pay $300.
Question: Do I need to obtain a separate tourist visa to use my UK passport to enter the US or can I obtain an F1 student visa in my UK passport and use my Canadian passport to enter as a tourist in September? (Canadians are allowed 6 month tourist visas without filling in any forms but if I have an F1 visa in my UK passport, will this cause confusion)
2. If I enter the US as a visitor in September on my Canadian passport do I have to leave the country in December and re-enter with my UK passport and F1 visa, or can I just submit the change of status form I 529 while I’m in the US and before I start classes?
3. If I obtain an F1 visa in BRITAIN in August 2009 for study in January 2010, can I go to the US as a tourist from September to December, 2009, then go to CANADA (closest point of entry) in December and re-enter the US within 30 days of study with my F1 visa and BRITISH passport. This would be instead of staying in the US and filing the I-539 form.
4. I owned property outside of London for several years but when my partner was relocated in the UK we sold the property and rented a house closer to his work. We are now planning to buy again but are waiting for the market to stabilize. I own a car in the UK and hold a number of bank accounts. I have worked as an engineering contractor for the same company since 2003. I am a UK taxpayer. My partner is working temporarily in Australia (he has Danish and Australian citizenship). I am currently staying with my sister in London.
Question: Will my bank accounts and car ownership provide sufficient evidence that my residence and ties are in the UK? I am concerned that as I don't own property in the UK now I may have trouble showing residence "intent", (which, after I complete my study will be the UK.)
I should add that we go to California often for vacation, I hope the frequent visits do not indicate a desire to become a resident there.
I'm sorry if this is long winded and confusing but any comments, suggestions, answers, or advice would be most welcome!
Regards,
Doris
May 26th 2009, 10:03 am
#2
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2009
Location: Berkeley, CA
Posts: 927
Re: F1 Visa Questions
It might be quite a bit easier to use your Canadian citizenship / passport for the whole trip. That would avoid the need to go to the embassy in London and pay all the associated fees.
You still need to be in F-1 status to study in the US, which means procuring an I-20 from the university and presenting it at a US border. Here is what I would recommend (bearing in mind that I am not Canadian and might well be wrong)
1. Fly to US, enter as visitor on Canadian passport (permitted to stay up to 182 days). Tell the CBP you will be there for 110 days and they will issue you an I-94 valid for at least that long, in visitor status.
2. Do your 110 days of tourist stuff, and while you're there, get the I-20 from the university. Alternatively the university could mail it to you while you're still in the UK.
3. Travel to the nearest border (probably Mexico or Canada) 30 days or less before you start your course. Present passport, existing I-94 and I-20. They will give you a new I-94 in F-1 status.
4. Enjoy university, make sure you meet all the requirements to stay in F-1 status.
Alternatives:
(a) Replace step 3 with a change-of-status application. You don't have to go to a border, but there is a fee.
(b) Maybe as a Canadian you can enter in F-1 status right from the start, as long as you have your I-20. I don't know. Worth a try.
Either way, my inclination is that the whole thing will be a lot easier and cheaper if you stick with your Canadian citizenship/passport for everything. I don't think there is any purpose for which the British passport would be better. You are under no obligation to use your UK passport for this just because you are resident in the UK. You can still use your UK passport to enter and leave the UK for visits while you are studying in the US.
You still need to be in F-1 status to study in the US, which means procuring an I-20 from the university and presenting it at a US border. Here is what I would recommend (bearing in mind that I am not Canadian and might well be wrong)
1. Fly to US, enter as visitor on Canadian passport (permitted to stay up to 182 days). Tell the CBP you will be there for 110 days and they will issue you an I-94 valid for at least that long, in visitor status.
2. Do your 110 days of tourist stuff, and while you're there, get the I-20 from the university. Alternatively the university could mail it to you while you're still in the UK.
3. Travel to the nearest border (probably Mexico or Canada) 30 days or less before you start your course. Present passport, existing I-94 and I-20. They will give you a new I-94 in F-1 status.
4. Enjoy university, make sure you meet all the requirements to stay in F-1 status.
Alternatives:
(a) Replace step 3 with a change-of-status application. You don't have to go to a border, but there is a fee.
(b) Maybe as a Canadian you can enter in F-1 status right from the start, as long as you have your I-20. I don't know. Worth a try.
Either way, my inclination is that the whole thing will be a lot easier and cheaper if you stick with your Canadian citizenship/passport for everything. I don't think there is any purpose for which the British passport would be better. You are under no obligation to use your UK passport for this just because you are resident in the UK. You can still use your UK passport to enter and leave the UK for visits while you are studying in the US.
Last edited by henryh; May 26th 2009 at 10:19 am.
May 26th 2009, 3:09 pm
#3
American Expat
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 7,598
Re: F1 Visa Questions
Don't ever use the UK passport to travel to the US.
If you have a valid Canadian passport, you don't need the F-1 visa.
Obtain an I-20 from the school, pay the I-901 fee at:
https://www.fmjfee.com/i901fee/
Take the Canadian passport, I-20, receipt for the I-901, and bank statements showing you can pay for school and seek entry to the US no more than 30 days prior to class. Canadians have the 30-day restriction as everyone else.
If you want to visit more than 30 days before school starts, you can use the Canadian passport for that too. Canadian visitors rarely get an I-94 so don't ask for an I-94 as a Canadian visitor.
However, filing a change of status application to go from B-2 to student can be time consuming, and problematic. I'd suggest going to Canada and back within 30 days of the start date on the I-20.
When you come back to the US, they will send you into the office to get your papers stamped, issue an I-94 as an F-1 student, and if at a land border, charge you $6 US in cash, check or charge card.
If you have a valid Canadian passport, you don't need the F-1 visa.
Obtain an I-20 from the school, pay the I-901 fee at:
https://www.fmjfee.com/i901fee/
Take the Canadian passport, I-20, receipt for the I-901, and bank statements showing you can pay for school and seek entry to the US no more than 30 days prior to class. Canadians have the 30-day restriction as everyone else.
If you want to visit more than 30 days before school starts, you can use the Canadian passport for that too. Canadian visitors rarely get an I-94 so don't ask for an I-94 as a Canadian visitor.
However, filing a change of status application to go from B-2 to student can be time consuming, and problematic. I'd suggest going to Canada and back within 30 days of the start date on the I-20.
When you come back to the US, they will send you into the office to get your papers stamped, issue an I-94 as an F-1 student, and if at a land border, charge you $6 US in cash, check or charge card.
Last edited by crg; May 26th 2009 at 3:12 pm.
May 26th 2009, 10:18 pm
#4
Just Joined
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 12
Re: F1 Visa Questions
Thank you Henry and Crg
I just posted a reply to both of your messages but it's not showing up. I'm sending this as a test to see if it's lost or just delayed....
I just posted a reply to both of your messages but it's not showing up. I'm sending this as a test to see if it's lost or just delayed....
May 26th 2009, 10:37 pm
#6
Just Joined
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 12
Re: F1 Visa Questions
Firstly, thanks to your replies which raise a few more questions:
1. I wondered why you both think its better to use a Canadian passport for this? My British passport has 8 years left but my Canadian one runs out in June 2010 and expires before the end of my planned studies (3 years). Canadians are only issued 5 year passports. I thought it would be easier to have the whole thing processed with my UK passport which will be valid over the full period of study.
2. I read that everyone over 18 and under 80 has to have an interview for an F1 visa, Canadians included. The wait time in the embassy in London is only 3 days. Don't you just get the visa during the interview and then you show that, the I-20 and your proof of funds at the border?
3. Why is it difficult to apply for change of status from B2 to F1 in the US? From the website it seems a matter of mailing in the I-539 form (and paying $300)
4. My Canadian passport has quite a few stamps into the US and the last time I entered the US (January 2009) I was questioned about my intentions. I did not have a return ticket (very silly on my part, I won't do that again) and was considered to be someone who may be wanting to overstay the 182 days per year. I did have proof of finances and was able to show that, but the immigration officer was not pleased and he stamped a B2 visa in my passport with an exit date 6 weeks later. (Canadians don't usually get B2 stamps in their passports) I made sure I was out of the US before that date. I spoke to an immigration lawyer in the US and he assured me I had done nothing wrong but I'm still worried my name is on a "bad" list somewhere because of this.
I have no property now in the UK (sold the flat a few years ago and have been renting due to work relocation) but have a sister there, a long term partner, a car and healthy bank accounts, plus I can get a letter from my employer to say I have worked there several years and will be welcome back (whenever work is available, as I am an engineering contractor).
Thanks again for all the advice!
1. I wondered why you both think its better to use a Canadian passport for this? My British passport has 8 years left but my Canadian one runs out in June 2010 and expires before the end of my planned studies (3 years). Canadians are only issued 5 year passports. I thought it would be easier to have the whole thing processed with my UK passport which will be valid over the full period of study.
2. I read that everyone over 18 and under 80 has to have an interview for an F1 visa, Canadians included. The wait time in the embassy in London is only 3 days. Don't you just get the visa during the interview and then you show that, the I-20 and your proof of funds at the border?
3. Why is it difficult to apply for change of status from B2 to F1 in the US? From the website it seems a matter of mailing in the I-539 form (and paying $300)
4. My Canadian passport has quite a few stamps into the US and the last time I entered the US (January 2009) I was questioned about my intentions. I did not have a return ticket (very silly on my part, I won't do that again) and was considered to be someone who may be wanting to overstay the 182 days per year. I did have proof of finances and was able to show that, but the immigration officer was not pleased and he stamped a B2 visa in my passport with an exit date 6 weeks later. (Canadians don't usually get B2 stamps in their passports) I made sure I was out of the US before that date. I spoke to an immigration lawyer in the US and he assured me I had done nothing wrong but I'm still worried my name is on a "bad" list somewhere because of this.
I have no property now in the UK (sold the flat a few years ago and have been renting due to work relocation) but have a sister there, a long term partner, a car and healthy bank accounts, plus I can get a letter from my employer to say I have worked there several years and will be welcome back (whenever work is available, as I am an engineering contractor).
Thanks again for all the advice!
May 26th 2009, 11:39 pm
#8
American Expat
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 7,598
Re: F1 Visa Questions
1. I wondered why you both think its better to use a Canadian passport for this?
Canadians get special treatment when coming to the US. They get visa free access for almost any classification including as a student.
2. I read that everyone over 18 and under 80 has to have an interview for an F1 visa, Canadians included.
Absolutely not. That is false. Canadians don't have to go anywhere near the Embassy to be an F-1. Canadians only need a visa for the E, V, and K classifications. The only interview a Canadian gets for an F-1 would be at the border, or with the school admissions department. If you travel as a Canadian, you don't have to go to the embassy at all to get F-1 status. The Department of State is out of the equation.
3. Why is it difficult to apply for change of status from B2 to F1 in the US? From the website it seems a matter of mailing in the I-539 form (and paying $300)
After 9/11 they clamped down on switching from B-2 tourist to F-1. You're supposed to be admitted as a prospective student B-2 or the change to F-1 should be unforeseen.
Canadians get special treatment when coming to the US. They get visa free access for almost any classification including as a student.
2. I read that everyone over 18 and under 80 has to have an interview for an F1 visa, Canadians included.
Absolutely not. That is false. Canadians don't have to go anywhere near the Embassy to be an F-1. Canadians only need a visa for the E, V, and K classifications. The only interview a Canadian gets for an F-1 would be at the border, or with the school admissions department. If you travel as a Canadian, you don't have to go to the embassy at all to get F-1 status. The Department of State is out of the equation.
3. Why is it difficult to apply for change of status from B2 to F1 in the US? From the website it seems a matter of mailing in the I-539 form (and paying $300)
After 9/11 they clamped down on switching from B-2 tourist to F-1. You're supposed to be admitted as a prospective student B-2 or the change to F-1 should be unforeseen.
May 27th 2009, 12:07 am
#9
US immigration lawyer.
Joined: Jan 2008
Location: Los Angeles & Palm Springs, California
Posts: 695
Re: F1 Visa Questions
1. I wondered why you both think its better to use a Canadian passport for this? My British passport has 8 years left but my Canadian one runs out in June 2010 and expires before the end of my planned studies (3 years). Canadians are only issued 5 year passports. I thought it would be easier to have the whole thing processed with my UK passport which will be valid over the full period of study.
2. I read that everyone over 18 and under 80 has to have an interview for an F1 visa, Canadians included. The wait time in the embassy in London is only 3 days. Don't you just get the visa during the interview and then you show that, the I-20 and your proof of funds at the border?
IF you were to try for the visa at AmEmb-London, they would put a visa stamp in your UK ppt, but NOT in your Canadian one. In order to get the vx at Grosvenor Sq, you will have to show your I-20 and proof of funds AT THE AmEmb. You should also have the proof of funds with you and the I-20 at the POE.
4. My Canadian passport has quite a few stamps into the US and the last time I entered the US (January 2009) I was questioned about my intentions. I did not have a return ticket (very silly on my part, I won't do that again) and was considered to be someone who may be wanting to overstay the 182 days per year. I did have proof of finances and was able to show that, but the immigration officer was not pleased and he stamped a B2 visa in my passport with an exit date 6 weeks later. (Canadians don't usually get B2 stamps in their passports) I made sure I was out of the US before that date. I spoke to an immigration lawyer in the US and he assured me I had done nothing wrong but I'm still worried my name is on a "bad" list somewhere because of this.
By the way: as a technical matter, the border guard did NOT give you a B-2 visa at entry. Border guards do NOT have the power to issue visas. The border guard inspected you, stamped your ppt, and wrote B-2 on the entry stamp, and wrote in an authorized stay of 6 weeks. If the border guard did not give you an I-94 arrival card, there is at least some doubt whether your border guard followed correct protocol, because "if admissible, a B-2 is generally admitted for 6 months," and "unless specifically authorized by a supervisory inspector, the admissions period shall be no less than 6 months." At least, so sayeth the inspector's manual.
I hope that helps with a little perspective. Best of luck.
--J Craig Fong
Los Angeles, CA
May 28th 2009, 8:09 pm
#10
Just Joined
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 12
Re: F1 Visa Questions
Thank you crg and Craig,
I am so lucky to have found this forum, before making timely and costly mistakes - your knowlege is so helpful.
I think I’m getting there but still have a few concerns
1. PPT flipping – I have also wondered about this. I have never done it intentionally as I have no intention of breaking immigration laws. Also, is it not possible to track a person through the immigration system no matter what passport they use? I do not want to do anything that is or appears illegal. However, I was told when I received my UK citizenship that I must enter the UK with my UK passport – as the resident visa in my Canadian passport I had for years is no longer valid – I am now a UK Citizen and must show that on entry to the UK. So, when I travel to the United States I use my Canadian passport. When I go to Canada, I use my Canadian passport as I am Canadian. My Canadian passport has only been stamped once on entry to Canada. When I go to the UK I use my UK passport which is never stamped. As far as I am aware, the way I use my passports is the only way and 100% legal. Neither Canada nor the UK mind if a person has 2 passports.
QUESTION: If I am doing something wrong, please advise!
2. F1 visa. The College I am applying to said they would issue an I-20 for 3 years. If I don’t have a visa I will need something to prove I am in the country legally as a student if I leave and return within that period. From what I read on the Columbia website, I should be issued an I-94 card with the notation F-1 D/S which I must have (I assume instead of an F1 visa?) I don’t know what D/S means.
(Note: I am not actually applying to Columbia but thought the information would apply to me):
The website states:
“To enter the U.S. in F-1 student status, Canadians DO require an I-20
and proof of payment of the SEVIS fee.
At the port of entry, Canadian students must present the Form I-20 and
supporting financial documentation to the immigration inspector to be
admitted into the U.S. in F-1 status. You will be given an I-94
Admission/Departure card to complete. Be sure to look at your I-94
card before you leave the inspection area to ensure that it has the
notation "F-1, D/S" written on it. Canadian students must have an I-94
card to confirm current F-1 status. If not, you are considered to be
in Visitor (B-2) status, a status which does not permit study in the
U.S.
Some Canadians have mistakenly assumed that regulations that apply to
international students do not apply to them. Students from Canada are
subject to the same regulations regarding employment in the United
States, requirement for full-time study and all other provisions for
maintaining status. It is especially important for Canadian students
to be vigilant about entering the United States in proper student
status, as immigration inspectors are accustomed to admitting Canadian
citizens as visitors”
http://www.columbia.edu/cu/isso/visa....html#canadian
QUESTION: Is the above information up to date and complete, and do I just need to travel in and out of the country with my I-20, I-94 form and proof of funds every time I re-enter to show I can still cover my costs and am still a student?
Thank you Mr. Fong for the clarification on the B-2 visa issue. According to my passport I was stamped with a B-2 class of entry for only 6 weeks. I may have been dealt with by a supervisory inspector, and I now wish I had taken his name and title, but was so shook up I just accepted his word as gospel. The border guard sent me to a separate room and I had to wait until I was called by another officer. I knew I had done nothing wrong but he was VERY aggressive, and told me he could tell immediately if I was lying. He asked me how much money I had on me and when I said $100 he barked “How do you expect to pay support yourself in the US on that?” When I removed my wallet from my purse to show my credit cards etc from the UK, he grabbed it and started going through it and throwing them on the table as if he didn’t know what they were and didn’t think they were real credit cards. I then showed him some bank statements from the UK in which I had substantial savings (several thousand pounds). I honestly do not know what provoked him but I was nothing but cooperative and answered his questions honestly. Any hesitation on my part was due to nerves as I have never been treated like this before.
Anyway, he then filled out a white card, and tore off the bottom half which had a stamp and a date on it. He told me if I did NOT leave the country and hand in that white card before that date I would have a lot of trouble if I ever wanted to enter again. He also stamped my passport and wrote “B-2” on the “Class” line and “March 15, 2009” I left the country on March 12. So, needless to say, I want to be absolutely sure I have all my paperwork in order before I enter again.
QUESTION: When you say “It will probably trigger other border guards to be alert to your intentions at future entries” do you have any further advice on what I should have with me to show my residence is in the UK and I have no intention to settle in the US? Note I do not at this time own property but I have several bank accounts and a car which I intend to keep in the UK.
QUESTION: If I show my bank accounts, assets and possessions are in the UK but I enter the country with a Canadian passport will that look strange? I also have bank accounts in Canada, and can show those too but I don’t want to confuse the issue as to where I do reside (The UK is home but I travel a lot to see my parents in Canada and have some funds there too)
Thanks again, and apologies if I'm being dense, I just don't want to make a mistake!
I am so lucky to have found this forum, before making timely and costly mistakes - your knowlege is so helpful.
I think I’m getting there but still have a few concerns
1. PPT flipping – I have also wondered about this. I have never done it intentionally as I have no intention of breaking immigration laws. Also, is it not possible to track a person through the immigration system no matter what passport they use? I do not want to do anything that is or appears illegal. However, I was told when I received my UK citizenship that I must enter the UK with my UK passport – as the resident visa in my Canadian passport I had for years is no longer valid – I am now a UK Citizen and must show that on entry to the UK. So, when I travel to the United States I use my Canadian passport. When I go to Canada, I use my Canadian passport as I am Canadian. My Canadian passport has only been stamped once on entry to Canada. When I go to the UK I use my UK passport which is never stamped. As far as I am aware, the way I use my passports is the only way and 100% legal. Neither Canada nor the UK mind if a person has 2 passports.
QUESTION: If I am doing something wrong, please advise!
2. F1 visa. The College I am applying to said they would issue an I-20 for 3 years. If I don’t have a visa I will need something to prove I am in the country legally as a student if I leave and return within that period. From what I read on the Columbia website, I should be issued an I-94 card with the notation F-1 D/S which I must have (I assume instead of an F1 visa?) I don’t know what D/S means.
(Note: I am not actually applying to Columbia but thought the information would apply to me):
The website states:
“To enter the U.S. in F-1 student status, Canadians DO require an I-20
and proof of payment of the SEVIS fee.
At the port of entry, Canadian students must present the Form I-20 and
supporting financial documentation to the immigration inspector to be
admitted into the U.S. in F-1 status. You will be given an I-94
Admission/Departure card to complete. Be sure to look at your I-94
card before you leave the inspection area to ensure that it has the
notation "F-1, D/S" written on it. Canadian students must have an I-94
card to confirm current F-1 status. If not, you are considered to be
in Visitor (B-2) status, a status which does not permit study in the
U.S.
Some Canadians have mistakenly assumed that regulations that apply to
international students do not apply to them. Students from Canada are
subject to the same regulations regarding employment in the United
States, requirement for full-time study and all other provisions for
maintaining status. It is especially important for Canadian students
to be vigilant about entering the United States in proper student
status, as immigration inspectors are accustomed to admitting Canadian
citizens as visitors”
http://www.columbia.edu/cu/isso/visa....html#canadian
QUESTION: Is the above information up to date and complete, and do I just need to travel in and out of the country with my I-20, I-94 form and proof of funds every time I re-enter to show I can still cover my costs and am still a student?
Thank you Mr. Fong for the clarification on the B-2 visa issue. According to my passport I was stamped with a B-2 class of entry for only 6 weeks. I may have been dealt with by a supervisory inspector, and I now wish I had taken his name and title, but was so shook up I just accepted his word as gospel. The border guard sent me to a separate room and I had to wait until I was called by another officer. I knew I had done nothing wrong but he was VERY aggressive, and told me he could tell immediately if I was lying. He asked me how much money I had on me and when I said $100 he barked “How do you expect to pay support yourself in the US on that?” When I removed my wallet from my purse to show my credit cards etc from the UK, he grabbed it and started going through it and throwing them on the table as if he didn’t know what they were and didn’t think they were real credit cards. I then showed him some bank statements from the UK in which I had substantial savings (several thousand pounds). I honestly do not know what provoked him but I was nothing but cooperative and answered his questions honestly. Any hesitation on my part was due to nerves as I have never been treated like this before.
Anyway, he then filled out a white card, and tore off the bottom half which had a stamp and a date on it. He told me if I did NOT leave the country and hand in that white card before that date I would have a lot of trouble if I ever wanted to enter again. He also stamped my passport and wrote “B-2” on the “Class” line and “March 15, 2009” I left the country on March 12. So, needless to say, I want to be absolutely sure I have all my paperwork in order before I enter again.
QUESTION: When you say “It will probably trigger other border guards to be alert to your intentions at future entries” do you have any further advice on what I should have with me to show my residence is in the UK and I have no intention to settle in the US? Note I do not at this time own property but I have several bank accounts and a car which I intend to keep in the UK.
QUESTION: If I show my bank accounts, assets and possessions are in the UK but I enter the country with a Canadian passport will that look strange? I also have bank accounts in Canada, and can show those too but I don’t want to confuse the issue as to where I do reside (The UK is home but I travel a lot to see my parents in Canada and have some funds there too)
Thanks again, and apologies if I'm being dense, I just don't want to make a mistake!
May 28th 2009, 10:57 pm
#11
American Expat
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 7,598
Re: F1 Visa Questions
Thank you crg and Craig,
I am so lucky to have found this forum, before making timely and costly mistakes - your knowlege is so helpful.
I think I’m getting there but still have a few concerns
1. PPT flipping – I have also wondered about this. I have never done it intentionally as I have no intention of breaking immigration laws. Also, is it not possible to track a person through the immigration system no matter what passport they use? I do not want to do anything that is or appears illegal. However, I was told when I received my UK citizenship that I must enter the UK with my UK passport – as the resident visa in my Canadian passport I had for years is no longer valid – I am now a UK Citizen and must show that on entry to the UK. So, when I travel to the United States I use my Canadian passport. When I go to Canada, I use my Canadian passport as I am Canadian. My Canadian passport has only been stamped once on entry to Canada. When I go to the UK I use my UK passport which is never stamped. As far as I am aware, the way I use my passports is the only way and 100% legal. Neither Canada nor the UK mind if a person has 2 passports.
QUESTION: If I am doing something wrong, please advise!
2. F1 visa. The College I am applying to said they would issue an I-20 for 3 years. If I don’t have a visa I will need something to prove I am in the country legally as a student if I leave and return within that period. From what I read on the Columbia website, I should be issued an I-94 card with the notation F-1 D/S which I must have (I assume instead of an F1 visa?) I don’t know what D/S means.
(Note: I am not actually applying to Columbia but thought the information would apply to me):
The website states:
“To enter the U.S. in F-1 student status, Canadians DO require an I-20
and proof of payment of the SEVIS fee.
At the port of entry, Canadian students must present the Form I-20 and
supporting financial documentation to the immigration inspector to be
admitted into the U.S. in F-1 status. You will be given an I-94
Admission/Departure card to complete. Be sure to look at your I-94
card before you leave the inspection area to ensure that it has the
notation "F-1, D/S" written on it. Canadian students must have an I-94
card to confirm current F-1 status. If not, you are considered to be
in Visitor (B-2) status, a status which does not permit study in the
U.S.
Some Canadians have mistakenly assumed that regulations that apply to
international students do not apply to them. Students from Canada are
subject to the same regulations regarding employment in the United
States, requirement for full-time study and all other provisions for
maintaining status. It is especially important for Canadian students
to be vigilant about entering the United States in proper student
status, as immigration inspectors are accustomed to admitting Canadian
citizens as visitors”
http://www.columbia.edu/cu/isso/visa....html#canadian
QUESTION: Is the above information up to date and complete, and do I just need to travel in and out of the country with my I-20, I-94 form and proof of funds every time I re-enter to show I can still cover my costs and am still a student?
Thank you Mr. Fong for the clarification on the B-2 visa issue. According to my passport I was stamped with a B-2 class of entry for only 6 weeks. I may have been dealt with by a supervisory inspector, and I now wish I had taken his name and title, but was so shook up I just accepted his word as gospel. The border guard sent me to a separate room and I had to wait until I was called by another officer. I knew I had done nothing wrong but he was VERY aggressive, and told me he could tell immediately if I was lying. He asked me how much money I had on me and when I said $100 he barked “How do you expect to pay support yourself in the US on that?” When I removed my wallet from my purse to show my credit cards etc from the UK, he grabbed it and started going through it and throwing them on the table as if he didn’t know what they were and didn’t think they were real credit cards. I then showed him some bank statements from the UK in which I had substantial savings (several thousand pounds). I honestly do not know what provoked him but I was nothing but cooperative and answered his questions honestly. Any hesitation on my part was due to nerves as I have never been treated like this before.
Anyway, he then filled out a white card, and tore off the bottom half which had a stamp and a date on it. He told me if I did NOT leave the country and hand in that white card before that date I would have a lot of trouble if I ever wanted to enter again. He also stamped my passport and wrote “B-2” on the “Class” line and “March 15, 2009” I left the country on March 12. So, needless to say, I want to be absolutely sure I have all my paperwork in order before I enter again.
QUESTION: When you say “It will probably trigger other border guards to be alert to your intentions at future entries” do you have any further advice on what I should have with me to show my residence is in the UK and I have no intention to settle in the US? Note I do not at this time own property but I have several bank accounts and a car which I intend to keep in the UK.
QUESTION: If I show my bank accounts, assets and possessions are in the UK but I enter the country with a Canadian passport will that look strange? I also have bank accounts in Canada, and can show those too but I don’t want to confuse the issue as to where I do reside (The UK is home but I travel a lot to see my parents in Canada and have some funds there too)
Thanks again, and apologies if I'm being dense, I just don't want to make a mistake!
I am so lucky to have found this forum, before making timely and costly mistakes - your knowlege is so helpful.
I think I’m getting there but still have a few concerns
1. PPT flipping – I have also wondered about this. I have never done it intentionally as I have no intention of breaking immigration laws. Also, is it not possible to track a person through the immigration system no matter what passport they use? I do not want to do anything that is or appears illegal. However, I was told when I received my UK citizenship that I must enter the UK with my UK passport – as the resident visa in my Canadian passport I had for years is no longer valid – I am now a UK Citizen and must show that on entry to the UK. So, when I travel to the United States I use my Canadian passport. When I go to Canada, I use my Canadian passport as I am Canadian. My Canadian passport has only been stamped once on entry to Canada. When I go to the UK I use my UK passport which is never stamped. As far as I am aware, the way I use my passports is the only way and 100% legal. Neither Canada nor the UK mind if a person has 2 passports.
QUESTION: If I am doing something wrong, please advise!
2. F1 visa. The College I am applying to said they would issue an I-20 for 3 years. If I don’t have a visa I will need something to prove I am in the country legally as a student if I leave and return within that period. From what I read on the Columbia website, I should be issued an I-94 card with the notation F-1 D/S which I must have (I assume instead of an F1 visa?) I don’t know what D/S means.
(Note: I am not actually applying to Columbia but thought the information would apply to me):
The website states:
“To enter the U.S. in F-1 student status, Canadians DO require an I-20
and proof of payment of the SEVIS fee.
At the port of entry, Canadian students must present the Form I-20 and
supporting financial documentation to the immigration inspector to be
admitted into the U.S. in F-1 status. You will be given an I-94
Admission/Departure card to complete. Be sure to look at your I-94
card before you leave the inspection area to ensure that it has the
notation "F-1, D/S" written on it. Canadian students must have an I-94
card to confirm current F-1 status. If not, you are considered to be
in Visitor (B-2) status, a status which does not permit study in the
U.S.
Some Canadians have mistakenly assumed that regulations that apply to
international students do not apply to them. Students from Canada are
subject to the same regulations regarding employment in the United
States, requirement for full-time study and all other provisions for
maintaining status. It is especially important for Canadian students
to be vigilant about entering the United States in proper student
status, as immigration inspectors are accustomed to admitting Canadian
citizens as visitors”
http://www.columbia.edu/cu/isso/visa....html#canadian
QUESTION: Is the above information up to date and complete, and do I just need to travel in and out of the country with my I-20, I-94 form and proof of funds every time I re-enter to show I can still cover my costs and am still a student?
Thank you Mr. Fong for the clarification on the B-2 visa issue. According to my passport I was stamped with a B-2 class of entry for only 6 weeks. I may have been dealt with by a supervisory inspector, and I now wish I had taken his name and title, but was so shook up I just accepted his word as gospel. The border guard sent me to a separate room and I had to wait until I was called by another officer. I knew I had done nothing wrong but he was VERY aggressive, and told me he could tell immediately if I was lying. He asked me how much money I had on me and when I said $100 he barked “How do you expect to pay support yourself in the US on that?” When I removed my wallet from my purse to show my credit cards etc from the UK, he grabbed it and started going through it and throwing them on the table as if he didn’t know what they were and didn’t think they were real credit cards. I then showed him some bank statements from the UK in which I had substantial savings (several thousand pounds). I honestly do not know what provoked him but I was nothing but cooperative and answered his questions honestly. Any hesitation on my part was due to nerves as I have never been treated like this before.
Anyway, he then filled out a white card, and tore off the bottom half which had a stamp and a date on it. He told me if I did NOT leave the country and hand in that white card before that date I would have a lot of trouble if I ever wanted to enter again. He also stamped my passport and wrote “B-2” on the “Class” line and “March 15, 2009” I left the country on March 12. So, needless to say, I want to be absolutely sure I have all my paperwork in order before I enter again.
QUESTION: When you say “It will probably trigger other border guards to be alert to your intentions at future entries” do you have any further advice on what I should have with me to show my residence is in the UK and I have no intention to settle in the US? Note I do not at this time own property but I have several bank accounts and a car which I intend to keep in the UK.
QUESTION: If I show my bank accounts, assets and possessions are in the UK but I enter the country with a Canadian passport will that look strange? I also have bank accounts in Canada, and can show those too but I don’t want to confuse the issue as to where I do reside (The UK is home but I travel a lot to see my parents in Canada and have some funds there too)
Thanks again, and apologies if I'm being dense, I just don't want to make a mistake!
If you have the F-1 documents, and haven't filed an I-485 (adjustment of status application), they are highly unlikely to bother you about the foreign domicile especially if you are Canadian. Canadians who want to live illegally just say they're off to the mall, and skip studying altogether. You'll have permission to be in the US for a while, and something lawful to do while you're there (study). It's not like a long term tourist with no fixed purpose and plenty of time to work illegally.
May 28th 2009, 11:03 pm
#12
Account Closed
Joined: Aug 2002
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 38,865
Re: F1 Visa Questions
I don’t know what D/S means.
I don’t want to confuse the issue as to where I do reside...
Ian
May 31st 2009, 9:45 pm
#13
Just Joined
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 12
Re: F1 Visa Questions
Thank you crg and ian
I understand an I-485 is application to change status to full time, i.e. green card? No I will not be filing one. It sounds straightforward then, with my Canadian passport I will more or less automatically get the F-1 status. But I am still nervous after the treatment I had last time I entered the US.
Ian, you say
“You have a Canadian passport and are entering the US from Canada. I'd be surprised if they did *not* assume you resided in Canada. You are not obligated to give them a reason to think anything different.”
But I think my previous trouble at the border may raise flags and I may have to show proof of ties to Canada (or the UK?) I also have a lot of UK entry stamps in my Canadian passport when I was a permanent resident and did not yet have my UK passport. I have lived and worked in the UK off and on since 1993 and full time since 2000. They could ask me why there are so many UK stamps in my passport. In the last year I have spent a lot of time in Canada (elderly parent) but the UK has been my home for the last 9 years. What should I bring with me to the Point of Entry with my Canadian passport? Bank statements from both countries? (I do have bank accounts in both countries). My lack of physical residence now makes me look like I am not really settled. I just don’t want to make any mistakes.
I may sound very repetitive but I’ve heard again and again one can be denied entry for no reason other than a tiny suspicion be it valid or not, and “they just don’t like your face”.
Despite my previous encounter it sounds from the responses here that my easiest option would be to go to the US as a tourist with my Canadian passport from Sept to Dec 2009 and then return to Canada within 30 days of my course starting and go back to the US with all the necessary papers and get the F1 D/S status in my passport. My Canadian Passport has a year left (June 2010), should I renew it before I get the F1 stamp, as the passport will only be valid for another 7 months? Or should I just renew it now so I next enter with a clean passport without all the UK and US stamps?
I understand an I-485 is application to change status to full time, i.e. green card? No I will not be filing one. It sounds straightforward then, with my Canadian passport I will more or less automatically get the F-1 status. But I am still nervous after the treatment I had last time I entered the US.
Ian, you say
“You have a Canadian passport and are entering the US from Canada. I'd be surprised if they did *not* assume you resided in Canada. You are not obligated to give them a reason to think anything different.”
But I think my previous trouble at the border may raise flags and I may have to show proof of ties to Canada (or the UK?) I also have a lot of UK entry stamps in my Canadian passport when I was a permanent resident and did not yet have my UK passport. I have lived and worked in the UK off and on since 1993 and full time since 2000. They could ask me why there are so many UK stamps in my passport. In the last year I have spent a lot of time in Canada (elderly parent) but the UK has been my home for the last 9 years. What should I bring with me to the Point of Entry with my Canadian passport? Bank statements from both countries? (I do have bank accounts in both countries). My lack of physical residence now makes me look like I am not really settled. I just don’t want to make any mistakes.
I may sound very repetitive but I’ve heard again and again one can be denied entry for no reason other than a tiny suspicion be it valid or not, and “they just don’t like your face”.
Despite my previous encounter it sounds from the responses here that my easiest option would be to go to the US as a tourist with my Canadian passport from Sept to Dec 2009 and then return to Canada within 30 days of my course starting and go back to the US with all the necessary papers and get the F1 D/S status in my passport. My Canadian Passport has a year left (June 2010), should I renew it before I get the F1 stamp, as the passport will only be valid for another 7 months? Or should I just renew it now so I next enter with a clean passport without all the UK and US stamps?
Jun 1st 2009, 12:38 am
#14
American Expat
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 7,598
Re: F1 Visa Questions
Thank you crg and ian
I understand an I-485 is application to change status to full time, i.e. green card? No I will not be filing one. It sounds straightforward then, with my Canadian passport I will more or less automatically get the F-1 status. But I am still nervous after the treatment I had last time I entered the US.
Ian, you say
“You have a Canadian passport and are entering the US from Canada. I'd be surprised if they did *not* assume you resided in Canada. You are not obligated to give them a reason to think anything different.”
But I think my previous trouble at the border may raise flags and I may have to show proof of ties to Canada (or the UK?) I also have a lot of UK entry stamps in my Canadian passport when I was a permanent resident and did not yet have my UK passport. I have lived and worked in the UK off and on since 1993 and full time since 2000. They could ask me why there are so many UK stamps in my passport. In the last year I have spent a lot of time in Canada (elderly parent) but the UK has been my home for the last 9 years. What should I bring with me to the Point of Entry with my Canadian passport? Bank statements from both countries? (I do have bank accounts in both countries). My lack of physical residence now makes me look like I am not really settled. I just don’t want to make any mistakes.
I may sound very repetitive but I’ve heard again and again one can be denied entry for no reason other than a tiny suspicion be it valid or not, and “they just don’t like your face”.
Despite my previous encounter it sounds from the responses here that my easiest option would be to go to the US as a tourist with my Canadian passport from Sept to Dec 2009 and then return to Canada within 30 days of my course starting and go back to the US with all the necessary papers and get the F1 D/S status in my passport. My Canadian Passport has a year left (June 2010), should I renew it before I get the F1 stamp, as the passport will only be valid for another 7 months? Or should I just renew it now so I next enter with a clean passport without all the UK and US stamps?
I understand an I-485 is application to change status to full time, i.e. green card? No I will not be filing one. It sounds straightforward then, with my Canadian passport I will more or less automatically get the F-1 status. But I am still nervous after the treatment I had last time I entered the US.
Ian, you say
“You have a Canadian passport and are entering the US from Canada. I'd be surprised if they did *not* assume you resided in Canada. You are not obligated to give them a reason to think anything different.”
But I think my previous trouble at the border may raise flags and I may have to show proof of ties to Canada (or the UK?) I also have a lot of UK entry stamps in my Canadian passport when I was a permanent resident and did not yet have my UK passport. I have lived and worked in the UK off and on since 1993 and full time since 2000. They could ask me why there are so many UK stamps in my passport. In the last year I have spent a lot of time in Canada (elderly parent) but the UK has been my home for the last 9 years. What should I bring with me to the Point of Entry with my Canadian passport? Bank statements from both countries? (I do have bank accounts in both countries). My lack of physical residence now makes me look like I am not really settled. I just don’t want to make any mistakes.
I may sound very repetitive but I’ve heard again and again one can be denied entry for no reason other than a tiny suspicion be it valid or not, and “they just don’t like your face”.
Despite my previous encounter it sounds from the responses here that my easiest option would be to go to the US as a tourist with my Canadian passport from Sept to Dec 2009 and then return to Canada within 30 days of my course starting and go back to the US with all the necessary papers and get the F1 D/S status in my passport. My Canadian Passport has a year left (June 2010), should I renew it before I get the F1 stamp, as the passport will only be valid for another 7 months? Or should I just renew it now so I next enter with a clean passport without all the UK and US stamps?
They let you in last time, so they must not have thought you were that much of a risk. You may be over thinking this thing.
Jun 2nd 2009, 1:01 am
#15
Just Joined
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 12
Re: F1 Visa Questions
They won't care how much time is on the Canadian passport if you're an F-1 as long as it's valid at entry. It's your responsibility to renew it before it expires. You may even be able to do it in the US.
They let you in last time, so they must not have thought you were that much of a risk. You may be over thinking this thing.
They let you in last time, so they must not have thought you were that much of a risk. You may be over thinking this thing.
Oh yes, I have a tendency to overthink and worry about things - you are probably right! As the lawyer I spoke to said, I had done nothing wrong, I probably ran into a border officer who was having a bad morning (it was 6 a.m.) and he just needed to let out frustration.
I just received an email from the school's admissions officer and she absolutely insists I need an interview for the F1 visa but I have learned so much here, I now know she's wrong. I'll send her the link from Columbia I included above so she's clear on this. She must never have met a Canadian student!!!!
Thanks to all who helped me, I sincerely appreciate it.