shah.sh2000

Hi , There

I would appreciate your kind reply about my situation, I need your consulting
about my problem which is about something like shoplifting,....

"two year ago in Aug 2007, I travelled to Germany for some research studies (I am M.Sc student)
One day, I was going to a big shop and I bought some goods from that store , During Shopping I
picked up two pen which cost about 6 euros and not more and I put them in the pocket of my shirt,
After I paid the cash for other goods , I walked off the store , Suddenly I heard alerts indicating a theft
has been occured, At that moment I found out that I have forgot to pay for those pens, But I had no intention to THEFT, I inadvertently took
those pens out of store!!! I mistakenly went out of that store!

German cops came and took me to Police Station and asked me for passport,
I gave them passport , Afterwards One of the cops came and told me that keep calm! you can sign this paper and go anywhere! and Our chief said that we set you free (I think because the price of pens was so cheap)
I told him that if sign that paper is it possible that it cause problems for my visa in future
He told me that make sure it won't cause any difficulity for you, Just sign and go.
That' all of story I don't know that what happened or what if I have been to convicted to any crime or not???
Although the cost of pens was less than 6 euros and I was mistakenly walking off the store,..."

I have to mention that after that incident I traveled to Germany again in Summer 2008 with a new SCHENGEN visa
And I had no problem during interview with German Officer,


Right now I am applying for F-1 Student visa of US , I have I-20 form and other documents,

My real concern is about possibility of Inadmissability and Rejection because of that incident by US Officer in embassy?

Does this incident make me to have a moral turpitude? or any criminal record?

I am really concerned about part 38 in DS-156 form , Should I fill YES since I was not criminal I did not really do any real THEFT ,
I did not commited for crime of offense there! What should I do about this:

Have you ever been arrested or convicted for any offense or crime, even though subject of a pardon, amnesty or other similar legal action?

Can your help me about this?

I would appericate your kind reply

Folinskyinla

Hi:

You really do not have to shout about your question. It is annoying.

Your question is also conflicting. I have no idea of the nature of the paper you signed -- what did it say? You certainly don't say. Were you fingerprinted?

Also, what was the maximum penalty under German law for what you did?

Also, your fact pattern as you describe it fits within a classic and common description of a shoplifting offense with an attempt of saying "I did nothing wrong."

You admit that 1) you were in the shop 2) picked up the pens 3) put them in your pocket 4) picked up other merchandise 5) did not hide the other merchandise 6) paid for only the other merchandise and 7) attempted to walk out of the shop without out having paid for the hidden merchandise.

I recommend that you not take that attitude with a consular officer -- you will get a "yeah, right" response which is American slang for "You are full of BS." This is not the first time I've seen a situation such as you describe -- and in another American slang phrase "it will go over like a lead balloon."

ajb24

I think your best bet is to talk to the German Embassy before proceeding find out what they say before approaching the U.S embassy I dont think it matters in what country any offence was committed in. You might want to consulate a lawyer as well if u get a definitive answer from the German Embassy

shah.sh2000

Sorry If I shout in my previous Post!

But I have to say that I was not fingerprinted for that incident, They just
gave me a paper and told me that check the blank which says:
"I WILL NOT MAKE ANY STATEMENT"
sign it and go!
Unfortunately Like you I do not have any information about penalties in German law (I am not German)

The German officer told me that "IT WILL NOT MAKE ANY PROBLEM FOR
YOUR VISA"
he also said that he has talked with his cheif and He has ordered to
set me free , There was no fine or conviction , I think because
the prices of those pens was too much low!

Afterwards I took SCHENGEN visa from German Embassy again this year with no
problem , they did not ask me about anything last year!

do you think it may cause any problem for my F-1 visa application or
Do you think that US embassy might know about that incident if I do not
reveal about that and Fill "NO" in DS-156 form.

So many Thanks

ajb24

The Germans could not possibly be in a position to tell u about U.S visa issues only the U.S Embassy could do that, and am not certain whether this information would be shared with U.S immigration or UK Police for that matter did they say it would be?

shah.sh2000

I am not sure if they might share this information, I have been received clearance of German Embassy after that incident, What does it indicates?

Once after that incident German Embassy cleared me to get SCHENGEN visa for EU, so does this mean
that nothing has been recorded and it has just been a civil matter between
me and that store?

I am concerned if US embassy might have any information about me through
Department of Homeland security if it has been something recorded

Also I am concerned if US knows about German database of records if this incident have been booked as Criminal Record for me

do you think that I have been recorded with a moral turpitude?
do you think I should say anything about how had been my travel to Germany and What has happened to me in that Incident?

ajb24

Was the record of your arrest destroyed or erased can I ask, contact the German Embassy and find out. If your record was deleted by the germans then offically the incident didnt take place at least not a criminal incident which would mean that offically there is nothing to declare you cant determine a record that doesnt exist can you? That would mean you are free to tick no and it wouldnt be a lie because offically u have done nothing wrong

shah.sh2000

Ok!
So you mean that I should ask from German Embassy in Turkey about if any
record has been filed?

But I myself think that if it was a criminal record German Embassy will refuse to give another SCHENGEN Visa in this year,
What if it has not been deleted ? This will be an official criminal record for me?

Thanks

ajb24

That would be a good idea however since your German visa application was approved it would seem that maybe this wasnt filed and if it wasnt filed on the German Police system then surely that record doesnt offically exist am not certain these records are shared with U.S immigration or not, It might be an idea to talk a lawyer as well he could be advise u better than people on here can

Tracym

Oh for heaven's sake - the German embassy doesn't really have anything to do with this.

To the Original Poster - it sounds like you may not have been charged with anything. We can't tell.

If you want to be certain, I would suggest that you find out the procedure to run a police check on yourself in Germany - and see what it says. Then you will know for sure what is or isn't on your record.

ian-mstm

It's very dangerous to suggest he should lie either on an immigration form or to an immigration officer. Just because a record doesn't exist, doesn't mean the incident didn't happen. In fact, he's already admitted it happened.

Ian

shah.sh2000

I don't live in Germany , I live in Turkey , so my question is that :

1.Do you think that Interpol would give me any report about my status? or I should check for it in German Embassy?

2.Do you think that this incident exists in German Record Database?

3.Do you believe that Germans reveal their database to American Embassies or Homeland security department?

4.If record does not exist then Should I explain anything about that incident to US embassy Officer?

ajb24

Interpol record is possible, so yes there would be a record u could gain access to furnish your application with. However if no record exists I dont know how to proceed if u tick no u would technically by lying because u know u have been arrested, however if u tick yes you cant furnish the document to allow the embassy to assess your status. What would happen next is a law school exam, your best bet is talk to an experienced attorney. But your first step has to be to find out if there is a record u can access of your arrest you will need it for the embassy if there is no record of it, and no record that U.S immigration would have talk to an attorney they would know what to do

ajb24

Like I have raised how is he supposed to file an application when there is no record of the arrest and he cant file a waiver without one, but ticking no would be lying. Like I said how is he supposed to proceed the first step has to be find out if his record has or has not been deleted and then talk to a lawyer

shah.sh2000

last news is that I have asked about my problem happened in Germany from US consulate in Ankara Turkey, the officer told me that : "Ok ,NO PROBLEM APPLY FOR YOUR
VISA AS SOON"

I don't know that if it means that I can get the student visa (I doubt it), but I hope they will understand my situation because I have promised some faculty in Texas A&M univ. to start some new researches , and I don't want to miss this opportunity anyway, I hope consulate understand me...