Ketchell

My wife and I are planning on travelling from the UK out to the US for a period of up to 6 months (possibly longer) and have been advised that the best route would be to go for an extension of the visa waver program.

We have an appointment booked at the embassy in august and I was hoping for some advice on any issues that might effect our visa extension being granted. Our basic current status is:

1. Both UK citizens
2. Business owner with UK employees
3. Home owner

There are a couple of areas that currently concern me:

1. As a company owner I receive a income irrespective of hours worked. This is currently taken in the form of salary + dividends. Would this be regarded as working in the US if I continue to be paid in the UK during my stay?

2. The visa waver program can only be extended to 6 months since 911, what is an advisable route to staying longer? Would we need to return to the UK and go through the same process over again?

3. We are hoping to base our stay in the US in the San Francisco area, allowing us to travel more easily up and down the west coast. Renting an apartment seems to be the cheapest option for accommodation. However after reading through the posts on this forum, I can see that not possessing a SSN could potentially cause us problems with credit checks. Has anyone got a solution that might overcome this?

Thanks in advance for any help!

JK

simon bland

The Visa Waiver cannot be extended, I think that as you have an appointment at the embassy, that you are applying for a B1/B2 visa, which is normally good for 10 years, and you are normally given a 6 month stay when entering the US, this 6 month stay can then be extended.

IMHO I would go to the embassy armed with as much proof as possible, that this 6 month trip is indeed, a travelling holiday, and you have very strong ties to the UK.

As far as renting an apartment goes, I dont think you will have a problem renting a holiday home for 6 months, but you may have problems renting a normal apartment,as you are not eligible for a SSN.


Good Luck with your interview

Ketchell

Hi Simon,

Thanks for the feedback. Our embassy appointment is for the purpose of extending the standard visa waiver period from 3 to 6 months, this has to be done in person.

I was'nt aware that the B1/B2 could be suitable for out purposes. I've been advised that this would only be appropriate for those seeking to establish a business premises in the US prior to obtaining an L1.

Is the B1 a viable alternative to those wishing to stay in the US longer than 6 months, but not wishing to be employed in the states?

Thanks again for the help,

JK

simon bland

Now I am confused, because the Visa Waiver cannot be extended. The visa Waiver basically waives the need for a B1/B2 tourist visa, it eliminated citizens of certain countries, having to apply for a visa for a vacation trip.

So I'm not really sure what your trip to the embassy is for, if it's not to apply for a B1/B2

Ingo Pakleppa

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:45:34 +0000, Ketchell wrote:


    > My wife and I are planning on travelling from the UK out to the US for a
    > period of up to 6 months (possibly longer) and have been advised that
    > the best route would be to go for an extension of the visa waver
    > program.

You mean, apply for a visa and not use the visa waiver program at all.

The most critical aspect is to prove, very thoroughly, that you will be
returning to the UK and don't plan to retire in the US.

    > We have an appointment booked at the embassy in august and I was hoping
    > for some advice on any issues that might effect our visa extension being
    > granted. Our basic current status is:
    >
    > 1. Both UK citizens
    >
    > 2. Business owner with UK employees
    >
    > 3. Home owner
    >
    > There are a couple of areas that currently concern me:
    >
    > 1. As a company owner I receive a income irrespective of hours worked.
    > This is currently taken in the form of salary + dividends. Would
    > this be regarded as working in the US if I continue to be paid in the
    > UK during my stay?

The criterion isn't getting paid but performing work. You would have to
convince them that you will be putting in 0 hours, that somebody else
actually runs the business for you.

    > 2. The visa waver program can only be extended to 6 months since 911,
    > what is an advisable route to staying longer? Would we need to
    > return to the UK and go through the same process over again?

The visa waiver program cannot be extended at all beyond three months. The
visitor visa is good for a period that is decided upon admission to the US
at the airport. Usual admission period is 6 months, although there have
been persistent rumors that some airports now only grant 30 days.

Regardless of which it is, you can file for an extension of status after
you arrive (don't do it too soon, closer to the expiration of your stay is
better). As long as you can show that you plan to return, BCIS usually
approves one extension. A second one is more difficult to get.

    > 3. We are hoping to base our stay in the US in the San Francisco area,
    > allowing us to travel more easily up and down the west coast. Renting
    > an apartment seems to be the cheapest option for accommodation.
    > However after reading through the posts on this forum, I can see that
    > not possessing a SSN could potentially cause us problems with credit
    > checks. Has anyone got a solution that might overcome this?

It depends. Many landlords don't bother with credit checks, only in larger
complexes would they be interested. If they do ask, tell them the truth.
In particular in San Francisco, they are likely to be quite accommodating
because the market there is relatively depressed after the dotcom crash
(it's still expensive there, though!)

As an aside, if your plans include travelling up and down the west coast,
I would actually consider northern California or Oregon as your "home
base" Either the Humboldt/Eureka area or Brookings/Bandon/Coos Bay on the
101, or Yreka/Medford/Ashland/Grants Pass on I-5. It is still very central
and probably much cheaper than San Francisco.

That said, while the US are a huge country, distances are not THAT great
if you plan on travelling all along the west coast anyway. I recently
drove Seattle-San Diego in 30 hours including rest stops. The freeway
takes you anywhere very quickly. Going north, I took one day from San
Diego to the Oregon border, then one week along the 101 through Oregon,
and finally another day from Astoria to Seattle.

So it may well make sense to consider places at both ends of the route.

--
Remember, I am strictly a layperson without any legal training. I encourage
everybody to seek competent legal counsel rather than relying on usenet
newsgroups.

Please support H.R. 539 and H.R. 832. More information at
http://www.kkeane.com/lobbyspousal-faq.shtml

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Ketchell

I'm sorry Simon I didnt mean to confuse this is an extememly confusing topic to the unitiated such as I.

We have been using a company attorney in the UK to get appropriate advice, as time has moved on i have begun to investigate the subject myself and have grown more concerned over the validity of the advice we have received to date. The members of this forum have already provided me with far more information that we have had from any other sources and your replies have been most appreciated.

Consulting the documents we have so far received I can see that you are quite correct. It was the explanation from our own attorney that confused us. The terminology on the embassy web site doesnt do a great deal to help when it makes statements such as

"In general, holiday makers traveling to the United States require valid B-2 visas. That is unless they are eligible to travel visa free under the Visa Waiver Program,"

I naturally assumed that as our appointment was in effect to extend the visa term to 6 months and that we are from a country that is elligable for the visa waiver program that it was in effect an extention (hopefully that makes some sense)

Could you clarify the term of a B2 visa, as I'm still led to believe that this is up to a maximum of 6 months. From what you say in your earlier post this can be extended up to a period of 10 years (a little in excess of our needs ;-)) Is the extention process done back in the Uk or can you extend your stay whilst still remaining overseas.

Sorry for such a long reply.....

JK

Ketchell

Thanks Ingo Pakleppa,

You posted as i was replying to Simon. Basically you have answered all my questions thanks very much. On top of that you've traveled one of my dream highways!

Just to clarify the number on the form we have just received from the embassy is the DS-156 there was also a suplimental DS-157 included in the pack. This from what i can now tell actually is a B2 visa application......its a good job this process is so clear cut or there would be hundreds of lawyers out there making a living from this ;-)

Is there anything in the interview that we should be aware of that could lead to an application being rejected? Tough one to answer i know. We're both in our early 30's so were not looking to retire just yet. I employ a full time manager for our business in the Uk, he is a qualified accountant and has worked for me for over 3 years. I also employ a further 5 people all of whom have been with me for over 2 years. As i stated earlier we have a home in the UK with a relatively small mortgage and considerable savings. Is there anything in particular that they might question about a trip of such a long duration?

JK

simon bland

The B2 Visa is normally issued as a multiple entry visa and is normally valid for 10 years.

This DOES NOT MEAN that you cancome to the States and stay for 10 years, The Visa just gives you prior approval, by the US Government, to present yourself at a port of entry, and ask to e admitted. The normal period of admission is months, although as another poster pointed out, there has been instances recently of people being admitted for as little as 30 days.

You are confusing the time you are allowed to stay as a Visa.

J. J. Farrell

"Ketchell" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Just to clarify the number on the form we have just received from the
    > embassy is the DS-156 there was also a suplimental DS-157 included in
    > the pack. This from what i can now tell actually is a B2 visa
    > application......its a good job this process is so clear cut or there
    > would be hundreds of lawyers out there making a living from this ;-)

Well ... you're doing about the easiest US visa process ...

    > Is there anything in the interview that we should be aware of that could
    > lead to an application being rejected? Tough one to answer i know.
    > We're both in our early 30's so were not looking to retire just yet. I
    > employ a full time manager for our business in the Uk, he is a qualified
    > accountant and has worked for me for over 3 years. I also employ a
    > further 5 people all of whom have been with me for over 2 years. As i
    > stated earlier we have a home in the UK with a relatively small mortgage
    > and considerable savings. Is there anything in particular that they
    > might question about a trip of such a long duration?

It could be difficult - be very well prepared. It's
commonly said to be difficult to get B-2 visas in
visa-waiver countries, as the 90 day waiver is
supposed to be long enough for a holiday.

I would take things to show that you have a 6 month
holiday planned - itinerary, names and addresses (and
invitation letters if possible) from people you plan
to visit, tentative accommodation bookings - anything
to show that it really is a holiday.

Take solid proof that you have enough money to keep you
going throughout this period. For a trip of this length,
they're likely to be suspicious that you'll want to do
casual work to keep you going, or that the aim of the
trip is to find more permanent work.

Be able to show solid ties to the UK, preferably with a
need to be back in the UK at the end of the planned trip.
Owning a business is probably a great help, especially if
there is some documented business need for you yourself
to be back in the UK shortly after the trip period ...
Proof of house ownership, close family, any ongoing
responsibilities in your community ...

In summary, anything you can think of as evidence that
this really is a holiday trip, that you will leave the
USA at the end of the trip, and that you will not be
looking for casual or permanent work. It would probably
be wise if the idea of possibly staying for longer than
6 months didn't occur to you until after you have
entered the USA. If it does occur to you while you're
there, you can apply for an extension. You'll then be
able to stay until the application is decided even if
they refuse - it normally takes a few months for them
to give a decision.

I wouldn't get your heart set on this. Be prepared to be
refused a visa, and be aware that having a visa doesn't
guarantee anything. It's the immigration inspector at
the Port of Entry who decides whether or not to let you
in, and for how long (so take your proofs with you on
the trip - at this point, return tickets and accommodation
bookings would give further proof). I believe there's a
policy that if they let you in at all on a B-2, it should
be for 6 months - but there are persistent rumours of
people being admitted only for shorter periods than this.
You're unlikely to have much trouble at Port of Entry,
but it is possible.

Good Luck, and enjoy the trip!

Ingo Pakleppa

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 21:09:09 +0000, Ketchell wrote:

    > Hi Simon,
    >
    > Thanks for the feedback. Our embassy appointment is for the purpose of
    > extending the standard visa waiver period from 3 to 6 months, this has
    > to be done in person.
    >
    > I was'nt aware that the B1/B2 could be suitable for out purposes. I've
    > been advised that this would only be appropriate for those seeking to
    > establish a business premises in the US prior to obtaining an L1.

There is a misunderstanding here. B1/B2 has a slash in it because it
actually refers to two separate categories. B1 is for business visitors
(the situation that you describe is one situation that could justify a
B-1), while B-2 is for visitors for pleasure. Please see my FAQ for a full
list of all non-immigrant categories.

Also, to add to the confusion, people who enter the US on visa waiver are
also considered either B-1 or B-2, with the additional restriction that
the stay is limited to 90 days (and a few other restrictions). The reason
it is called visa waiver is that the requirement for having a B-1 or B-2
visa is waived.

What the consulate would give you is a B-2 visa that allows you to enter
the US in B-2 status, but without the additional restrictions usually
imposed on visa waiver B-2s.

Usually, consulates won't issue a B-2, but rather a visa that is good for
travel in both B-1 and B-2 status. This is why the two are often mentioned
with the slash in between.

There is a catch here: UK citizens are eligible for B-2 status without a
visa. You are asking for a visa anyway to get around the restrictions. The
US consulate frequently denies such requests, reasoning that if somebody
can afford to be on vacation for such a long time, he may not plan to
return at all, but rather retire in the USA.

--
Remember, I am strictly a layperson without any legal training. I encourage
everybody to seek competent legal counsel rather than relying on usenet
newsgroups.

Please support H.R. 539 and H.R. 832. More information at
http://www.kkeane.com/lobbyspousal-faq.shtml

Please visit my new FAQ at http://www.kkeane.com (always under construction)

My email address in usenet posts is now invalid for spam protection. See
my Web site for information on how to contact me.

Please feel free to enjoy some of my photographs at my new Web site
http://www.ingopakleppa.com ! Comments are welcome.

Ingo Pakleppa

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 21:59:38 +0000, Ketchell wrote:


    > Thanks Ingo Pakleppa,
    >
    >
    >
    > You posted as i was replying to Simon. Basically you have answered all
    > my questions thanks very much. On top of that you've traveled one of my
    > dream highways!

Not only that, I actually live within walking distance of the 101.

    > Just to clarify the number on the form we have just received from the
    > embassy is the DS-156 there was also a suplimental DS-157 included in
    > the pack. This from what i can now tell actually is a B2 visa
    > application......its a good job this process is so clear cut or there
    > would be hundreds of lawyers out there making a living from this ;-)
    > Is there anything in the interview that we should be aware of that could
    > lead to an application being rejected? Tough one to answer i know.
    > We're both in our early 30's so were not looking to retire just yet. I
    > employ a full time manager for our business in the Uk, he is a qualified
    > accountant and has worked for me for over 3 years. I also employ a
    > further 5 people all of whom have been with me for over 2 years. As i
    > stated earlier we have a home in the UK with a relatively small mortgage
    > and considerable savings. Is there anything in particular that they
    > might question about a trip of such a long duration?

Yes, they will question plenty of things. Being young does not preclude
retiring, and in some ways may make things worse. Young people tend to be
more flexible and more likely to pack up and move to a new home.

J.J. Farrell already gave you some excellent pointers.

--
Remember, I am strictly a layperson without any legal training. I encourage
everybody to seek competent legal counsel rather than relying on usenet
newsgroups.

Please support H.R. 539 and H.R. 832. More information at
http://www.kkeane.com/lobbyspousal-faq.shtml

Please visit my new FAQ at http://www.kkeane.com (always under construction)

My email address in usenet posts is now invalid for spam protection. See
my Web site for information on how to contact me.

Please feel free to enjoy some of my photographs at my new Web site
http://www.ingopakleppa.com ! Comments are welcome.

Ketchell

Thanks again guys,

So in conclusion if I understand you all correctly -

If I have no money in my bank account then I could be a risk to them because I may seek temporary employment during my visit

If I have money in my bank account then I could be a risk to them because I may be looking to retire in the US during my visit.

If and when I get a visa granted, after an interview at the embassy, some guy on passport control duty on the day of arrival can say " I don't like the look of you" and turn me away!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Over the past 4 years I've been to the states for visits up to 1 month at a time and never experienced a single problem on ports of entry. My most recent trip was only 2 weeks ago. More importantly the visa waiver (green form they clip into your passport on arrival) has on several occasions since September 11th not even been removed from my passport.

In fact to highlight this further, after travelling to DC last August I again didn't have my green stub removed from my passport. Travelling out this time I noticed that it was still in my passport. Surely the system if working correctly would flag me up as still being in the US on my previous visit. As I hadn't been, for want of a better word, logged out of the country the previous year.

I can understand the issue with monitoring immigration to any country but people do travel overseas for prolonged periods of time. This does not make them a flight risk from immigration authorities.

Given my previous experience of US customs I have perhaps treated the issue of visas for this trip too matter of fact.

JK

Ingo Pakleppa

On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 08:38:36 +0000, Ketchell wrote:


    > Thanks again guys,
    >
    > So in conclusion if I understand you all correctly -
    >
    > If I have no money in my bank account then I could be a risk to them
    > because I may seek temporary employment during my visit

Yes.

    > If I have money in my bank account then I could be a risk to them
    > because I may be looking to retire in the US during my visit.

Yes.

    > If and when I get a visa granted, after an interview at the embassy,
    > some guy on passport control duty on the day of arrival can say " I
    > don't like the look of you" and turn me away!

Yes. This fairly rare, especially with a visa, though. Purpose of getting
a visa is to relieve the immigration officer from having to recheck the
facts of your case.

BTW, embassies don't issue visas, consulates do (in London, they are in
the same building, though).

    > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    > ------------
    >
    > Over the past 4 years I've been to the states for visits up to 1 month
    > at a time and never experienced a single problem on ports of entry. My
    > most recent trip was only 2 weeks ago. More importantly the visa waiver
    > (green form they clip into your passport on arrival) has on several
    > occasions since September 11th not even been removed from my passport.

U-Oh. Be sure to mention that when you apply for the new visa at the
consulate, and hand them the I-94s. Also, bring the old boarding passes
and other evidence that you really left the USA (hint: frequent flyer
records may help a great deal!) Otherwise, they may tell you that you are
still illegally in the USA!

    > In fact to highlight this further, after travelling to DC last August I
    > again didn't have my green stub removed from my passport. Travelling
    > out this time I noticed that it was still in my passport. Surely the
    > system if working correctly would flag me up as still being in the US on
    > my previous visit. As I hadn't been, for want of a better word, logged
    > out of the country the previous year.

Exactly right.

    > I can understand the issue with monitoring immigration to any country
    > but people do travel overseas for prolonged periods of time. This does
    > not make them a flight risk from immigration authorities.

Sigh. You are right. US immigration law was written in the 1950s, when
such travel was far more tedious and expensive. It needs to catch up with
modern times!

    > Given my previous experience of US customs I have perhaps treated the
    > issue of visas for this trip too matter of fact.

Probably. This is easy to do if you don't understand the why's and how's
of how the law works.

--
Remember, I am strictly a layperson without any legal training. I encourage
everybody to seek competent legal counsel rather than relying on usenet
newsgroups.

Please support H.R. 539 and H.R. 832. More information at
http://www.kkeane.com/lobbyspousal-faq.shtml

Please visit my new FAQ at http://www.kkeane.com (always under construction)

My email address in usenet posts is now invalid for spam protection. See
my Web site for information on how to contact me.

Please feel free to enjoy some of my photographs at my new Web site
http://www.ingopakleppa.com ! Comments are welcome.

meauxna

JK,
You are getting good help on the visa end from people in the know (yay Ingo & Simon).

As a West Coast (Portland Oregon) resident myself, I have a tip for you (your trip sounds faboo, btw). Check out a site called www.craigslist.org for a great community of people, particularly in the housing wanted/available sections. I've rented my house out while traveling (often called a sublet or similar), sometimes fully furnished, sometimes not, for periods of 6 months and up. There are many people in circumstances similar to yours and finding housing without a SS# should not be a problem. My last prospects from the SanFran area were housesitting for a woman aborad for a year & I'm confident you'll find some interesting houses/apartments out there. Hint: get photos!

Ingo's aside about secondary markets is a good thought. Keep in mind that the climate will vary *alot* along the West Coast and think about what urban ammenities you might require.

Have a great trip!

Ketchell

Thanks for the advice. Its all been very useful to a beginner in this subject.

I'm not a new user to the internet however and I still cant help but feel most of the tone of this forum is quite negative. Something not that unusual with many online communities.

I appreciate that there is a lot of advice here to be had, and that there are a lot of people out there having to deal with some very demanding issues relating to this subject. But I cant help but wonder how many thousands of travellers don’t face any problem at all? Where are their postings?

I think potential immigrants and for that matter none immigrants should keep an open mind and take as much of a balanced view about these posting as they can. You might also want to keep in mind the amount of money that is being made in this market for what is termed “advice�.