Excellent article about immigration in current issue of The
Oct 31st 2003, 4:14 am
#31
Forum Regular
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 227
Re: Excellent article about immigration in current issue of The Economist
Blenky16,
My point was not that there aren't qualified Indians out there. There are. I had mentioned 1 of my friend in my previous post. He works for Motorola. That guys credentials are genuine and he is very smart.
I was talking about the other kind of Indians who get into the U.S. by cheating and the rest of us have to suffer for that.
We all acknowledge smart Indians ... Engineers, Doctors, some lawyers, etc. We are just talking about the other half.
THAT IS NOT RACISM. Its looking at the facts. I wish I had the time to provide you the stats on this other half that I am talking about. But, I know they exist, because I know such ppl.
Nevertheless, no matter how insignificantly small the stats on this other half is (and I don't think the stats would so insignificantly small), it still should be considered a problem.
My point was not that there aren't qualified Indians out there. There are. I had mentioned 1 of my friend in my previous post. He works for Motorola. That guys credentials are genuine and he is very smart.
I was talking about the other kind of Indians who get into the U.S. by cheating and the rest of us have to suffer for that.
We all acknowledge smart Indians ... Engineers, Doctors, some lawyers, etc. We are just talking about the other half.
THAT IS NOT RACISM. Its looking at the facts. I wish I had the time to provide you the stats on this other half that I am talking about. But, I know they exist, because I know such ppl.
Nevertheless, no matter how insignificantly small the stats on this other half is (and I don't think the stats would so insignificantly small), it still should be considered a problem.
Oct 31st 2003, 4:24 am
#32
WTF?
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: Homeostasis
Posts: 79,449
Re: Excellent article about immigration in current issue of The Economist
Goldrush,
I know what you're saying. The reason this is so sensitive is because you are singling out Indians (I know you are Indian and not a racist.) The truth is there are immigrants from a lot of countries that are cheating to get in the U.S. You are just extremely aware of the Indians that do it because you are part of the Indian community. At different times I've read posts on this forum about Ukranian scammers, Mexican scammers, Indian scammers ....... and the list goes on. Truthfully, most impoverished countries contribute their fair share of problem-child immigrants. I think that most people on this forum know the difference and we don't punish the "good" for what the "bad" have done.
Leslie
I know what you're saying. The reason this is so sensitive is because you are singling out Indians (I know you are Indian and not a racist.) The truth is there are immigrants from a lot of countries that are cheating to get in the U.S. You are just extremely aware of the Indians that do it because you are part of the Indian community. At different times I've read posts on this forum about Ukranian scammers, Mexican scammers, Indian scammers ....... and the list goes on. Truthfully, most impoverished countries contribute their fair share of problem-child immigrants. I think that most people on this forum know the difference and we don't punish the "good" for what the "bad" have done.
Leslie
Originally posted by goldrush
Blenky16,
My point was not that there aren't qualified Indians out there. There are. I had mentioned 1 of my friend in my previous post. He works for Motorola. That guys credentials are genuine and he is very smart.
I was talking about the other kind of Indians who get into the U.S. by cheating and the rest of us have to suffer for that.
We all acknowledge smart Indians ... Engineers, Doctors, some lawyers, etc. We are just talking about the other half.
THAT IS NOT RACISM. Its looking at the facts. I wish I had the time to provide you the stats on this other half that I am talking about. But, I know they exist, because I know such ppl.
Nevertheless, no matter how insignificantly small the stats on this other half is (and I don't think the stats would so insignificantly small), it still should be considered a problem.
Blenky16,
My point was not that there aren't qualified Indians out there. There are. I had mentioned 1 of my friend in my previous post. He works for Motorola. That guys credentials are genuine and he is very smart.
I was talking about the other kind of Indians who get into the U.S. by cheating and the rest of us have to suffer for that.
We all acknowledge smart Indians ... Engineers, Doctors, some lawyers, etc. We are just talking about the other half.
THAT IS NOT RACISM. Its looking at the facts. I wish I had the time to provide you the stats on this other half that I am talking about. But, I know they exist, because I know such ppl.
Nevertheless, no matter how insignificantly small the stats on this other half is (and I don't think the stats would so insignificantly small), it still should be considered a problem.
Oct 31st 2003, 4:25 am
#33
Forum Regular
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 126
Re: Excellent article about immigration in current issue of The Economist
Originally posted by goldrush
Blenky16,
My point was not that there aren't qualified Indians out there. There are. I had mentioned 1 of my friend in my previous post. He works for Motorola. That guys credentials are genuine and he is very smart.
I was talking about the other kind of Indians who get into the U.S. by cheating and the rest of us have to suffer for that.
We all acknowledge smart Indians ... Engineers, Doctors, some lawyers, etc. We are just talking about the other half.
THAT IS NOT RACISM. Its looking at the facts. I wish I had the time to provide you the stats on this other half that I am talking about. But, I know they exist, because I know such ppl.
Nevertheless, no matter how insignificantly small the stats on this other half is (and I don't think the stats would so insignificantly small), it still should be considered a problem.
Blenky16,
My point was not that there aren't qualified Indians out there. There are. I had mentioned 1 of my friend in my previous post. He works for Motorola. That guys credentials are genuine and he is very smart.
I was talking about the other kind of Indians who get into the U.S. by cheating and the rest of us have to suffer for that.
We all acknowledge smart Indians ... Engineers, Doctors, some lawyers, etc. We are just talking about the other half.
THAT IS NOT RACISM. Its looking at the facts. I wish I had the time to provide you the stats on this other half that I am talking about. But, I know they exist, because I know such ppl.
Nevertheless, no matter how insignificantly small the stats on this other half is (and I don't think the stats would so insignificantly small), it still should be considered a problem.
This used to bug me a lot and thats why I rarely talk to Indians these days.
Hey... just my $0.02.
Cheers,
Sean
Oct 31st 2003, 4:29 am
#34
Forum Regular
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 227
Re: Excellent article about immigration in current issue of The Economist
Originally posted by Leslie66
Goldrush,
I know what you're saying. The reason this is so sensitive is because you are singling out Indians (I know you are Indian and not a racist.) The truth is there are immigrants from a lot of countries that are cheating to get in the U.S. You are just extremely aware of the Indians that do it because you are part of the Indian community. At different times I've read posts on this forum about Ukranian scammers, Mexican scammers, Indian scammers ....... and the list goes on. Truthfully, most impoverished countries contribute their fair share of problem-child immigrants. I think that most people on this forum know the difference and we don't punish the "good" for what the "bad" have done.
Leslie
Goldrush,
I know what you're saying. The reason this is so sensitive is because you are singling out Indians (I know you are Indian and not a racist.) The truth is there are immigrants from a lot of countries that are cheating to get in the U.S. You are just extremely aware of the Indians that do it because you are part of the Indian community. At different times I've read posts on this forum about Ukranian scammers, Mexican scammers, Indian scammers ....... and the list goes on. Truthfully, most impoverished countries contribute their fair share of problem-child immigrants. I think that most people on this forum know the difference and we don't punish the "good" for what the "bad" have done.
Leslie
Oct 31st 2003, 4:33 am
#35
K1 via London
Joined: Sep 2003
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 1,959
Re: Excellent article about immigration in current issue of The Economist
Originally posted by blenky16
but of course, it is the first thing us spoiled North Americans do, point the finger to someone else.
but of course, it is the first thing us spoiled North Americans do, point the finger to someone else.
Oct 31st 2003, 4:33 am
#36
Forum Regular
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 227
Re: Excellent article about immigration in current issue of The Economist
Originally posted by blenky16
Hmmm.. sounds a bit racial to lump all Indians into your "do not talk to" category just because there are a small percentage of individuals who lie about their credentials. What about those that live here in the US (or Canada) for that matter that have outright lies on their resume? Don't think that happens? I have only ever been asked once to submit my transcript (and yes, I hand it over in person as well), and all other times, they have taken my word for it. I know so many people who are born and raised here that do the same thing. It's not a problem with just Indians, or any particular race, nor should you exclude the fact that some of your "home breed" friends do it as well. Is it right? No. Not for a second, it is completely unethical. However it is up to the companies to make that distinction and correct it. But if companies so choose to move a portion of their business to another country, and it doesn't affect the quality of the work, then can you honestly say you blame them??!! Please, like I said, many North Americans don't live within their means, and their financial woes are only due to themselves, but of course, it is the first thing us spoiled North Americans do, point the finger to someone else.
Hey... just my $0.02.
Cheers,
Sean
Hmmm.. sounds a bit racial to lump all Indians into your "do not talk to" category just because there are a small percentage of individuals who lie about their credentials. What about those that live here in the US (or Canada) for that matter that have outright lies on their resume? Don't think that happens? I have only ever been asked once to submit my transcript (and yes, I hand it over in person as well), and all other times, they have taken my word for it. I know so many people who are born and raised here that do the same thing. It's not a problem with just Indians, or any particular race, nor should you exclude the fact that some of your "home breed" friends do it as well. Is it right? No. Not for a second, it is completely unethical. However it is up to the companies to make that distinction and correct it. But if companies so choose to move a portion of their business to another country, and it doesn't affect the quality of the work, then can you honestly say you blame them??!! Please, like I said, many North Americans don't live within their means, and their financial woes are only due to themselves, but of course, it is the first thing us spoiled North Americans do, point the finger to someone else.
Hey... just my $0.02.
Cheers,
Sean
Do you think its ok to invite trouble from outside the borders on the pretext that we ALREADY have trouble within our borders?
So, since we have Americans and Canadians already doing a lot of cheating, it won't make any difference if we had a few more cheaters come-in and do their thing, right?
I agree with you that everyone cheats ... regardless of race or nationality. But, since I am an Indian American, I focus on Indians.
I hope no hard feelings. :-)
Oct 31st 2003, 4:35 am
#37
Forum Regular
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 126
Re: Excellent article about immigration in current issue of The Economist
Originally posted by Steffi
It's ALWAYS easier to point your finger at others...not just for Americans.
It's ALWAYS easier to point your finger at others...not just for Americans.
Oct 31st 2003, 4:37 am
#38
K1 via London
Joined: Sep 2003
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 1,959
Re: Excellent article about immigration in current issue of The Economist
Originally posted by blenky16
Just because it's easy to do doesn't make it right
Just because it's easy to do doesn't make it right
Oct 31st 2003, 4:45 am
#39
WTF?
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: Homeostasis
Posts: 79,449
Re: Excellent article about immigration in current issue of The Economist
Hey, both of you, speak for yourselves. 
I personally don't blame immigrants or other countries for any of my problems. It's called taking responsibility.
Leslie
I personally don't blame immigrants or other countries for any of my problems. It's called taking responsibility.Leslie
Originally posted by Steffi
Nope, it definitely isn't right. I'm just pointing out that it's the easy way out to blame others over yourself, right?
Nope, it definitely isn't right. I'm just pointing out that it's the easy way out to blame others over yourself, right?
Oct 31st 2003, 4:50 am
#40
Forum Regular
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 126
Re: Excellent article about immigration in current issue of The Economist
Originally posted by goldrush
Sean,
Do you think its ok to invite trouble from outside the borders on the pretext that we ALREADY have trouble within our borders?
So, since we have Americans and Canadians already doing a lot of cheating, it won't make any difference if we had a few more cheaters come-in and do their thing, right?
I agree with you that everyone cheats ... regardless of race or nationality. But, since I am an Indian American, I focus on Indians.
I hope no hard feelings. :-)
Sean,
Do you think its ok to invite trouble from outside the borders on the pretext that we ALREADY have trouble within our borders?
So, since we have Americans and Canadians already doing a lot of cheating, it won't make any difference if we had a few more cheaters come-in and do their thing, right?
I agree with you that everyone cheats ... regardless of race or nationality. But, since I am an Indian American, I focus on Indians.
I hope no hard feelings. :-)
Motorola recently spun-off their semiconductors sector. One of their biggest project - Optimization project - will now be undertaken by India. That sucks, we are as smart or smarter than Indians.
Your statement that we are as smart or smarter than Indians was the one that kinda got to me... that's a pretty big blanket statement that is hard to swallow. Where is the basis for this information? Don't get me wrong, I love the US and Canada, and we produce some great individuals, but the reality is, there are many other countries in the world that produce just as smart individuals.
The other issue I took too was also Supernav's comment about (sorry it had nothing to do with you on this part, but more the way the conversation was going in general)....
It has nothing to do with them being "expensive".
Indians don't have $80,000 college bills for their 4 years of education for their degree. Most indian programmers go through 4 month crash courses and start writing VB code right away with no credit card bills to pay. And of course "pad" their resumes when applying for US visas (oh don't even try to argue this fact).
Indians don't have $400,000 house mortgages.
Indians don't have 35% income tax and 8% state tax.
Most indians don't have health care.
Most indians don't pay $1.87 for gas, and spend 1 hour+ each day commuting.
Most indians don't have to buy $35,000 cars and $120 ins payment for their vehicles.
People in these countries live in tiny villages, food is cheap, utility bills are cheap, education is cheap and have 10% the monthly cost of living Americans have.
If you threw those same Indians into middle of Missouri -- trust me -- they woudln't be able to survive on $3/day.
Indians don't have $80,000 college bills for their 4 years of education for their degree. Most indian programmers go through 4 month crash courses and start writing VB code right away with no credit card bills to pay. And of course "pad" their resumes when applying for US visas (oh don't even try to argue this fact).
Indians don't have $400,000 house mortgages.
Indians don't have 35% income tax and 8% state tax.
Most indians don't have health care.
Most indians don't pay $1.87 for gas, and spend 1 hour+ each day commuting.
Most indians don't have to buy $35,000 cars and $120 ins payment for their vehicles.
People in these countries live in tiny villages, food is cheap, utility bills are cheap, education is cheap and have 10% the monthly cost of living Americans have.
If you threw those same Indians into middle of Missouri -- trust me -- they woudln't be able to survive on $3/day.
Again, no hard feelings, just try not to make blanket statements about a race, even if you are apart of that race, it doesn't make it any more right or acceptable.
Cheers,
Sean
Oct 31st 2003, 4:53 am
#41
Forum Regular
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 126
Re: Excellent article about immigration in current issue of The Economist
Originally posted by Leslie66
Hey, both of you, speak for yourselves. I personally don't blame immigrants or other countries for any of my problems. It's called taking responsibility.
Leslie
Hey, both of you, speak for yourselves.
I personally don't blame immigrants or other countries for any of my problems. It's called taking responsibility.Leslie
Amen to that. My mess of a life is my responsibility... I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth... I have to earn it!!!
Cheers and Happy Halloween,
Sean
Oct 31st 2003, 5:12 am
#42
K1 via London
Joined: Sep 2003
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 1,959
Re: Excellent article about immigration in current issue of The Economist
Originally posted by Leslie66
Hey, both of you, speak for yourselves. I personally don't blame immigrants or other countries for any of my problems. It's called taking responsibility.
Leslie
Hey, both of you, speak for yourselves.
I personally don't blame immigrants or other countries for any of my problems. It's called taking responsibility.Leslie
I think it must just be a human survival method. Get the heat off yourself, hehe.
Oct 31st 2003, 5:44 am
#43
Account Closed
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 16,266
Re: Excellent article about immigration in current issue of The Economist
Originally posted by goldrush
Blenky16,
My point was not that there aren't qualified Indians out there. There are. I had mentioned 1 of my friend in my previous post. He works for Motorola. That guys credentials are genuine and he is very smart.
I was talking about the other kind of Indians who get into the U.S. by cheating and the rest of us have to suffer for that.
We all acknowledge smart Indians ... Engineers, Doctors, some lawyers, etc. We are just talking about the other half.
THAT IS NOT RACISM. Its looking at the facts. I wish I had the time to provide you the stats on this other half that I am talking about. But, I know they exist, because I know such ppl.
Nevertheless, no matter how insignificantly small the stats on this other half is (and I don't think the stats would so insignificantly small), it still should be considered a problem.
Blenky16,
My point was not that there aren't qualified Indians out there. There are. I had mentioned 1 of my friend in my previous post. He works for Motorola. That guys credentials are genuine and he is very smart.
I was talking about the other kind of Indians who get into the U.S. by cheating and the rest of us have to suffer for that.
We all acknowledge smart Indians ... Engineers, Doctors, some lawyers, etc. We are just talking about the other half.
THAT IS NOT RACISM. Its looking at the facts. I wish I had the time to provide you the stats on this other half that I am talking about. But, I know they exist, because I know such ppl.
Nevertheless, no matter how insignificantly small the stats on this other half is (and I don't think the stats would so insignificantly small), it still should be considered a problem.
Take it easy -- I've noted over the years that it is quite common for people, including legislator to conflate illegal conduct in violation of the law with "loopholes" in the law.
The "sham" marriages are not the result of any "loophole" in the law, they are a violation of the law -- but they get percieved as being "loopholes" when they are no such thing.
And believe, I know a "loophole" when I see one -- I'm quite good a finding them and driving a truck right through.
Oct 31st 2003, 5:46 am
#44
WTF?
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: Homeostasis
Posts: 79,449
Re: Excellent article about immigration in current issue of The Economist
HEE HEE HEE 
Originally posted by Folinskyinla
Hi:
Take it easy -- I've noted over the years that it is quite common for people, including legislator to conflate illegal conduct in violation of the law with "loopholes" in the law.
The "sham" marriages are not the result of any "loophole" in the law, they are a violation of the law -- but they get percieved as being "loopholes" when they are no such thing.
And believe, I know a "loophole" when I see one -- I'm quite good a finding them and driving a truck right through.
Hi:
Take it easy -- I've noted over the years that it is quite common for people, including legislator to conflate illegal conduct in violation of the law with "loopholes" in the law.
The "sham" marriages are not the result of any "loophole" in the law, they are a violation of the law -- but they get percieved as being "loopholes" when they are no such thing.
And believe, I know a "loophole" when I see one -- I'm quite good a finding them and driving a truck right through.
Oct 31st 2003, 5:46 am
#45
K1 via London
Joined: Sep 2003
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 1,959
Re: Excellent article about immigration in current issue of The Economist
Originally posted by Folinskyinla
Hi:
Take it easy -- I've noted over the years that it is quite common for people, including legislator to conflate illegal conduct in violation of the law with "loopholes" in the law.
The "sham" marriages are not the result of any "loophole" in the law, they are a violation of the law -- but they get percieved as being "loopholes" when they are no such thing.
And believe, I know a "loophole" when I see one -- I'm quite good a finding them and driving a truck right through.
Hi:
Take it easy -- I've noted over the years that it is quite common for people, including legislator to conflate illegal conduct in violation of the law with "loopholes" in the law.
The "sham" marriages are not the result of any "loophole" in the law, they are a violation of the law -- but they get percieved as being "loopholes" when they are no such thing.
And believe, I know a "loophole" when I see one -- I'm quite good a finding them and driving a truck right through.
