E2 Visa for USA - Help
 

Hello, so I am new to this forum & very glad I have found it as I have so many questions :)

First of I am looking into getting an E2 business visa to relocate my business to Florida.

I have been quoted £6200 legal fees from lawyers, which is ridiculous! So I have decided I want to try and tackle the application myself.

1st question - has anyone done this themselves? Could anyone provide any tips?

2nd question

This is the tricky part

My business is already trading - its an ecommerce womens fashion store, all the stock has been bought & website and its currently trading here in the UK. I wish to move this all to the USA - the lawyer I spoke to says i would need to move all the stock and domain etc to the USA before I apply for the VISA - however my problem is, if I do this, we wont be able to trade / operate the website during this time?

Is there a workaround here? Like I say all money has been invested and business is now operational - it can be moved as soon as visa is approved, but not before as it means the business will not be "operational"

3rd question - the lawyer I spoke with says I need to secure a business premises before I apply for the visa.

HOWEVER our idea was to (once visa approved) rent a house & work out of the spare room, until we build the business up. Is this something that can be done? if so how would I work this into the visa application?

4th question - bank accounts, tax etc
Again lawyer said we need all of this pre applying for visa
HOWEVER - cant register for tax without a social security number - cant register for social security without a visa? Bank account - again I need a visa for it?

Any advice???

Final question -

Structure of the application

I have spoken to the USA Embassy in London & they have said when I apply,

"formatting standards for processing. The documents required to apply and qualify for status as a NIV E-2 treaty visa investor are listed on our website. Applicants are advised to retain the services of a qualified legal professional who specializes in US immigration law for assistance. The website instructions stipulates the exact documents which are required and the material must be organized in the exact order listed under the Sections A-G"

Has anyone had experience of this? and any advice?

Again thanks for any advice and help anyone can provide

All my money has been invested into the business + what money I have now is for the relocation / flights etc - so I am loathed to spend it on lawyers, as basically it will eat into the majority of what I have left (ie I am now skint!)

Thansk

Re: E2 Visa for USA - Help
 

Why are you wishing to relocate a solely online e-commerce business to the USA? :unsure:

Re: E2 Visa for USA - Help
 

£6,200 of lawyers fees sounds pretty cheap, I am surprised it isn't more. Then you'll need a business plan and budget, so accountant fees would be on top.

Honestly this sounds like a business you would like to move to the US, rather than one that needs to be in the US, so IMO is likely to be an uphill struggle for a visa, not to mention that "subsistence businesses" are specifically prohibited. So your plan to keep the stock in a house and work from there sounds like a tiny business and IMO not likely to be approved for an E-2. I am not even certain that the visa would allow that (I know an L-1 visa requires you to have suitable business premises), but I know that you will have issues with the local council and/or your landlord and/or insurers if you try to run a retail business out of a residential home.

A common rule of thumb for an E-2 is for you to invest $200k in the business, with money for housing, a car, and to cover the period of while the business is starting to generate profits on top of that. If you aren't talking about $400k altogether then you've got a pretty bare-bones business.

Re: E2 Visa for USA - Help
 

I would not want to do a 1st application based on the business model you have suggested myself for an E2! How many staff will you employ , what does your business plan look like etc?

I would advise doing as advised and renting an office for the least amount of time...you will need a lease and be able to show payments.

You should be able to get an EIN number for the business once the LLC is set up.

Re: E2 Visa for USA - Help
 

Thanks for the replies :)

The business would do much better in the USA than in the UK ; bigger market, quicker access and more access to brands and trade shows, bloggers, PR etc , there is a lot more potential over there for it.

The business as it stands now is worth £100,000 - the domain can be transferred to the USA

Its just the stock issue - as we need it here to trade with

We know where we want to stay , we only wanted to operate from home for the 1st 2-3 months allowing us to suss out places to work from. Is this something that would be a possibility?

I have a 5 year business plan, projections etc all made up

I have £10,000 in the bank for the relocation

Re: E2 Visa for USA - Help
 

The business over 5 years aims to employ 10 people

Re: E2 Visa for USA - Help
 

If stock were your only issue, and I am not sure that it is, then I would recommend buying additional stock to hold in the US and sell while your UK stock is being shipped over.

You're aware that you'll have to pay import duties on the stock you import to the US, I presume. :unsure:

Re: E2 Visa for USA - Help
 

Hate to say it but unless you have a credit history here then the money you have in the bank ain't gonna cut it!

Medical fees, huge deposits as no credit history for rent, car insurance and utilities, all the business costs you have in setting up here

Re: E2 Visa for USA - Help
 

As an online business isn't the US market already accessible?

For trade shows i'm fairly sure you can attend these on the VWP.

Re: E2 Visa for USA - Help
 

I'm no expert but it seems to me that attempting to do this on such a shoestring may not be a wise idea.

Or rather, it's very high risk without some funds, for problems and factors outside of your control.

Re: E2 Visa for USA - Help
 

Why do you feel that Florida is the appropriate venue for your business?

Re: E2 Visa for USA - Help
 

But it's all on line, so makes no difference where the physical business is located, unless you're thinking of opening an actual retail store. As for trade shows, meeting with potential vendors or clients, promoting the business, that can all be done on a short VWP visit.

The VWP allows you to come over for up to 90 days at a time to suss out places to work from.

I'm not a business owner or E-2 visa holder, but that doesn't sound like enough to me. Add one more zero and then maybe.

Rene

Re: E2 Visa for USA - Help
 

But they can't operate their online biz while in the US on the VWP can they Rene?

Re: E2 Visa for USA - Help
 

No, they cannot. They can just come to either visit a trade show or run a booth at a trade show, that sort of thing. Meet with potential clients or vendors...etc. But not operate the online biz because that's their regular work back home.

Rene

Re: E2 Visa for USA - Help
 

Ten people is going to be a minimum of $500,000 of payroll costs. Does your business plan really anticipate sufficient sales to support that sort of overhead? You'd have to be talking $5+million of gross sales to generate enough revenue to cover that, plus other overheads.

Re: E2 Visa for USA - Help
 

GBP100k of stock would take up a lot of space. I assume that most of the value is the stock, does not sound like there is much else.

Most Residential locations do not allow such business activities.

My first thought was that the legal fee sounds reasonable and my second is that you do not have much if anything to see you through, and I assume the Consulate will think the same.

I am sure there are E Commerce businesses that would match an E2, this does not sound one of them.

Re: E2 Visa for USA - Help
 

I've just been back and checked, it's "women's fashions", which is stock with a very short shelf life - if it ain't sold in two months it won't be worth much.

The world of e-commerce is littered with businesses that grew rapidly when they chanced upon some particular niche, and then faded just as rapidly when the fad died or mainstream retailers ripped off were inspired by the product the small on-line retailer was selling.

Re: E2 Visa for USA - Help
 

The Flickr site needs some proofreading for spelling and punctuation errors! That said, her web site already seems to convert between $, £, and €, so I'm not sure why she'd need to transfer to a US-based domain. It'd be easier to simply register a new domain and link the two together.

@Susy1206 - From what you've written, a US-based business isn't viable at this point in time. You might think it is, and you might want it to be - but we have seen similar posts from other members with a small sum of money available... and you're almost certainly heading for financial ruin if you continue with your present strategy.

Do yourself a favor... do some research into the US market before you get yourself into trouble.

Ian

Re: E2 Visa for USA - Help
 

It's great to hear your enthusiasm about wanting to get to the USA and can understand it may have certain benefits for the profitability of your current business, but honestly it seems unrealistic from the info that you have given so far. We have recently moved to Southern California on an E-2 Visa and by no means had an endless budget, but unless you know the ins and out of visa applications, E2 requirements and an understanding of what they are looking for in your application i would HIGHLY recommend a lawyer. Another bit of advice - whatever you've budgeted for expenses - DOUBLE it! Theres a lot of initial outlay and for effectively a start up business, you need reserves.. especially here in SoCal where it feels like you're haemorrhaging money.

As another user has pointed out £6-7k isn't that bad if the lawyer is prepared to file for you and prepare the application fully. This is roughly what we paid for our lawyer.

Some other points i have noted from your application that may be worth clarifying so we can help you:
1- Your UK business - its really irrelevant what you've already invested in your UK business. That money was invested to establish your UK business, NOT your US business
2- You would need to set up a US business (LLC is the most common structure for small-mid size businesses) - this is what you would be applying for the visa for, to run the US business. You cant get an E2 visa for a UK company
3- You would need to invest substantial funds into the US side of your business to satisfy the investment requirement - ie. lease for business premises/storage facility for stock/ stock itself/ shipping of current stock/limited travel expenses
4 - You cannot submit your business premise as your primary residence - the whole point is that the business isnt a 'work from home' position (If they did, I imagine anyone doing those silly pyramid schemes like Herbalife etc would just up sticks and move to the US)
5- Your previous experience in the field in the UK WILL help you as you're not just setting up a random business but honestly your biggest battle is going to be showing a feasible business plan (relating the specific area in the US you want to be in) and satisfying the investment requirement - there is an unspoken 'rule' of 100k investment into the business - ours was a little less than this but with that, your business plan HAS to be watertight and realistic.
6- You NEED a US bank account - this can be done with a short trip to the US after establishing your LLC as the business will be given effectively its own SS code - an EIN.

I dont envy you, being at the start of the long journey that is the E2 visa, it can be a HUGE risk with lots of financial outlay that cannot guarantee success, so I would suggest your first port of call to be decide if this is really what you want and if its worth it to you - if yes - be sensible with your investment - £6000 on lawyers fees, will be nothing on the scale of things if you get your visa but can be the case of getting it or not.

If you have any questions, happy to answer anything at all! I wish there were more people out there that have been through the process that could have helped when we were doing it!

Re: E2 Visa for USA - Help
 

I am not sure why Susy thinks there is an unfulfilled demand for such "fashions" and "accessories" in the US. The web site looks like it is selling the same sort of things that about a third of the stores in pretty much any mall in the US sell.

When a lot of the mall experience is browsing the stores on a weekend, and handing over cash in exchange for instant gratification, I am sceptical that this would be a huge success and growth business in the US. :confused:

Re: E2 Visa for USA - Help
 

Looks like the kind of T-shirt business that's in every mall. But I do espy a link to Disney, so perhaps the mouse is the impetus.

Re: E2 Visa for USA - Help
 

This is Spoiled Brat?

Re: E2 Visa for USA - Help
 

A lease is required for e2, so work from home is a no no..we had to give documentary evidence of our lease.
With lack of credit, you could be asked for 6mths rent in advance, which could be anything from $1000 to $2000 per month!!! Realistically much more saving still required. I think an initial consultation with an immigration attorney is desperately needed to address the many red flags raised.

Re: E2 Visa for USA - Help
 

To answer the question of whether you need an immigration lawyer, the answer is you can do it yourself - I did and I've been on an E-2 visa for 11 years now. You need to be methodical and provide logical well thought out answers to every part of the information that they suggest. Long ago I used to be in commercial banking which helped make sure the figures and forms were all correct.
My main issue would be whether you can satisfy the embassy that you are going to employ US citizens This is what is meant about the business being more than a subsistence business. I get the impression they don't care whether the business will make you a millionaire or leave you starving on the street as long as you are providing jobs for local people.
In my case we were buying an existing business, so it was relatively easy to prove that we were going to employ local staff. We sold our house in the UK and put the money in escrow, got an offer of a mortgage from a local US bank and submitted the paperwork. Unfortunately it was just when the USA had dumped all the renewals for E2 visas onto the embassy staff so everything took much longer - 9 months instead of 9 weeks. Then a year after we got here the world went into recession.... I've never worked so hard for so little money, but loved every second of it!

Re: E2 Visa for USA - Help
 

This is just an idea, but....

Why not set up a US subsidiary and employee someone already legal to work in the US to set it all up and start operating.

If your UK operation is currently profitable and it is unlikely you will cannibalize your own sales then just leave the UK office to run.

Then once US and UK are both established transfer yourself over on an L1.


For more knowledgeable members - is this even legal??

Re: E2 Visa for USA - Help
 

Yes, it's absolutely legal. Also the US business can then sponsor a green card for the L-1A holder, making the move potentially permanent, and at that point, but not before, the UK business can be sold or closed.

Re: E2 Visa for USA - Help
 

Well that sounds like it could be a great idea!

If only the OP knew someone with a background in retail, distribution, marketing and e-commerce who in the US already with permanent residency who is looking for a new job!?

Hang on - I know someone! Me :rofl:

Re: E2 Visa for USA - Help
 

Sounds like total <snip> and I would totally ignore everything he said to you.

There's no requirement for the whole thing to be established before you apply for E-2, that's rubbish. It makes his job easier because instead of writing a business plan he can point to an existing business but typically applicants for E-2 don't have the business underway, usually that only happens if they're buying an existing business.

The key points for getting E-2 are: (a) a comprehensive business plan, on the us embassy websites they point out the key things they're looking for in it and you should also read 8 CFR 214.2(e), which are the regulations; (b) must be a "substantial" investment; and (c) cannot be a subsistence business.

Lawyers always say it's X amount of money you should invest but really it depends on the business, there's no set amount. Substantial in the context of that business, but you're not likely to get it with less than $50,000 invested.

Also lawyers say you should hire X people, there's no requirement to hire any people, but it's implied from the no "subsistence" bit.

Be aware of the fact that there's no direct pathway to being an LPR, so if your business fails, you have to leave the country, plus if you have children, they age out at 21.

Spouses of E-2 get open work authorization, so the usual trick is for the person who is likely to earn the least to be the primary applicant so the spouse can get a higher paying job.

Re: E2 Visa for USA - Help
 

I was just going to say she can do L-1A instead which is slightly less paperwork but the catch is that you cannot self-sponsor yourself on an I-140 for LPR status generally speaking. And if you could, it would make more sense to do that anyway from the beginning, i.e. EB-1 or EB-2 NIW.

In order to do it the L-1A way she would have to have senior staff who could sponsor her. Otherwise, once the L-1A runs out, you have to leave, whereas E-2 can be renewed indefinitely.

How many people have you seen on here who've gotten E-2 for something daft? And how many have I encountered, lots.

I mean, a lot of people just go to overstock.com, buy up a load of junk and sell it on EBay and that's how they survive from day-to-day.

I had a relative who got E-2 for running an interior design company, he never really made any money at it and eventually it failed during the recession, but hey he got it and he had it for a long time. Depends on your willingness to endure for the privilege of being able to live in the US, temporarily. Which a surprisingly large number of people will put up with.

Re: E2 Visa for USA - Help
 

Wow - so much mis-information in this thread!!!

It’s not a lot, however you should be able to do it for about $6,000 with an attorney.

Honestly this sounds like a business you would like to move to the US, rather than one that needs to be in the US, so IMO is likely to be an uphill struggle for a visa, not to mention that "subsistence businesses" are specifically prohibited.

Obviously it depends on the business - for example, a gem stone dealer could store a hell of a lot of stock in a wardrobe. There is actually nothing that stops you renting some self-storage space under your new business in the USA.

You don’t need a business premises - you can use a virtual office/corporate image contract to cover the business premises requirement with no issues at all. If it’s a solely e-commerce business then there should be no zoning issue for working at home.

I don’t know where this $200k comes from - there are plenty of people who get their E2 visa with a lot less. The exact wording is ‘substantial investment’ which is so wooly it’s meaningless really. During my research I came across someone who had invested less than $50,000 for their E2 visa - it’s all about how you put together the pack as I understand it.

I also don’t know where this $400k comes from either…it’s almost as if you don’t actually want people to move to the USA and really isn’t helpful advice!!!

Why go to the expense of a full on office and all that entails if it’s not necessary for the business?

Or have the USA company buy the stock from the UK company. Check the harmonized tariff code (if you import to the UK it’ll be the same code) and see what the US import duty numbers are going to be like. I was very lucky - my commodity codes in the USA are actually a fraction of what they were i the UK.

Not at all! If you walk into a Berkshire Hathaway Home Services branch and say that you want to rent that one then you will have an issue with rent. If you do some ground work and find a rental-by-owner then there’s no reason why you can’t talk your way into a rental without 6+ months rent up from. Car insurance don’t require huge deposits. My utilities deposit was $400 for water and nothing for electric or cable. Having said that, I wouldn’t want to make the move with ‘only’ £10,000. I don’t know what medical fees you refer to - I haven’t spend anything yet (other than insurance premiums).

It’s often much better to run the business from the market you’re selling to. My products are too ‘custom’ to just stick in a fulfilment warehouse and keep odd hours in the UK. That’s not to say that it’s not possible at all, however my wife and I wanted to make the move to the USA.

This I think is the best bit of advice on this thread. I rarely need a ‘Like’ button, but this is one of those times.

I’m sorry, but what absolute nonsense!!! Most retail businesses are working on a much larger profit margin than you imply. Most retail businesses would operate on a minimum of 100% markup, if not much much more. It does of course depend on the business.

That’s not true.

Agree with all this

Would be a good route. Obviously not one I’ve gone down, however I understand it’s a more expensive way to come to the US than the E2 application.

I would strongly suggest not doing this alone, however you will require more money for attorney fees. I also suggest you speak with a CPA who is experienced with both the UK/USA side of things. It sounds like you should set up a USA LLC and have that company buy the assets from your UK company. You don’t have to physically move the stock from UK to USA until or unless the visa is issued.

I hope the above has been of some use - for reference, my qualifications to answer the comments are having just gone through the E2 visa process and currently in the USA working.

Re: E2 Visa for USA - Help
 

You seem to have quoted everybody but me?

Re: E2 Visa for USA - Help
 

So like I said, the US market is already accessible.

I'll concede that shipping goods transatlantic is perhaps not the optimal solution, but it's hardly misinformation on my part!

Sounds like you need a timeout. Perhaps the American dream is taking its toll.

Re: E2 Visa for USA - Help
 

On the phone, but to address your points in order:

1. No idea how much space the stock takes up - depends on the industry. That could be one diamond or a hell of a lot of furniture foam

2. I looked at moving to multiple residential locations and not a single one had any issue for working from home for a solely e-commerce business and the way it would operate - I.e. As long as you don't have customers coming to the house and it doesn't add more than x vehicle movements a day. Obviously I didn't look at EVERY location in Florida but that was what I found.

3. It sounds like a reasonable fee for a company that has a US and a U.K. presence where you can go into an office in London and speak to someone face to face. That, however, is not necessary. My concern would be the only £10k for this exercise.

4. No idea on this - would need to see full business plan and personal finances before I'd venture advice on whether this particular business is 'E2 compatible'

Does that make you feel better?! :D

Re: E2 Visa for USA - Help
 

I didn't say your post was misinformation.

Re: E2 Visa for USA - Help
 

"Wow - so much mis-information in this thread!!!" and then quoting my post in its entirety sure reads that way. Oh well.

Re: E2 Visa for USA - Help
 

I think there's some crossed wires going on here - as I'm confused about your reply.

As far as I can see, I only quoted one line - 10 words of your post and commented accordingly? Am I missing something like you having 2 accounts or something?

The only thing I can see that I quoted of yours was:

Which was then proceeded by:

My response to your comment that I quoted (about the US market already being accessible) was to mean that of course the US market is accessible from the UK or anywhere else in the world for that matter, however it's not always practical. It wouldn't be practical for my business to operate in that manor from the UK. The options would be:

1. Have all my products in a fulfillment warehouse in the USA and have them dispatch my orders. The problem with this route is that some of my products are customizable which can't be done by a fulfillment warehouse. Not only that, but the products that I sell are electronics and I test everything together to ensure it works for the customer so that when it arrives, the chances of a DOA are as close to zero as possible. This isn't because we have a high failure rate - just to offer the best customer experience possible.

2. Ship everything from the UK to the USA. This is of course possible but adds additional lead time to the order for the customer, as well as increased costs that either the customer or I have to bear and the customer to have to stand dealing with some costs associated with them being the importer (customs clearance and import duties). Finally, I know that I wouldn't be comfortable buying anything more than a few quid, sorry, bucks from a completely foreign entity so I would still have to have the setup costs and admin overhead of running the company in the USA

3. Employ people in the USA to carry out the business and I operate from afar. Whilst not a bad idea and as it's a business I've ran before in the UK I know how some of the business processes work, I'm not at the level that putting in a full management team on day one is a cost I'd personally like to bear and would add additional time to any issues that need ironing out. That's not to say that this route is not possible long term and is one of my long term routes that I am considering, depending on how the business goes. And besides, I want to be in the USA!

This shows that whilst the market technically is accessible to me in the UK, it's not necessarily financially viable or the best route for me to go down.

As I say, I'm not sure what's got lost in translation in what I posted - perhaps you can clarify your comment above.

Re: E2 Visa for USA - Help
 

Well... let's see! You started your post with: "Wow - so much mis-information in this thread!!!" This implies that everything you're about to quote is misinformation (which, by the way, is one word), and the only reason you'd quote is, therefore, is to correct it. That's what happened. Whether or not that was your actual intent is irrelevant... because we can only go by what you actually wrote and not what happened to be in your head at the time.

Ian

Re: E2 Visa for USA - Help
 

Sorry for the spelling faux pas - being dyslexic I concentrate very hard on getting my written output spelled correctly and as grammatically correct as I possibly can however I do sometimes make mistakes. I do however believe that every day is a school day so will try to remember misinformation!

I would hope that it was clear that not everything that I quoted was misinformation given that I followed with the following comments:

• This I think is the best bit of advice on this thread. I rarely need a ‘Like’ button, but this is one of those times.
• Agree with all this
• Would be a good route. Obviously not one I’ve gone down, however I understand it’s a more expensive way to come to the US than the E2 application.

That should make it fairly clear what was in my head at the time. Apologies if not.

Re: E2 Visa for USA - Help
 

I DO agree with that, and usually recommend renting privately for exactly that reason.You obviously know your own business but appear to know very little about businesses in general. While I agree some people have been able to get an E-2 visa based on a capital investment of as little as $50,000, such cases are the exception, not the rule.

The biggest single reason that businesses fail is under capitalization, especially in the early period of establishing and developing the business. So while it is possible to run some businesses on a shoe string, it is usually necessary, and certainly good practice (your business is more likely to succeed) if it has a solid capital base. It is remarkably easy to burn through start up capital, and especially so if you don't have ready access to credit, as new immigrants rarely do.

And everything that applies to a business also applies to setting up a home in another country when you have limited access to credit and are starting a new business which isn't yet up and running, and is therefore generating low or little profit. I would argue that having $100k for personal home expenses rent/ down payment, cars, appliances, furniture, etc, and a cushion of $100k to use in case the business doesn't generate much revenue in the first year or two would be prudent.

Do people start businesses and burn through less start-up money? Undoubtedly yes, but I wouldn't recommend trying to scrimp by with so little as the chances of you simply running out of cash is too high. For a notional "average" business needing commercial or industrial premises, some sort of equipment and machinery, and some sort of stock/inventory of raw.materials and/or merchandise for sale, then $200k is a pretty good starting point. Just 'cos your business didn't need as much doesn't mean that most others don't either!

FWIW if you invest $200k in a business, say with some plant/machinery and inventory, and make a 20% return on your capital invested (which I would argue is high, perhaps unrealistically so, for anything other than a consulting/ advisory/ professional services firm), then you're only making $40,000 which isn't going to get you very far. ..... And one of the reasons I suggest the aggregate $400k - to see you through the period of establishing your business.

Re: E2 Visa for USA - Help
 

i feel a bit better:

1. Clothing, so quite a lot of space.

2. We re talking about a warehouse operation.

3. OK

4. Could be E2 compatible, depends on scale.