mariaGB

we've been looking at a way of working in the usa - we're about 3 years away from getting Canadian citizenship and the H1B visas seem very hard to get and the non-aussie E3 ones even harder...

so my questions are:

1. I was born in Ireland but my passport has expired and I hold a British passport - from what I have read passports don't matter - just where I was born - is that right?

2. if 1 is ok - then i can apply for the DV lottery and claim my uk spouse too and he can apply separately using my birthplace (as being his spouse) so we get 2 entries ?

3. what happens with our kiddies - one is UK born and one is Canadian born - are they just dragged along by our application?

4. if we end up getting Canadian citizenship (current plan) we can have dual with British (ie hold 2 passports) BUT does that mean I have to give up my Irish Citizenship and therefore be un-eligible for the dv lottery ? or is the fact i was born there enough - didnt leave till i was 24 after university ?

sorry for all the newbie questions - i've spent a lot of time in the last 2 days looking at the forums trying to wrap my head around the visas required to work in the usa...

fatbrit

1 - Yes
2 - Yes
3 - Dragged along providing they're under 21 and unmarried.
4 - Eligibility is based purely on place of birth. Britain, Canada, Ireland and the US all currently accept the concept of dual citizenship.

Other note: DV might well be quashed in forthcoming comprehensive immigration legislation.

ian-mstm

Yes


Yes.


I believe so, yes.


No... citizenship doesn't matter, as you noted above. Regardless, you wouldn't lose your Irish citizenship anyway!

Ian

mariaGB

thank you all for the answers.

re: the dual citizenship question - we were told (by immigration in Canada) that Canada only allows 1 dual so we could have Canada/UK or Canada/Ireland but not Canada/UK/Ireland... so in order to get Canada/UK - I'd have to give up rights to Irish or maybe i just got it all wrong... but as its just place of birth - we should be all good then... if the dv lottery is still a go in October

we'll see what happens.

thanks again.

S Folinsky

Rule: each country determines its OWN rules of citizenship. That said, the new country may require renunciation. That said, the old country determines whether the renunciation is effective.

ian-mstm

Rubbish... I have UK/CDN/US citizenship - and 3 passports - all equally valid.

Ian

mariaGB

thanks Ian

JAJ

You were told wrong. You don't have to give up anything. Many Canadians have triple citizenship (British/American/Canadian is a common combination, there are others).

beatle2102

Just to reiterate what others have said, my Dad has Canadian, NZ and US citizenship (latter two through naturalization), and I have Australian, NZ and Canadian citizenship (latter two by descent), so unless things have changed recently, you won't lose other citizenships by acquiring a Canadian one.

JAJ

Slightly off topic, but the following are relevant to being a Canadian and NZ citizen by descent, if you have children born in the USA:
http://britishexpats.com/wiki/Canadi...hip_by_Descent

http://britishexpats.com/wiki/New_Ze...hip_by_Descent

Australian citizenship by descent for any children requires registration (a formality if the statutory requirements are met) but until that point, a child is not Australian.

beatle2102

Great info -- thanks! Admittedly, the restrictions on NZ and Canadian citizenship by descent make sense to me. Irish citizenship is a bit funny, I think, in allowing potentially endless citizenship to be handed down through the generations -- defeats the purpose of citizenship, surely? On the flipside, requiring registration in order to gain citizenship by descent seems a bit unreasonable, but that's Australia for you.

ian-mstm

Not surprising... the Irish have always been a bit funny!

Ian

Ray

Are you calling Ian common .... lol

JAJ

The Irish experience is that most people who become citizens based on a grandparent leave it until late adulthood to apply (unless the family has retained strong ties with Ireland). Which then means that they cannot pass it on to their children, unless they move to Ireland with children and have children naturalised.

I disagree. It avoids the problem of people showing up as adults claiming that they are already citizens but having no documents to prove it.

There used to be an age limit to register as an Australian citizen by descent - age 18 up to 2002, then 25 until 2007 when the age limit got removed. Now you can register at any age, although those above age 18 have a good character requirement.

Generally, speaking, parents should complete their children's citizenship documentation immediately after the child is born. It never gets easier if left until later and often becomes more difficult.

beatle2102

That's definitely been my experience. I'm going to have to get English citizenship the long way, as my mother was not registered as an Irish citizen at the time of my birth. Had she been registered at the time of my birth, I could walk right into the EU. Sigh.

My point was that while that might be an experience of many, it's not the rule. I guess it doesn't ultimately matter and really makes no difference to my life, but it would bother me if (for example) someone could move to the US simply because a great-grandparent was American, while the child of an illegal immigrant who had lived in the US for most of his/her life didn't have those same rights. If the former can come into the country on the basis of the vaguest connection, it would seem the latter should at least have some option to do the same.

The point of citizenship is, at least in theory, that you have enough of a connection to a country that you have to right to vote, not be deported, etc. My connection to Canada might be a bit tenuous, but I at least grew up in a household with a strong Canuck influence (although to be honest, that fact that I have Canadian citizenship at all shows up the whole system for the farce it is). I never even met my Irish great-grand parents, which is why I begin to wonder about the logic of citizenship by descendancy.

I want to stress that I'm not trying to be all rah-rah nationalistic here, I just wish the whole system was a bit more fair, and not based on being born into the right family. Either close your borders to all but a very few, or open it up to everyone. I'd much prefer the latter, but if a country is going to be tough to get in, at least have the system based on merit and not on familial ties. I really should know better than to look for logic in immigration matters, but there you go.


That's not quite what I was saying. For example, I was a NZ citizen automatically at birth, regardless of whether it was 'registered' or not. This has also been the experience of some members on this forum who (since we're in the US forum and I should probably be making at least a vague attempt to stay on topic!) have been American citizens all along due to having an America father/mother. There's a process involved in proving that citizenship by descendancy, but there's a definite distinction between applying for an American passport as proof of American citizenship and applying for the citizenship itself. Shutting people out from a country simply because their parents failed to register their citizenship by descent is, to my mind, irrational and pointless. If a country is going to award people citizenship by descendancy, then award it on the basis of descendancy, not 'descendancy and your parents kept up to date with citizenship requirements'.

I bet you could show up at the Aussie border claiming to be a citizen (and I'm sure many do!), but I doubt without an Aussie passport or some other proof, you're not getting in. Pure assumption, but I'm fairly sure that's been the case for a while, and not just since 2002.

I'm all for the 'good character requirement' after age 18 only if it means Tony Abbott gets thrown out of the country.