lairdside

Ah, thankyou
Yes I knew about the INA - it seems to be quite commonly applied in cases of derivative Citizenship. I was just confused as it seemed to apply extra conditions to the CCA.
So, I was correct in reading that if a child was under 18 and didn't qualify under the INA ( due to the fact that their parent was not a USC prior to their birth) that they could still obtain either automatic citizenship by being a LPR present in the US prior to being 18 - or if abroad, by residing in the physical, legal custody of the USC parent who has at least 5 years physical residence in the US, being temporarily legally present in the US ( to complete the naturalization process) and having obtained a Certificate of Citizenship ?
If I've missed anything I am still waking up.....

jaytee

You have not read the text at the US State Department's website. Pay attention to the paragraph in bold.

http://travel.state.gov/loss.html

ADVICE ABOUT POSSIBLE LOSS OF U.S. CITIZENSHIP
AND DUAL NATIONALITY
The Department of State is responsible for determining the citizenship status of a person located outside the United States or in connection with the application for a U.S. passport while in the United States.


POTENTIALLY EXPATRIATING STATUTES
Section 349 of the Immigration and Nationality Act, as amended, states that U.S. citizens are subject to loss of citizenship if they perform certain acts voluntarily and with the intention to relinquish U.S. citizenship. Briefly stated, these acts include:


(1) obtaining naturalization in a foreign state (Sec. 349 (a) (1) INA);
(2) taking an oath, affirmation or other formal declaration to a foreign state or its political subdivisions (Sec. 349 (a) (2) INA);

(3) entering or serving in the armed forces of a foreign state engaged in hostilities against the U.S. or serving as a commissioned or non-commissioned officer in the armed forces of a foreign state (Sec. 349 (a) (3) INA);

(4) accepting employment with a foreign government if (a) one has the nationality of that foreign state or (b) a declaration of allegiance is required in accepting the position (Sec. 349 (a) (4) INA);

(5) formally renouncing U.S. citizenship before a U.S. consular officer outside the United States (sec. 349 (a) (5) INA);

(6) formally renouncing U.S. citizenship within the U.S. (but only "in time of war") (Sec. 349 (a) (6) INA);

(7) conviction for an act of treason (Sec. 349 (a) (7) INA).


ADMINISTRATIVE STANDARD OF EVIDENCE
As already noted, the actions listed above can cause loss of U.S. citizenship only if performed voluntarily and with the intention of relinquishing U.S. citizenship. The Department has a uniform administrative standard of evidence based on the premise that U.S. citizens intend to retain United States citizenship when they obtain naturalization in a foreign state, subscribe to routine declarations of allegiance to a foreign state, or accept non-policy level employment with a foreign government.


DISPOSITION OF CASES WHEN ADMINISTRATIVE PREMISE IS APPLICABLE
In light of the administrative premise discussed above, a person who:


(1) is naturalized in a foreign country;
(2) takes a routine oath of allegiance or

(3) accepts non-policy level employment with a foreign government


and in so doing wishes to retain U.S. citizenship need not submit prior to the commission of a potentially expatriating act a statement or evidence of his or her intent to retain U.S. citizenship since such an intent will be presumed.
When, as the result of an individual's inquiry or an individual's application for registration or a passport it comes to the attention of a U.S. consular officer that a U.S. citizen has performed an act made potentially expatriating by Sections 349(a)(1), 349(a)(2), 349(a)(3) or 349(a)(4), the consular officer will simply ask the applicant if there was intent to relinquish U.S. citizenship when performing the act. If the answer is no, the consular officer will certify that it was not the person's intent to relinquish U.S. citizenship and, consequently, find that the person has retained U.S. citizenship.


PERSONS WHO WISH TO RELINQUISH U.S. CITIZENSHIP
If the answer to the question regarding intent to relinquish citizenship is yes, the person concerned will be asked to complete a questionnaire to ascertain his or her intent toward U.S. citizenship. When the questionnaire is completed and the voluntary relinquishment statement is signed by the expatriate, the consular officer will proceed to prepare a certificate of loss of nationality. The certificate will be forwarded to the Department of State for consideration and, if appropriate, approval.

An individual who has performed any of the acts made potentially expatriating by statute who wishes to lose U.S. citizenship may do so by affirming in writing to a U.S. consular officer that the act was performed with an intent to relinquish U.S. citizenship. Of course, a person always has the option of seeking to formally renounce U.S. citizenship in accordance with Section 349 (a) (5) INA.


DISPOSITION OF CASES WHEN ADMINISTRATIVE PREMISE IS INAPPLICABLE
The premise that a person intends to retain U.S. citizenship is not applicable when the individual:


(1) formally renounces U.S. citizenship before a consular officer;
(2) takes a policy level position in a foreign state;

(3) is convicted of treason; or

(4) performs an act made potentially expatriating by statute accompanied by conduct which is so inconsistent with retention of U.S. citizenship that it compels a conclusion that the individual intended to relinquish U.S. citizenship. (Such cases are very rare.)


Cases in categories 2, 3, and 4 will be developed carefully by U.S. consular officers to ascertain the individual's intent toward U.S. citizenship.

APPLICABILITY OF ADMINISTRATIVE PREMISE TO PAST CASES
The premise established by the administrative standard of evidence is applicable to cases adjudicated previously. Persons who previously lost U.S. citizenship may wish to have their cases reconsidered in light of this policy.

A person may initiate such a reconsideration by submitting a request to the nearest U.S. consular office or by writing directly to:

Director
Office of American Citizens Services
(CA/OCS/ACS)
Room 4817 NS
Department of State
2201 C Street N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20520

Each case will be reviewed on its own merits taking into consideration, for example, statements made by the person at the time of the potentially expatriating act.

Rich Wales

James Donovan wrote:

> > Although it's totally up to the other country to keep
> > you as a citizen, the USA makes you "renounce all
> > allegiances to any foreign power" when you naturalize
> > here.

"jaytee" replied:

> You have not read the text at the US State Department's
> website. . . . [http://travel.state.gov/loss.html]

James was presumably citing the US naturalization oath, which does
indeed contain a mandatory blanket renunciatory statement -- the
practical effect of which is unclear nowadays, but more on that in
a second.

"jaytee" correctly noted that the current (since 1990) policy of
the State Dept. (which bears the primary responsibility for cases
in which US citizens, whether natural-born or naturalized, are
alleged to have lost their US citizenship) is that it's generally
OK for a US citizen to acquire another citizenship (or serve in a
foreign military force) =without= thereby losing US citizenship --
unless it was the person's intent to abandon US citizenship -- and
that, with only rare exceptions, the US will =not= assert that an
individual intended to relinquish US citizenship =unless= he/she
explicitly confirms that this was in fact his/her intention.

As for the foreign status of newly naturalized US citizens, the US
naturalization oath does include a renunciatory clause (and anyone
who must take the naturalization oath is required by federal law to
make this renunciatory statement as an integral part thereof -- no
point in even asking for a waiver, for any reason whatsoever).

However, AFAIK, the State Dept. concluded some time ago that the
renunciatory clause wasn't enforceable from the US perspective
in any practical way. Thus, if a new US citizen's "old country"
refuses to recognize the renunciation and insists the person is
still one of their citizens, the US doesn't mind or care if a
naturalized US citizen continues to accept his old country's view
-- such as by using an "old country" passport when travelling to
that country (though a US passport must still be used to return
to the US).

Reference: http://travel.state.gov/dualnationality.html -- and
note, in particular, the second paragraph's statement that "a
person naturalized as a U.S. citizen may not lose the citizenship
of the country of birth" -- plus the fourth paragraph's statement
that "Dual nationals may also be required by the foreign country
to use its passport to enter and leave that country. Use of the
foreign passport does not endanger U.S. citizenship."

Rich Wales [email protected] http://www.richw.org/dualcit/
*DISCLAIMER: I am not a lawyer, professional immigration consultant,
or consular officer. My comments are for discussion purposes only and
are not intended to be relied upon as legal or professional advice.

bazpreston

bazpreston

Amer20034

Canadians who are now US Citizens favor dual-citizenships for obvious reasons.

If the dual-citizenship is between friendly countries, you will probably
not encounter any issue that warrants federal scrutiny.

If you hold dual-citizenship (including a US Citizenship) and if you have
to serve in the military of a foreign country, watch out.
The US State Dept and other federal organizations can do things to you
that nobody in this newsgroup can save you from.
And real Americans will not support your cause if you sit on the fence
between 2 countries claiming to be a citizen of both.

You are either an American, or you are not.
You should decide if the other country whose citizenship you hold
may end up on the other side of a major dispute with the U.S.

Good luck.