J. J. Farrell

"supernav" <member16283@british_expats.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > >The OP can't
    > >get an SSN.
    > Then get legal status in this country. What are you
    > babbling about?

Come on, man - pay attention. You usually keep your facts
straight, whatever your opinions, but on this occasion it
is you who are babbling. The OP is in perfectly legal status
but is not entitled to work, and hence cannot get an SSN.

supernav

>Examples, please.

Here's an easy one: Canada.

As for the person: I mis-read her. She is legal.

However her argument is still invalid. From what i know, she HAS an SSN and CAN get a driver's license and IS legal.

So what's her gripe? I assume she's illegal, otherwise why even post a thread about having to give a SSN for a dl?

When I got my cali DL. I gave my SSN, previous DL, legal status, Photo AND fingerprints. I didn't whine or jump up and down like a monkey. The people of this state want that info from me for various reasons (security, stability, technical), and if i want that benefit -- i have to abide by *their* rules.

-= nav =-

Joachim Feise

supernav said on 4/25/2004 9:58:
    >
    > However her argument is still invalid.
    >>From what i know, she HAS an SSN and CAN get a driver's license and IS
    >
    >>legal.

That's the whole point: she is legal and does *not* have an SSN.

    > So what's her gripe? I assume she's illegal, otherwise why
    >
    >>even post a thread about having to give a SSN for a dl?

Again, she *is* legal, despite being legal can *not* get an SSN, and
therefore the Illinois DMV does *not* want to give her a DL.
How hard is that to grasp???

-Joe

Ivonne

Hi,

I am the OP. It is the problem of my friend who arrived recently, not myself (I have L2-visa and I have SSN). But my friend hasn't. How can you write: "from what i know, she has a SSN?" How can you know? She has not! And she can't get one. But still she is legal.

Why don't you just write nothing, if you don't have an answer instead of assuming things that you can't possibly know and that are wrong. anybody else seems to have understood my post, and thank you for your answers.

She has not resolved the issue. Still, the SSA insists on not giving her a SSN and the DMV insists on not giving her a DL without SSN.

Tjokerbr

Ok, guys. After all the flame-throwing, let's stick to the facts.
There are states that do not require you to have a SSN do get a DL, as
a matter of fact Illinois is one of the last ones to require so.
A new law is about to be signed by the governor that will allow people
that are legal residents but cannot get a SSN (e.g. H4's ans students'
spouses) to get the DL. This bill has already been approved by the
state senate:

http://www.legis.state.il.us/legisla...55&SessionID=3

These individuals will be able to get the DL by showing the passport,
visa stamp, I-94, or whatever proves that they are living here
legally.
The DL will have a maximum valid date of 3 years.

Good luck. Do not take the freaking bus!

TJ

Ivonne <member4070@british_expats.com> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > Originally posted by supernav
    > >
    > >
    > > As for the person:
    > I mis-read her. She is legal.
    > >
    > > However her argument is still
    > invalid. From what i know, she HAS an SSN and CAN get a driver's
    > license and IS legal.
    > >
    > >
    >
    > Hi,
    >
    > I am the OP. It is the
    > problem of my friend who arrived recently, not myself (I have L2-visa
    > and I have SSN). But my friend hasn't. How can you write: "from what i
    > know, she has a SSN?" How can you know? She has not! And she can't get
    > one. But still she is legal.
    >
    > Why don't you just write nothing, if you
    > don't have an answer instead of assuming things that you can't possibly
    > know and that are wrong. anybody else seems to have understood my post,
    > and thank you for your answers.
    >
    > She has not resolved the issue. Still,
    > the SSA insists on not giving her a SSN and the DMV insists on not
    > giving her a DL without SSN.

tjokerbr

Good news. Governor Blagojevich approved the bill on 7/16 and the Secretary of State will start issuing temporary DLs starting Jan 1st 2005.
The DL will be valid for 3 years or until the indicidual is authorized to stay, whichever comes first. Just show your documentation stating that you are legal but cannot get a SSN.

Check the Public Act:
http://www.legis.state.il.us/legislation/publicacts/fulltext.asp?Name=093-0752

Take the bus... right...

- TJ

RICKRGRS

Not true -- maybe in the past but not for the last year or so. From personal experience, the DMV is very strict now about having verified proof of legal presence. Even with a SSN and EAD, the DMV will submit the applicant's information to the DHS (and FBI) for verification that the documents are valid, and the non-resident alien is legally here, before issuing a hard card license.

Joe Feise

RICKRGRS wrote on 1/29/2005 08:59:
    >>Ivonne wrote on 4/22/2004 9:55:
    >>>How can a person, who is ineligible for SSN (for example H4-status)
    >>>get
    >>>a DL in Illinois?
    >>>The DMV told her: no license without SSN
    >>>The SSA told
    >>>her: no SSN for H4s
    >>>On both the websites of the SSa or DMV i didn't
    >>>find any information regarding exeptions from this for people
    >>>ineligible
    >>>for SSN.
    >>http://www.socialsecurity.gov/regula...0960_af05f.htm
    >>The SSA does not issue numbers if the *only* reason is to get a
    >>drivers
    >>license.
    >>In particular:
    >>"Valid Nonwork Reason
    >>Comment: Several commenters expressed their concern that the
    >>elimination of the
    >>need for a driver's license as a "valid nonwork reason" for obtaining
    >>an SSN
    >>presents a hardship for spouses of employment-authorized aliens and
    >>for States
    >>that rely on the SSN as a unique identifier. Specifically, these
    >>commenters
    >>indicated that, because some States still require an SSN from all
    >>drivers'
    >>license applicants, the need for a drivers" license should remain a
    >>"valid
    >>nonwork reason" for the assignment of an SSN. These commenters include
    >>numerous
    >>members of the general public as well as representatives from the
    >>State of
    >>Illinois, the State of Pennsylvania, the Government of Japan, the
    >>American
    >>Immigration Lawyers Association, the National Council of La Raza, the
    >>American
    >>Council on International Personnel, the Brazilian Immigrant Center,
    >>and three
    >>Japanese Chambers of Commerce in the U.S., and other organizations,
    >>and counsel
    >>for the plaintiffs in Sonali Iyengar v. Jo Anne B. Barnhart, Civil
    >>Action No.
    >>02-0825 (ESH) in the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia.
    >>Response: We are changing our policy based on the guidance provided by
    >>investigative authorities that show that some non-citizens assigned
    >>SSNs for
    >>nonwork purposes misuse those SSNs. Our experience has revealed that
    >>fraud and
    >>misuse regarding SSNs for nonwork purposes has been almost exclusively
    >>in
    >>relation to SSNs issued for driver licensing. [...]
    >>We acknowledge that our definition of a "valid nonwork reason" may
    >>present a
    >>challenge to some aliens without work authorization. We have
    >>encouraged States
    >>to develop an alternative identifier for several years, and our
    >>efforts have
    >>been met with considerable success as many States that previously
    >>required an
    >>SSN for all drivers' license applicants no longer do. In 1997, there
    >>were 17
    >>States that required an SSN from all applicants for a driver's
    >>license.
    >>Currently, there are only seven States that have laws requiring an SSN
    >>for all
    >>drivers' license applicants. Furthermore, four of those States were
    >>previously
    >>able to implement systems of alternative identification during the
    >>period of
    >>March 1, 2002 through December 6, 2002 when SSA was not assigning SSNs
    >>for
    >>driver's license purposes. Additionally, we have, with the assistance
    >>of the
    >>American Association of Motor Vehicle Administrators and the support
    >>of the U.S.
    >>Department of Transportation, combined efforts to assist States that
    >>require
    >>SSNs for driver licensing and motor vehicle registration purposes to
    >>develop
    >>alternative identifier systems to accommodate individuals not
    >>authorized to work
    >>in the U.S. As issuing drivers' licenses is a State function, we
    >>continue to
    >>urge those few remaining States that require an SSN from all drivers'
    >>license
    >>applicants to develop an alternative identifier for those individuals
    >>affected
    >>by this rule change."
    >>>Are they supposed not to drive around for a couple of years?
    >>>How can they get a DL? Does anyone have an answer?
    >>I don't know if the Illinois DMV has an exception, but here in CA, the
    >>SSA gives the person a letter stating that the person does not qualify
    >>for a SSN, and the DMV accepts that.
    >>If the Illinois DMV does not have such an exception, you may need to
    >>hire a lawyer to sue them.
    >>-Joe
    >
    >
    > Not true -- maybe in the past but not for the last year or so. From
    > personal experience, the DMV is very strict now about having verified
    > proof of legal presence. Even with a SSN and EAD, the DMV will submit
    > the applicant's information to the DHS (and FBI) for verification that
    > the documents are valid, and the non-resident alien is legally here,
    > before issuing a hard card license.
    >

Well, these things change all the time...
This all may be moot soon, anyway, since there is a bill in Congress as
HR 418, which, if approved, will give the DHS the power to establish
requirements for state drivers licenses.
In essence, that bill would result in turning the DL into a nationwide
ID card.

-Joe