Michael D. Young

DCMark wrote:

    > Demographics? Now you reveal the true reason why you are against voter
    > registration at the DMV (and why I am for it). Voter registration at
    > the DMV encourages the vote to those who have most often been
    > disenfranchised. The poor, the minorities, those who in the past have
    > been discouraged from voting due to the poll tax, literacy tests, etc
    > (mostly in the south yes) .

Yeah lets make it easier to register to vote so all the boneheads that don't
know what's going on can vote.

BeachBunny

Thanks for sticking up for me. But I admit, I was asking the question sarcastically in fun!! Because it seems sometimes it would have been better off if he had snuck in the country. However, I do know that isn't the truth.. I think. ??

BeachBunny

You'll be amazed to discover how many Americans are living in Baja illegally! I've found out that we canNOT live in Baja legally. When I went down to do my research there last month 1/2 the Americans there were living there.. illegally! To bad we can't just swap and be done with it. I asked someone about how they were able to live there if Americans (same for Brits) are only giving a maximum 6 month visa.. and he told me "Everyone lives in Baja illegally.. its no problem!"

The workers prefer for you to pay in USD's. My friend couldn't pay with a 200 peso because no one had change for it.. but they had no problem taking the $20 and giving change (the same equivalent for the 200 in pesos).

{also, I forgot.. my DH wouldn't be able to qualify for amnesty.. he has more than 3 misdeameners}

Aleja32313440

<<Illegals all know that if you can get yourself into the US and
remain undiscovered that within ten years the US Government will offer
up general amnesty?>>

You are speaking nonsense. That happenned only once in 1987 for people in the
USA since before Jan 1st 1982.
Never before then, never since then.

Ale

doctor scrumpy

Well you know where to sneak Leighton into the country then Laura. That heavily defended rusting fence on the beach lol

7 weeks and counting almost for u 2 ?

jg1012002

There is another side to the driver's license issue -----

If you are against giving them a driver's license, fine. But don't bitch when they hit your car and have no insurance......after all you didn't want them to have one.

By giving them a driver's license, it could be mandatory they provide insurance to get the license, and then when they hit you at least the damages are paid for.

As for the issue of Nationality and voting, before you are given a driver's license, in most states you have to prove who you are.....this is normally done via birth certificate and/or passport. This is listed somewhere within their database because the information is gathered. Now maybe they don't check it which is the governments error. By asking a non-citizen if they want to vote, I assume the presumption by the alien would be that they are eligible - after all they have already proved where they were born.

As for the illegal immigration, until they do something to enforce the borders more securely it will be done. I say give them amnesty (provided they have no criminal records, have been paying taxes, etc) but have them pay a high penalty for being here illegally like $5,000. Take the $5,000 from each illegal who files for amnesty and reinforce the borders to stop the flow. Surely with that kind of money (stop and think about the number of illegals here) they could use some "smart technology" to stop the influx.

Leslie

I know you were just kidding about sneaking your husband in.
Actually I was still mad at Trentonramsey for something he said in another post, lol. A little bit of misplaced anger there.

Leslie

Rete

There already is a provision in NYS, at least, for requiring auto insurance. You need to show insurance to register a vehicle.

Rete

Linda & Eric

It's the same here in PA. If you drop your car ins, you must return your license plates. Not that everyone does, but that's the way it's supposed to be.

Dekka's Angel

It already is mandatory in California to provide insurance as a condition of registering your car. Insurance travels with the vehicle, as well as the driver. Unless the insurer can prove that the vehicle's owner knowingly gave the car to someone without a license, the car is insured even if an unlicensed driver causes an accident. Moreover, every insurance policy in California requires uninsured/underinsured motorist coverage, so you're covered even if there is no insurance on the other vehicle at all. We also of course are ignoring tort liability law - if someone hits you, causes damage, and insurance cannot respond to it, you sue them. It is done all the time.

And as someone who worked a long time in the nonprofit legal services world, I can reassure you that the reason most people drive uninsured in California is the same whether you are a citizen, legal or illegal resident - affordability of insurance. At least here in California, anyhow. So IMO the idea that illegal aliens must have drivers licenses so that the rest of us can better avoid being the victim of an uninsured accident is a red herring, at least here in California.

But what's interesting about this thread is what people are not talking about when it comes to the drivers' license issue, which is the real problem with it as far as I'm concerned. Which is that it just got 1,000 times easier for an illegal alien in California to front being here legally, without fear of detection and deportation.

To get a social security card, all that is required is that you show 2 documents or more that prove identity, age and alienage status (correct me if I'm misremembering this, Mike Young!). The SSA, last time I checked, will accept a certified birth certificate and a drivers license as evidence of all three criteria. Birth certificates are some of the most commonly forged (and easily forgeable) documents that exist and before 1994 (when California eliminated drivers' licenses for illegal aliens) were regularly used by illegal immigrants along with drivers' licenses to get social security numbers.

And it is inarguable that a valid social security number combined with a valid drivers' license makes an illegal immigrant virtually undetectable in the work force, because they now have what is required to pass I-9 scrutiny.

If we are going to sanction illegal immigrant document fraud as being OK, I wish we would just say so and open the border. BTW I take issue with the implication by some on this thread that people who are opposed to this type of behavior are somehow ultra conservatives, racists/xenophobes or unfeeling people. I'm a progressive Democrat whose own party doesn't believe in 99% of the things I do. We won't even discuss how much I despise the Far Right. But on the other hand I also despise the idea that folks can just saunter on into the US without complying with the immigration law as if they are entitled to be here, and folks go out of their way to make it easier for them to do so with all the usual BS excuses about why it's supposed to be OK. Communities like the one I live in are the ones who suffer from this type of behavior, in which illegal immigrants are competing with US citizens of color (particularly African-Americans) for blue collar and working class jobs that are in very scarce supply. I grow weary of those who don't have to live with the impact of illegal immigration always making excuses for it, and working so hard to make it easier.

Which is why I was planning on voting No on the Recall but am now wavering. It's one thing for Davis to be a buffoon, another to be an outright panderer for votes in such an obvious way. The *only* reason he changed his mind after vetoing this bill twice before is because in 3 1/2 weeks we have a recall and he knows that he is on extremely shaky ground even in many of the traditional Democratic strongholds. He needed a voting bloc that would vote in a unified fashion for him. African-Americans won't do it because we're only 5% of the state anyway. So, he went for a Latino wedge issue - illegal immigration and making it easier for the millions of folks here in this State illegally to survive and thrive. Well, I hope he gets his wish because I know a lot of lifelong Democrats, myself included, that are now considering NOT voting to keep him in office where we were all steadfastly against the recall.

To me, being stupid and incompetent should not get one tossed out of office early, especially during a special election that is costing millions of dollars California cannot afford. But publicly demonstrating a willingness to buy votes is a different matter to me entirely. And in my opinion, that is what Davis just did in this 11th hour switch in position on this issue. It will be very interesting to see what will happen. I shall still likely vote No on the Recall, but I am also on the phone seeing if I can reactivate my membership in the State Central Committee because this yahoo has got to go - permanently.

Andrew Defaria

jg1012002 wrote:

    > There is another side to the driver's license issue -----
    > If you are against giving them a driver's license, fine. But don't
    > bitch when they hit your car and have no insurance......after all you
    > didn't want them to have one.

That's why we have uninsured motorist coverage (which, IMHO, is sily.
You should just insure yourself. If the other person doesn't wany to buy
insurance it should be their problem - not yours). But I would bitch
anyway. They are illegal and shouldn't be here, let alone driving.

    > By giving them a driver's license, it could be mandatory they provide
    > insurance to get the license, and then when they hit you at least the
    > damages are paid for.

It was supposed to be mandatory that they obey the law in the first
place was it not? If they didn't obey the law before and found a way
around the "requirements" what is to stop them from again finding a way
around this "requirement" effectively breaking the law again? The answer
is nothing - it's just a matter of time.

    > As for the issue of Nationality and voting, before you are given a
    > driver's license, in most states you have to prove who you
    > are.....this is normally done via birth certificate and/or passport.

Proving who you are does in no way prove that you are hear legally.

    > This is listed somewhere within their database because the information
    > is gathered. Now maybe they don't check it which is the governments
    > error.

And making another error of giving a privlege to a law breaker is not
the solution. Two wrongs don't make a right.

    > By asking a non-citizen if they want to vote, I assume the presumption
    > by the alien would be that they are eligible - after all they have
    > already proved where they were born.

So? How does that ligitemize the right to vote. Eveyrbody was born
somewhere!

    > As for the illegal immigration, until they do something to enforce the
    > borders more securely it will be done.

Until they better enforce laws like murder there will be murders. But we
are not talking about giving gun permits to felons now are we?

    > I say give them amnesty (provided they have no criminal records, have
    > been paying taxes, etc)

By definition they are criminals committing a felony to sneak in here.

    > but have them pay a high penalty for being here illegally like $5,000.

The penalty they should pay is deportation for commiting a felony, not
"pay to stay".

    > Take the $5,000 from each illegal who files for amnesty and reinforce
    > the borders to stop the flow. Surely with that kind of money (stop and
    > think about the number of illegals here) they could use some "smart
    > technology" to stop the influx.

You're making an invalid assumptions that all or most of the illegals
have $5000 and wish to get amnesty. The way I see is why bother? Amnesty
may come at any moment by the nice Americans and if they don't get
amnesty chances are they can get a drivers license and other benefits
just like legals because we are constantly too lenient toward their
crimes in the first place.

Rete

DA

Go to:

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showt...hreadid=172399

If you want to read about this driver's license issue. The subject matter you touched on is covered in that thread indepth.

Rete

DCMark

He is a felon? Wow, when was he convicted of a federal crime? I do not remember that.

Margaret

Heck even having a driver's licence doesn't guarantee you will
properly insure your vehicle or have it properly plated.

Having worked for a police department office in Canada, there were
many times a person was stopped and found not to have a licence,
insurance and properly plated vehicle or had a licence but no
insurance on their vehicle.

I knew of one friend's ex who while drunk hit and killed a bicyclist.
He was found to be under suspension, no insurance on vehicle. Once he
was released from jail, he wanted to drive his ex's car out of town
with her in it, once again with no licence. He said he didn't care.

If a person wants to drive they will drive with or without a licence,
with or without insurance. It's the way it is.

ScarlettHill

Well, what I say is...

(jumps madly into the fray)

No taxation without representation!!!

So stop taxing me, America. I'm not allowed to vote for years yet!



-=-
Scarlett