E3only

Hi All,

Sorry if this has been coverred before.

I know you all like to know which visa I have and what are the plans.
So I an an Australian planning to go to US on an E-3 Visa.

Recently have been to an organisation called CXCUSA (team based in Sydney)
and the team there are happy with me and are close to securing work.
The way it works is I will be employed by them and they place me as a
consultant with USA company. This they call is as "Corp to Corp" placement
and from what I gather, its just another way of a management consultancy
works here in AU.
Majority of their clients are placed in New York,Los Angeles, SF, Boston,
Seattle and Chicago.


The issue is, I dont know anyone who has experienced such a situation. I
want to get a feel if there is anyone here who would like to share their
experience(s). One of the benefits they outline is - if the contract is
terminated then I can stay in US because they (CXC) will place me on an
unpaid leave.(I know that if I find a job myself and lose the job then I
have to leave US in 10 days). This however makes me feel how stable this
consulting would be. I am married and my wife will come with me. SO the
last thing I want is to be without work.

I therefore have the following question :

"Can I change employers once I am in the U.S. and stay on the E-3 visa?
Yes, your new employer must lodge a new Labor Condition Application (LCA),
and the gap between jobs must be 10 days or less."

Now I know to change employers I will either have to go to say Canada or
put my application within US. Either way - how the h*ll does one manage
to give enough notice to the employer and still go overseas and still start
work with new employer within 10 days. If I were to go to Canada, there is
no way I can put in my resignation ( fear my new E-3 may get declined).

Anyway, for now the main help I would need is if you guys can help me
understand this CORP to CORP or even better if someone has gone to US on
a similar arragement and can share some facts with me.

Sorry for the long explanation. Newbie so please be good to me

Thanks.

MsElui

i know nothing about E3's.

However - a lady who worked at my husbands firm was on some work visa but employed by a third party consulting firm. My husbands firm no longer needed her services and she was very fearful that the consulting firm would only keep her on the books a while before sending her to her home country.

Find out
how many people they actualy have in gainful positions now. (are these in the same line of work as you or in unrelated disciplines)
How many are on unpaid leave now.
How long on average do they remain on unpaid leave.
How long can they stay on unpaid leave before they terminate the contract (is there a clause that means the visa becomes invalid if you stop working for a length of time?? otherwise this could be a total wheeze\loophole).
What happens if the client deems you unsuitable or unemployable for any reason?
Do they guarantee your rates going forward - or could they try and offer you a very low contract and say they have met their side of the bargain?
How long can you personally afford to stay on unpaid leave?

goatherder

Hi

I'm an Aussie based in London currently but moving to the US before year end hopefully. I'm applying for an Immigrant Visa so don't have specifics about the e3 situation but have some limited insight into the contracting situation and also CXC.

I'm a contractor in the UK at the moment. I looked at CXC for their umbrella services in the UK (you find a contract position with a company and then you choose CXC as your employer who then bill the company on your behalf. You are then a consultant of CXC but they don't actually find you work). Its really to deal with the admin hassle around Payroll / National Insurance etc in the UK. In the UK they don't act as an employment business (ie Recruitment Agency). In any event I didn't join them as their fees where significantly higher than the market place - they charge a % of salary whilst others charge a flat fee irrespective of salary.

Your post made me go and have a look at it all and see what they do in the US. I've been trying to find a setup where I could work 4 days a week or on short term contracts in the US (so I can do some time with the kids and generally take it easy for awhile) and still get permie type benefits - ie health insurance etc... Its not been going well!

From what I can work out they seem to offer to sponsor you on the E3 Visa and then farm you out to work at Company USA on a contract basis. My take on this is that your employer (and hence the person that holds the LCA) is CXCUSA. So if you moved from Contract A to Contract B (ie change companies where you work) then since CXCUSA hold the LCA you'd not need to get it transferred / reapply. I'm interested in how they achieve this as I thought they'd at least have to pay you whilst between contracts but who knows (They do in the UK even if its the minimum wage).

So you would be a contractor and that brings with it the uncertainity of employment you are worried about. Hence I'd suggest you have a sizable amount sitting around to handle times when you are on the bench. I typically hold around 6 months living expenses in cash for this. Having said that I've never been happier as a contractor in the UK.

The issue would come if you decide to leave CXC for whatever reason - at that point you'd need to switch the LCA to another company. 10 days seems to be the standard notice period on US contracts I've seen. All my US colleagues operate under those types of arrangements. So I figure that it must be achievable although with the overhead of doing another E3 it does feel tight... Its not clear where you need to submit the new E3 either - I'd suspect that the Canadian US embassy wouldn't even know what it is - hence I'd budget on doing sometime back home if that where to happen. Worse still what happens if you can't find a role if your contract ends - sounds like CXC could cut you free and you've got 10 days to exit - nasty really.

My other concern here is that they don't seem to offer a normal recruitment type setup. They even state they are not a staffing firm which worries me see-> http://www.cxcusa.com/contractor.php
My view is that this means that they would not help you find work although you state that they have indicated that they may. In any event how do you know that the end client would be happy to work with CXC for a given role ? Most of the discussions I've had with recruitment companies in the US seem to indicate that they take you on as an employee and then deal with the payroll type stuff (W2 etc..)

For a bit of background on the US there are number of terms they use:

W2 - this is similar to a Group Certificate in Aus. ie PAYE employees get one each year outlining the wages earned, taxes paid etc...

1099 - this is a report that a company is required to lodge with the IRS each tax year. It outlines all of the payments made to suppliers in the US.

Corp to Corp: This refers to the method that companies employ you - basically US companies prefer to employ corporate entities to complete short term / contract work rather than direct with the individual involved. Additionally there are IRS rules and complications around one person corporate entities - ie the typical UK type setup isn't looked upon favourably. Plus in any event due to things like taxing household income rather than individual income the tax advantages don't seem that great to operating thru a corporate structure vs a PAYE structure. I'm still part way thru working all of this out so there may be more out there that i've not yet discovered.

The other aspect I'm discovering is that contractors aren't held in the same esteem that they are in the UK / Aus. ie we are not seen as a resource available to fill a short term or niche requirement in a company for a finite period. They tend to look at you as someone who can't get a full time job for whatever reason - equally the rates of pay tend to be less than the full timers get or similar.

I'm a newbie as well to the US scene so be equally nice

Anyway it will come clearer to me overtime - I've got it on my side and will continue to look into it all - not sure what your timings are.

When talking with CXC make sure you understand the leave / health insurance situation. I'm looking at paying around 1400 USD a month for health insurance for a family of 4 in the North East with a pretty sizable copay and that alone is making me re-think the contracting vs full timer route here.

The obvious option here is that you go with CXC and get into a company - razzle them with some brilliance and then get them to take you on full time. The great thing is that the E3 is a category for Aussies only so getting it shifted across can't be that difficult. Downside on the E3 seems to be that you can't move to Permanent Residence that easily unlike the H1 B.

The other option is to approach some companies direct and make sure you explain what an E3 is. I suspect that most employment recruiters in the US haven't even heard of it. Its pretty much a H1B without the quota hassles.

In the UK I'm a Chartered Accountant, SAP and Oracle Financials Qualified. In AUS I worked on Microsoft Dynamics and did some time in Tax as well in the Big 5.

I'm interested in how your thing with CXC goes... could work out for me as well but I have my reservations.

Goat

goatherder

one other thing...

If you do want to move employers (ie CXC) all you need to do is submit the request to move to a new employers LCA. My understanding is that you do not need to leave the country and a new interview is not required. Even if it takes more than 10 days I think you would be fine - just have proof that you've submitted the transfer to USCIS.

E3only

Find out
how many people they actualy have in gainful positions now.
(are these in the same line of work as you or in unrelated disciplines)
Total 6000 consultants worldwide work them CXC.

How many are on unpaid leave now.
Valid Question, will ask them.

How long on average do they remain on unpaid leave.
Yes, will ask.

How long can they stay on unpaid leave before they terminate the contract
(is there a clause that means the visa becomes invalid if you stop working
for a length of time?? otherwise this could be a total wheeze\loophole).
I know !

What happens if the client deems you unsuitable or unemployable for any reason?
They will place me on unpaid leave and will find work for me. So the above Q's
become very important.

Do they guarantee your rates going forward - or could they try and offer you a
very low contract and say they have met their side of the bargain?
Another thing I will have to ask.

How long can you personally afford to stay on unpaid leave?
Hmm, thats the concern I have. I have decent experience and working for a major
bank here. My wife works. We have a home here. USA move will be for the right
reason and right job so I can gain some quality experience. No way going to move
for a cr*p placement. Can not afford to be on unpaid leave at all. I dont mean
to say I dont have the funds to support me, but would rather get as much experience
as possible.Thanks for your response.

E3only

Sorry guys long response.

Hi Goat,
Your response is much appreciated.
It’s good to know all the terms converted into Aussie slag which means I can appreciate it even more.

I have dealt with these guys over the phone and from what I gather, there are a few things that are not mentioned on the website (I have a PDF copy of their sponsorship deal and it makes certain things that you raise clearer and I will try and elaborate)

I'm a contractor in the UK at the moment. I looked at CXC for their umbrella services in the UK (you find a contract position with a company and then you choose CXC as your employer who then bill the company on your behalf. You are then a consultant of CXC but they don't actually find you work).

This is not the way it works. Basically CXC employs you and charges you 7% of your salary month on month. Once you sign up with CXC, *they* hunt for a job for you. Basically they have a relationship with a management consultancy in US who get you the job offer. *IF* you decide to take up, there is a one time charge of USD 1500 and they will do all the VISA run around and medical, tax returns etc etc. Basically you are a W-2 CXC employee. So before you leave AU you have a job to go to.

Its really to deal with the admin hassle around Payroll / National Insurance etc in the UK. In the UK they don't act as an employment business (ie Recruitment Agency). In any event I didn't join them as their fees where significantly higher than the market place - they charge a % of salary whilst others charge a flat fee irrespective of salary.

Yes, as mentioned above 1500 USD one off *only* if I accept the offer and 7% ongoing fee. Lets assume 30% tax rate and lets assume (the PDF does say that that that 7% is tax deductiable) its deductible – then the real cost is around 5% of Salary.

Your post made me go and have a look at it all and see what they do in the US. I've been trying to find a setup where I could work 4 days a week or on short term contracts in the US (so I can do some time with the kids and generally take it easy for awhile) and still get permie type benefits - ie health insurance etc... Its not been going well!

I hear you – all the best with that. But I will keep you posted. I am seeing them today face to face and ask all the questions raised.

From what I can work out they seem to offer to sponsor you on the E3 Visa and then farm you out to work at Company USA on a contract basis. My take on this is that your employer (and hence the person that holds the LCA) is CXCUSA. So if you moved from Contract A to Contract B (ie change companies where you work) then since CXCUSA hold the LCA you'd not need to get it transferred / reapply. I'm interested in how they achieve this as I thought they'd at least have to pay you whilst between contracts but who knows (They do in the UK even if its the minimum wage).

Yup, as I mentioned before, you will be a W-2 CXC employee. The PDF makes it clear in the even the contract is terminated or you are without jobs, then they place you on *unpaid* leave. They mention that is perfectly legal and they then will find you another contract. So basically they still hold your LCA. What I understand from that is, there is nothing stopping you from working there for CXC and prove to the current employer and try and get them to sponsor your E-3. Even if not that, work for say 6-8 months and try and find yourself a job. That way you can change employers and the new company holds the LCA. Something I don’t know if I am correct in saying so.

So you would be a contractor and that brings with it the uncertainity of employment you are worried about. Hence I'd suggest you have a sizable amount sitting around to handle times when you are on the bench. I typically hold around 6 months living expenses in cash for this. Having said that I've never been happier as a contractor in the UK.

Yup – what I want to know from them today is what is the contract term. *IF* they say the initial contract is 12 months. I am ready to take that risk with the assumption that post 12 months being in the US itself, it might get easier to find new contracts and network with people there to find yourself a job or worst comes just come back home (absolute worst case only). I have been reading forums and on one of them they mentioned a Financial background guy placed with CXC to the end client Barklays.
I want to make one more thing clear here, on the PDF they mention that they find work for you and enter into a 3 party binding contract where you get placed with the end client *for a certain period and certain package*. Now the question is, what is the pay ?. Which I will ask them. I will also ask them what’s the likelihood of being on unpaid leave and MOST importantly will try and get some consultants emails so ask more questions. If they cant provide me with it, then I am not going to proceed.

The issue would come if you decide to leave CXC for whatever reason - at that point you'd need to switch the LCA to another company. 10 days seems to be the standard notice period on US contracts I've seen. All my US colleagues operate under those types of arrangements. So I figure that it must be achievable although with the overhead of doing another E3 it does feel tight... Its not clear where you need to submit the new E3 either - I'd suspect that the Canadian US embassy wouldn't even know what it is - hence I'd budget on doing sometime back home if that where to happen. Worse still what happens if you can't find a role if your contract ends - sounds like CXC could cut you free and you've got 10 days to exit - nasty really.

No, as mentioned I go on an unpaid leave. Look as much as this is a risk as long as the initial contract is for a substantial period of time there is experience to gain. That 7% they charge is nasty. It’s my hard earned. But look it from another angle, as much as that, it’s in their interest to find me work as they will make a cool 7%. That’s how they survive don’t they. The one time USD 1500 won’t take them far as they have the entire E-3 visa process outsourced to a US attorney. So they ain’t going to make much money from that. The main income for them remains the 7%. It will get clearer when I talk to them today. I am guessing they will try and place you on a longer contract as they know, if I get there and change jobs they can’t do anything. Hence they mention the 3 way *binding* contract.

My view is that this means that they would not help you find work although you state that they have indicated that they may.

I know the website reads that way, but the PDF (Sponsorship Program) says they find work for us.
In any event how do you know that the end client would be happy to work with CXC for a given role ?
Agree, but that’s a risk in contracting or any job for that matter and in any country.?
Most of the discussions I've had with recruitment companies in the US seem to indicate that they take you on as an employee and then deal with the payroll type stuff (W2 etc..)

Correct, W-2 on CXC payroll and CXC bills the end client. Obviously they charge higher than what they pay me and thus make money.

For a bit of background on the US there are number of terms they use:

W2 - this is similar to a Group Certificate in Aus. ie PAYE employees get one each year outlining the wages earned, taxes paid etc...

1099 - this is a report that a company is required to lodge with the IRS each tax year. It outlines all of the payments made to suppliers in the US.

Thanks for the explanation there mate.


The other aspect I'm discovering is that contractors aren't held in the same esteem that they are in the UK / Aus. ie we are not seen as a resource available to fill a short term or niche requirement in a company for a finite period. They tend to look at you as someone who can't get a full time job for whatever reason - equally the rates of pay tend to be less than the full timers get or similar.

Contractors essentially are there to fill up the gap. With regards to how they view contractors, well really work hard and impress? Trying to be optimistic here! LOL!

Anyway it will come clearer to me overtime - I've got it on my side and will continue to look into it all - not sure what your timings are.

Goat, it would be fantastic if you have an MSN or Yahoo account and we can chat online. Much easier. Leave me a private message if you want. Can share a bit more in terms of personal life, work etc.

When talking with CXC make sure you understand the leave / health insurance situation. I'm looking at paying around 1400 USD a month for health insurance for a family of 4 in the North East with a pretty sizable copay and that alone is making me re-think the contracting vs full timer route here.
\
Unreal, I had heard the medical was expensive in US. I will ask. They do mention they organize all this but will get an idea.

The obvious option here is that you go with CXC and get into a company - razzle them with some brilliance and then get them to take you on full time. The great thing is that the E3 is a category for Aussies only so getting it shifted across can't be that difficult. Downside on the E3 seems to be that you can't move to Permanent Residence that easily unlike the H1 B.

Absolutely right, just have to work hard and prove. It’s nothing different really in AU and I assume the UK. Yup, I have heard people try and change from E-3 to H1 and then GC. Read one case on this forum which was E-3 to GC direct. Honestly – not worry about that at the moment. Totally appreciate why it’s necessary (security and stability etc) but for me its 3-4 years of good experience. When I came to AU I said the same thing and I did not go back. It is easier to do that in AU with qualifications and experience. US is a different ball game. Who knows where it will lead me. Leave that to destiny.

The other option is to approach some companies direct and make sure you explain what an E3 is. I suspect that most employment recruiters in the US haven't even heard of it. Its pretty much a H1B without the quota hassles.

Yes, but sitting here it seems very difficult. I do work for a multi national who has offices around EU and US, trying to get transferred but as you can appreciate, its being at the right place and the right time.

In the UK I'm a Chartered Accountant, SAP and Oracle Financials Qualified. In AUS I worked on Microsoft Dynamics and did some time in Tax as well in the Big 5.
Good work. I have done BCom, MCom & 2 units to go at my Chartered Management Accounting (CIMA) + 6 year’s experience (2 multi nationals). I will share more on instant chat if you want.


I'm interested in how your thing with CXC goes... could work out for me as well but I have my reservations.

[COLOR="red"]Me too, I will keep you posted. Lot of questions.

Thanks.[/COLOR]

goatherder

All sounds ok to me. 7% sounds a little steep - don't forgot they are then picking up a markup on your pay to the client - If its anything like the UK it will be around 20% at least. Sounds like a great old racket - I'm in the wrong game here.

For comparison I pay 0.5% of salary for a similar service. Admittedly they have an additional incentive to find you work however.

E3only

"I'm in the wrong game here" - don't get that.

I am not too fazed how much they charge the end client. If the money that I get in my hand is good, then thats all that matters right ?

Agree though 7% seems to be steep but he mentions that salary sacrafice advice they give (blah blah) is worth that. In any case, once they have a contract for me, they actually give me a quote which tells me exactly the salary, deductions and the take home etc.

Will elaborate in detail.....

goatherder

wrong game - meaning its a pretty good earner for them.

You should be fazed about how much they charge the end client - it impacts how much you earn and how long they'll have you around in the end!

Ray

I seem to remember that Congress intended to put a stop to this type of contact employment on H1b as well ...
Nothing has happened yet ..but probably will eventually ...

E3only

Ray,
Thanks for that. Had no idea Congress was swooping onto it.

At the momemnt, I am trying to get more info around how to get there. It is
a tough market to crack so keeping my options open.
Thanks

Ray

This things can take an age ..
always better to do it as itwas intended ..you get a job direct from an employer

E3only

Yup - that's the preference. Having trouble getting responses from them.
Assume thats to do with the fact that I am here in AU. I have added a
section on the resume to indicate E3 visa is easy to get and no petition
required etc etc. I think I will have to contact some job agencies in US.
Cheers