GarethThomason673

Hi Everyone,

Just wondering if anyone could give me some advice on an up and coming trip to the US, I seem to have stressed myself out of going ahead with my trip due to research on the internet and the fear of being turned away.

Almost three years ago to this date I was arrested for being ‘drunk and disorderly’ I was held in a police station for around 4 hours whilst I sobered up and my fingerprints, photograph and DNA taken. 4 hours later I received a £80 fixed penalty notice which I paid within 3 days and this according to the penalty notice means that paying is no admission of liability and does NOT result in a criminal record, it will simply be stored on the police national computer. My arrest was simple, a random member of the public attempted to throw a punch at me and when I staggered to avoid this, I was held by 5 or 6 officers for ‘drunk and disorderly’. Yes I too am astonished by this accusation to this day.

I have researched and my arrest does not appear to fall under the moral turpitude definition provided on Wikipedia and The US immigration website only advises of arrests involving moral turpitude. However, I stumbled across the US Embassy website that advises you must declare any arrests, even the video they have shows someone declaring stealing something in a shop when they were much, much younger. I am travelling to Boston in 12 days time to visit friends and I am not willing to contact the US Embassy at £1.69 (or whatever it is) a minute to be then told I have to go to London to apply for a visa. I also note that a page on this website advises that disorderly conduct in certain limited circumstances would mean you are inadmissible.

If I can refer you to two footballers who have records of previous arrests, for further info google the arrest (as I’m unsure if I can supply links):

1 – Ashley Cole - . In June later that year, Ashley Cole took part in several football matches in the United States, which he would require a working visa for. He was arrested for drunk and disorderly.
2 – Joseph Barton - In 2010 Joseph Barton took a holiday with friends in the USA, weeks later, he was then denied a working visa for an assault charge three years ago.

I very much doubt anyone at the US immigration is even aware who the footballers are so I doubt they have been given any ‘special permission’.

What do you all think? Do you think that I am eligible to travel under the visa waiver programme given that the arrest is not a crime of moral turpitude nor is it a criminal record or should I apply for a visa?

Do the USA have access to the UK Police national computer, of which I am stored on?

What are the certain limited circumstances for disorderly conduct?

Thanks all.

Apologies if this has been uploaded a few times, I'm not sure if it is submitting!

scrubbedexpat099

Well on the Football front have a look at this:

http://msn.foxsports.com/foxsoccer/tvschedule

There is also the Plus channel but that is not in HD.

The other issue assumes that the Consulate web site represents the law, it does not.

GarethThomason673

Sorry to mention football. Just that the footballer mentioned has the same arrest as I do and has visited the US!

The consulate website, sorry to be dumb but is that the US Embassy?

materialcontroller

Welcome to BE.

If you haven't already done so, you should apply for an ESTA and tick NO to the question about arrests or convictions involving moral turpitude. If you're approved - then you can travel on the VWP. If you're denied - then you need to reschedule this trip and make a visa application.

GarethThomason673

Thank you for your response.

Does the ESTA actually confirm I am elligble to travel though, as it wouldn't run checks for criminal record would it?

I am just worried about the US having access to the UK police national computer. Although it is a minor arrest.

materialcontroller

Yes, a legitimately obtained ESTA confirms eligibility to travel. The clue is in the name - Electronic System for Travel Authorization.

rpjs

The Home Office has stated in a FOIA request that they don't share routine police data with the US, and in any case, the terms of the ESTA/VWP are clear, a single arrest for a non-CIMT that didn't lead to a conviction does not need to be declared. That appears to be the case with you.

I know the US Embassy says "any arrest" requires a visa, but they (the Department of State) do not administer the ESTA/VWP - the Dept of Homeland Security does.

GarethThomason673

Thanks for your input and helping ease my stress a little!

Is there anything in writing that confirms a single arrest of a non-CMIT is acceptable?

Why does the US Embassy not divulge into the details of any arrest exceptions (such as minor offences)? Surely this would effect peoples willingess to travel to the US if they have to call the embassy at an extortianate rate, travel to london to attend an interview and then fork out for a visa. I have seen a page on the Embassy website that advises you need a visa for a drunk and disorderly arrest. Confusing stuff!

materialcontroller

The (extremely) simple answer as to why the US embassy don't publish things in explicit detail is because leaving it all deliberately vague allows them to apply the widest possible meanings and interpretations to things. They don't want to be hamstrung by a rigid set of conditions. The system is designed to be obscure and confusing. That is the whole point!

DavidLemon

This link defines what is and what is not a CIMT http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_turpitude

Drunkenness is not a CIMT according to this link, so you should with this information tick no to that question.

After that everything Material Controller has said is +1 from me

md95065

Sorry - regardless of how accurate or inaccurate that article may be at any given moment Wikipedia does not "define what is and what is not a CIMT".

GarethThomason673

I can see that Disorderly conduct also comes under a non-CIMT. However, on this website (cannot find the link as I am on my phone) it says disorderly conduct in certain limited circumstances would deem you inadmissable. What the certain limited circumstances exactly?

materialcontroller

When discussing CIMT I usually refer to this link: http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/86942.pdf

DavidLemon

Great link Material controller, i will defer to this in future.

md95065 - you are indeed correct, i should not have used the words define, but possibly "an unofficial guide" to what is and what is not a CIMT.

On a side note, both links do how ever state that Drunkeness is not considered a CIMT.

fatbrit

Which brings us nicely round to the health-related grounds for denying entry!