Re: Becoming a citizen?
 

Presumably from having world superpowers invade your country. :rofl:

Re: Becoming a citizen?
 

Interesting comments.

Yes, the oath is out of date, as people nowadays are more likely to travel back and forth and to retain some sort of allegiance to their former country.

But those who have said it makes sense historically, especially given the wars etc and the American struggle for independence from Britain, have a point too.

I agree that if the US were to change it, we would want it changed in the direction of dropping that requirement--not in the direction of enforcing it to the letter!

Yes, we certainly are lucky, as UK citizens, that the Uk allows us to take another citizenship without jeopardizing the UK one.

Re: Becoming a citizen?
 

I spent the whole morning of my ceremony saying something very similar.

I accept the ceremony may be more meaningful to a refugee who has found a new home or an immigrant who believes in the American dream but it should be optional. For me there was very little that felt relevant in the ceremony and sharing the "experience" with approx 200 other new citizens made it feel even more like a factory churning out a product than anything with real significance.

@Between 2 worlds
Because of the numbers involved I and any other non believers in my group were not offered any option except "so help me God". If God exists I doubt very much it cares about my allegiance to one man made set of borders or another

Re: Becoming a citizen?
 

Reminded me of this...

Ian

Re: Becoming a citizen?
 

That's interesting, Bubble. I thought people were always offered an alternative. Pacifists are also meant to be offered a way to avoid saying they will bear arms (tho I think this is arranged beforehand as they have to send documents proving they are Quakers or whatever).

Does God, if It exists, care about our allegiance? Hm. Not sure.
But what about our personal integrity? Does God, if it exists, care that we are true to ourselves?
That is my issue…..not wanting to swear to something I do not mean.

Re: Becoming a citizen?
 

Most countries (including the US) allow you to take another citizenship without jeopardizing theirs... but there are a few exceptions.

Ian

Re: Becoming a citizen?
 

At my Oath Ceremony, the judge recited a passage by George Mardikian from his book Song of America:

You who have been born in America, I wish I could make you understand what it is like not to be an American -- not to have been an American all your life -- and then suddenly with the words of a judge in flowing robes to be one, for that moment and forever after. One moment, you belong with your fathers to a million dead yesterdays -- the next you belong with America to a million unborn tomorrows.

Ian

Re: Becoming a citizen?
 

Gosh. Strong stuff. :ohmy:

Re: Becoming a citizen?
 

:lol:

Yes, EXACTLY like that.

Re: Becoming a citizen?
 

Yup! To be fair, the author was Armenian and he came to the US during a time of upheaval in his home country... but when the judge read those lines, you could hear people crying as the words spoke to many about their own struggles. It was quite moving - and, as just about everyone here knows - I'm not overly emotional about most things!

Ian

Re: Becoming a citizen?
 

These 2 things are not mutually exclusive. I think it's out of date but I'm not necessarily arguing with the idea that it made sense at one time in the past. It's out of date precisely because it now ONLY makes sense historically. None of us were around back then, today the US and the UK are strong allies and most of the world has accepted the concept of dual/multiple nationality. Yet some people who think it makes sense historically seem to disagree that it's now out of date! :huh:

But they've already tried enforcing it to the letter. It didn't work. There are now no legal restrictions on dual/multiple nationality. So the oath does not reflect reality i.e. the concept of dual/multiple citizenship and the fact that even the US government acknowledges that another country under certain circumstances can have a stronger claim to a USC's allegiance. See http://travel.state.gov/content/trav...tionality.html

So does the US!

Re: Becoming a citizen?
 

Yes--I so wish they would change it. So we could swear allegiance to the US but without having to renounce prior allegiance.
As even the US concedes people can have two allegiances.

sigh.

Re: Becoming a citizen?
 

Honestly the problem is in your head. Nobody is asking you to take up arms against the UK, nor give up your passport. There is zero effort by the US put into enforcing the oath of allegiance, and the US government has, by its actions reduced the oath to little more than mumbo-jumbo. Like the US national anthem, the oath is an historic artefact, and honestly I have more qualms about the national anthem than I do about the oath. Accept it, and take up US citizenship, and please stop torturing yourself. :)

Re: Becoming a citizen?
 

Thanks, Pulaski!

Maybe I will be able to do this eventually! I hope so….

But I am more like that American girl whom I quoted in an earlier post, having an ethical problem with it…swearing an oath is still a serious issue, for me!

Re: Becoming a citizen?
 

Your location states that you are living in the UK -- is this relevant to you because you are planning on moving back to the US at some point? If not, citizenship would seem to be moot if you haven't taken the step already.