Pulaski

Same here, so I am off the hook until June 2017.

They called Mrs P when she was FIVE months pregnant, so she asked to be excused. The judge denied her request, but granted her a THREE month deferral.

She didn't want to have to return to court leaving a two month old baby at home, so showed up for jury duty when eight months pregnant. The clerk asked why she hadn't asked to be excused?

ian-mstm

I don't know about other states, but in Kentucky the jury list is taken from DMV records. I was called to serve on a jury in 2002 but had to decline because I still had my green card at the time and wasn't allowed to serve. In the 11 years since I've been a USC, I haven't once been contacted again... and I really would like the opportunity to serve on a jury! So, I keep waiting.

Ian

tht

I was being sarcastic.... maybe NYC has a higher need, but in 5 years here on a visa/GC I have received the letter 3 times, once in Manhattan and twice in Kings, and had to provide proof each time that I am NOT a USC to be excused.

I did have to go and give evidence to a grand Jury in Kings, which was an interesting experience.

between two worlds

To go back to the OP's question, I certainly do "get it," I get the hesitation about becoming an American citizen.

If I were in the OP's shoes, though, and sure I never wanted to go back to the UK, I would probably do it.

My position is different--I want to be based in the UK now, but want the ability to go back and forth with USC spouse and to visit my adult child.

Everyone says I should become a citizen--no more Green card (I just renewed with great difficulty, time, and expense), free to come and go, etc etc, all the reasons that have been given here. And I do understand the reasons why.

But I have a problem with it that no-one else seems to relate to.
I would do it in a heartbeat if the wording of the oath were different.
But as it is, I would have to say, under oath, that I renounce all allegiance to my former country (UK).

And just in case I am mentally crossing my fingers behind my back, I have to say, under oath, that I am renouncing allegiance and etc etc without any "mental reservation". In other words I have to swear under oath that I am not mentally crossing my fingers behind my back!

Since I do not want to renounce allegiance to the UK, I find this idea, of swearing to something I don't mean, and swearing on top of it that I do really mean it unreservedly, most repugnant.

I know they don't actually enforce it, don't take your passport away.
I know it would make life so much easier to be a citizen, and indeed, in 10 years time I may well give in and come down off my high horse and do it.
(Or before that, if given a hard time by some border control person!).

But why do we have to swear to that, why is the oath written that way??
New UK citizens have to swear allegiance to the Queen, but they do not have to renounce allegiance to their former country.

Wy doesn't the US accept that one can want to be a citizen of two countries, especially if married to a USC??

I have lived decades in the US, contributed to communities, paid taxes, etc etc. I feel it is fair enough to claim citizenship, even if I do want to spend a lot of time, even the majority of it, in the land of my birth now.

Why won't the US let me be both, as children born of parents from different countries can be? When my US children applied for the British passports they are entitled to as my children, the UK didn't make them give up their US citizenship. They can hold both, and be dual citizens!
Why can't I, without having to renounce allegiance to my own country?

Just had to rant.
I have said it all before, and each time, people here tell me not to be so daft and just get on with it!
I always hope to find someone else who has also felt uncomfortable with this oath….

kimilseung

For me, there always seems to be something else to spend $700.00 on.

ian-mstm

Well... because the US went to war to break away from Britain and, having done so, wants to ensure that US citizens are loyal to the US and to no one else.

Ian

tht

They do, and they let you do it (don't force you to legally renounce your other Citizenship), count yourself lucky that it's that easy for you and you can keep both. Indians do not fare so well, and neither do some Europeans who have to jump through hoops to keep their Citizenship when becoming a USC.

MarylandNed

At this point the oath is largely ceremonial and doesn't mean much in terms of losing citizenship - except for those countries who don't allow multiple citizenships and, even then, it's not the actual oath that causes the problem, rather it's the fact you became a citizen of another country. Anyway, this doesn't affect citizens of the UK since the UK allows its citizens to hold multiple citizenships. So you retain your UK citizenship and passport. The UK decides who is and who isn't a UK citizen - not the US. If you want to renounce your UK citizenship, you have to go through a separate process with the UK government - the US oath means nothing in that regard.

I have naturalized in Canada and the US and now have 4 different citizenships. For us it was a way to secure our ability (and our kids' ability) to come and go to the US.

sir_eccles

Fairly cheap to be honest. Who knows how much it will cost next year.

between two worlds

Good point; I did not realise some other nationalities have difficulty keeping two citizenships.

Re your first point, yes, I know they don't force you to legally renounce your other citizenship. But they force you to swear you renounce your allegiance..

"I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen."
…then a whole bit about fidelity to the Constitution and fighting on behalf of the US etc….and finally,
.."and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God."

I know that in practice,as long as UK and USA are not at war, this doesn't actually make a difference to my life.
But as a British citizen, I feel very strange renouncing, in such strong language, all my allegiance and fidelity to Queen and country. Especially as I hope to spend longer periods of time in that country, UK, and exercise there all the rights and responsibilities of a citizen.

It's the wording of what we have to swear to that bothers me. Doesn't anyone relate?

sir_eccles

As long as they don't start chaining you to a desk until you fill in both parts of form RN then get it countersigned by someone who knows you, then make you write a check for 223 GBP, place the whole lot in an envelope along with evidence you are getting another citizenship and mail it to the UK, then I think you're ok.

https://www.gov.uk/renounce-british-nationality/apply

Nutmegger

No-one forces you to do anything. It is your choice. You do it or you don't, your decision. Two words for you: lip sync.

Pulaski

Less than two GC renewals, isn't it? ...... So apply 18 months ahead of your next GC renewal to be sure not to have to renew your GC while you have a citizenship application pending.

kimilseung

I dont think I have any allegiance or fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate or state. I think that is a different issue to having a sense of belonging and ownership to the country and culture of Britain.

kimilseung

Good point. I'll put that date in my calendar.