S Folinsky

Lots of arguments here. OP's story kind of keeps morphing so I have no idea anymore of the facts -- he has been consistent in his anger. As for the actual legal question he posed -- it was quickly confirmed that the CPB officer gave him a good description of the law.

I have trouble understanding where his anger is coming from. There is a big difference between applying for admission to pursuant to a visa and being admitted and sneaking through a hole in the fence. In fact, OP describes a successful application for admission. Observation of the posts on this board show that most people, including many UK citizens seem to be happy with such result. However, "a foolish consistency" is boring. Pursuant to Emerson, it can be said that many government officials have "great minds."

Historical note: As a result of the American Revolution, the US dumped King George III and Parliament. Otherwise, the US retained the English law. In many ways, the Common Law was rigid although it allowed some flexibility [aka stare decisis]. When "law" provided "inadequate" remedies, the Monarch could intervene via his Chancellor in Equity. These English roots still inform US law to this day. [The law of torts in the US often looks to the "Wagon Mound" and "Polemis" cases. However, "Palzgraff" did arise in New York.]

Some random musings with "no advice intended nor given."

goldenstate31

Interesting thread, I can see both flips of the coin here both from the OPs point of view and that of the immigration officer at POE.
But however, from an 'economic' point of view America really shouldn't be alienating anybody at this moment in time.
America really needs as many tourists and all the help that it can get in these times of economic crisis that America and greece! And the UK are experiencing right now.
Sadly some have dilusions of granduer.

meauxna

I'm thinking that the OP did get to do this for several years, is no longer interested in doing it, and did want to come here to vent their spleen.
He's upset because he was embarassed at the POE and wanted to know if the border agent was wrong. If the agent was right, OP wanted us to know that he thought that was bad policy.

I disagree, goldenstate, with a 'let 'em all in if they have some tourist dollars' policy. I don't think the US policy is alienating people in general and I don't think immigration policy should be changed to allow multi-year visitors to come live in the US if they spend a few bucks.

Greece has its own problems.

Lissbovavd

meauxna,

May I respectfully venture to disagree with you when you are stating that the US (immigration) policy is not alienating people in general.

I can assure you that the immigration policy of the US, most regrettably, is becoming highly contentious in Europe and probably in quite a few other places as well.
And, mind you, I´m speaking of genuine tourists here with no intentions whatsoever of settling in the US, legally or illegally.
Countless friends and aquaintances of mine have been seriously put off by the all too often imperious behaviour and confrontational attitudes of the CBP officers manning the US POE´s.

Add to that the considerable difficulty of interpreting the intricacies of US immigration law even from the standpoint of genuine tourists, and the fact that even such genuine visitors face the very real risk of being turned back at the POE for not having displayed enough "respect" for the CBP officer at the gate - and you end up with the kind of situation which in the long run is not conducive to considering visiting one of the most fascinating places in the world.

crg

When you develop a good way to sort out the legal tourist from the rest, be sure to share it with the US government.

A relaxed immigration policy would fill the hotels with foreigners. I suspect that they'll get a few more paying guests, but many more will also be working at the hotels without authorization.

How do you propose that they filter these people out? Making people pinky-swear that they will leave and not work? Much of Europe can already travel to the US with only a passport and completing a free internet form. How much easier would you like it to be? Many people who have problems are abusing that system by stringing together long trips that are close together.

If you're someone who is stringing trips together, be prepared to prove that you have the means to do so and a home to return to.

discoviking

That's your opinion, which of course you are entitled to. But I do get the sense that you just might have a tiny chip on your shoulder.

I am not getting the same sense that US immigration policy is that big of a deal to genuine tourists from reading the Norwegian media at least. Nor have i heard much of a concern from my friends or family. My sister for example, has been coming to the US for a a couple of weeks in Florida and a cruise with her husband and kid for years, and has never expressed to me that she has had any particular problematic or unpleasant entries, even with a norwegian born and now USC brother living in the US. They travel on Norwegian passports, using the VWP, with ESTA authorization.

Perhaps a quote or two from Magnus Uggla is appropriate for you: (I really like his work by the way)

"Varför ska jag vara svenskfödd, och inte en lycklig amerikan,...."

"Oh oh oh Tjena allena världen är brutal...."

Have a nice day!

My apologies to the non-scandinavian speakers for the quotes in swedish. They don't translate that well into english - especially when taken out of context, unfortunately.

ian-mstm

With all due respect, I don't believe the US actually cares who gets bent out of shape. Oddly, the Japanese don't seem to have a problem following the rules - and, on an annual basis, they spend far more money in the US than do Europeans. I suggest the Europeans are put off because they are used to travelling in/out of countries so easily, they can't imagine that any country would make it difficult for them. After all, they're Europeans... and therefore entitled to travel wherever they want.

Ian

discoviking

I agree, and I'm not so sure the europeans care either - when the shoe is on the other foot. If you take a cursory look at the Schengen visa rules you'll notice that they don't seem that radically different from the US rules. A US citizen is allowed 90 days visa free entry, no work allowed, and has to have enough money for the duration of the trip. Seems reasonable, and similar to the US VWP to me.

Since Norway don't allow dual citizenship and I have to travel on my US passport now since becoming a USC, I can only speculate what would happen if I tried to to go to - say for example France for 90 days, return to the US for a week, go back to France for another 90 days, return to the US for a week or two - you get my drift.

Let's just say I have seen my share of grumpy european officials while living there, and just leave it at that.

goldenstate31

I treated my mum and dad last year (for their anniversary) to two week holiday in the states, they done arizona, vegas, grand canyon etc.
The last time they had a holiday in the states was about 3 years previously but I remember my dad telling me that they had a million questions at POE, it neither shocked him or surprised him, he just said its different to the uk!! When they came back into heathrow there was NO officers even there!! I kid you not.

traceym

The flip side to that which you may be forgetting is............
Countless US friends and aquaintances of mine have been seriously put off by the all too often imperious behaviour and confrontational attitudes of the UKBA officers manning the UK POE´s.

There are two sides to every story!

goldenstate31

you mean there is actually border control in the UK

Lissbovavd

Well ,well,

We are getting very patriotic now, aren´t we.....

I guess that particular pattern works pretty much the same way as, say, people being fervent converts to the Catholic faith or whatever faith one wasn´t born into, but now embraces rather unquestioningly and to an even greater extent than most non-converts.

It´s actually quite amusing to see how close-minded quite a few people here seem to be when it comes to accepting even the tiniest amount of criticism pertaining to the US immigration policy or the negative experiences of all too many "aliens" at the US POE´s.
I can assure you that this is most definitely NOT a myth!
Just check out the opinions of quite a few Canadians on this matter, and you´d be surprised to notice that this is not just a European "thing", due to those Schengen-spoiled and border-hopping EU citizens!

Sometimes, I seriously think that the US should cease accepting any "alien" visitors whatsoever, if the rather blinkered attitudes I´m seeing here are anything to go by.

Surely, things would be so much quieter and nicer without any nasty "aliens" to worry about.

Problem solved!

nolimits

Ouch!!! Lets hope UK never becomes so unwelcoming to our US visitors, who I believe are still streaming in!!!

meauxna

They already -are- that unwelcoming. As a UK citizen, you probably never experienced a visitor admission to your own country.

nolimits

I worked for an american airline in UK for many years and worked alongside UK boarder control. (even married one!) I never saw anyone being treated aggressively or unfairly.
I have always found the americans very agreeable, but it was a bit of a disappointment to see how unfriendly the POE in US can be. I have to say I have known many people have a bad time with them for simply just entering US for a holiday, it probably will put "aliens" off visiting US in the future.