B2 Visa / VWP/ E2 & criminal record etc
Mar 26th 2009, 4:43 pm
#31
American Expat
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 7,598
Re: B2 Visa / VWP/ E2 & criminal record etc
well its proving to be a grey area whether i was arrested or not and whether my crime is Moral turpitude or not....so at least i feel slightly better that when visiting the states (3 times on hol) between 2005 - 2008 i ticked NO under arrest box because i genuily believed i was NOT arrested....the form didnt ask if i was summoned!!! ....anyway how on earth will the London US embassy know whether i ticked yes or no on the plane as millions of these forms were completed????
Have you ever been arrested or convicted for an offense or crime involving moral turpitude or a violation related to a controlled substance; or have been arrested or convicted for two or more offenses for which the aggregate sentance to confinement was five years or more; or have been a controlled substance trafficker; or are you seeking entry to engage in criminal or immoral activities ?
They save all of the forms but may not even need to look at them. The first thing they have to do is see if the conviction has immigration consequences. If the conviction didn't make you ineligible to go to the US on the VWP, then it doesn't matter how you answered the question.
They save the ESTA information for at least 15 years so they probably save the I-94 info for at least that long.
Last edited by crg; Mar 26th 2009 at 4:50 pm.
Mar 26th 2009, 4:43 pm
#32
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 68,280
Re: B2 Visa / VWP/ E2 & criminal record etc
well its proving to be a grey area whether i was arrested or not and whether my crime is Moral turpitude or not....so at least i feel slightly better that when visiting the states (3 times on hol) between 2005 - 2008 i ticked NO under arrest box because i genuily believed i was NOT arrested....the form didnt ask if i was summoned!!! ....anyway how on earth will the London US embassy know whether i ticked yes or no on the plane as millions of these forms were completed????
so you actually was arrested, charged and convicted all at the same time ..
Mar 26th 2009, 4:52 pm
#33
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 222
Re: B2 Visa / VWP/ E2 & criminal record etc
The question asks:
Have you ever been arrested or convicted for an offense or crime involving moral turpitude or a violation related to a controlled substance; or have been arrested or convicted for two or more offenses for which the aggregate sentance to confinement was five years or more; or have been a controlled substance trafficker; or are you seeking entry to engage in criminal or immoral activities ?
They save all of the forms but may not even need to look at them. The first thing they have to do is see if the conviction has immigration consequences. If the conviction didn't make you ineligible to go to the US on the VWP, then it doesn't matter how you answered the question.
They save the ESTA information for at least 15 years so they probably save the I-94 info for at least that long.
Have you ever been arrested or convicted for an offense or crime involving moral turpitude or a violation related to a controlled substance; or have been arrested or convicted for two or more offenses for which the aggregate sentance to confinement was five years or more; or have been a controlled substance trafficker; or are you seeking entry to engage in criminal or immoral activities ?
They save all of the forms but may not even need to look at them. The first thing they have to do is see if the conviction has immigration consequences. If the conviction didn't make you ineligible to go to the US on the VWP, then it doesn't matter how you answered the question.
They save the ESTA information for at least 15 years so they probably save the I-94 info for at least that long.
Mar 26th 2009, 5:08 pm
#34
American Expat
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 7,598
Re: B2 Visa / VWP/ E2 & criminal record etc
thanks CRG for reminding me of the sentence on the form.....i would still tick NO....becuase a) i was not arrested b) my crime is not moral turpitude and c) i was only given probabtion for 2 yrs.........now on the plane i didnt have a lawyer with me so how could I legally know if my crime was Moral Turpitude or not...same as the emabssy officer will not be a trained lawyer how will he or she know for sure??? also i could have ticked yes and border control could have still let me in.....how would the emabassu know what i ticked??..unless they have copies of every green waiver form from every tourist...millions of copies??...i also know that the border control state side is still not linked to the UK's police computer hence many criminals are still entering illegally.....
The forms have a serial number on them and they are stored on microfilm.
Here's a link to a document describing I-94 arrival records that they still have from the year 1907.
http://www.archives.gov/research/microfilm/a3400.pdf
The embassy officials are usually not lawyers, but they have access to lawyers. The lawyers provide the embassy with what is called an "advisory opinion" when it is not clear if the offense is a CIMT or if you committed fraud or not.
So, how old were you at the time of the offense?
Mar 26th 2009, 5:10 pm
#35
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 222
Re: B2 Visa / VWP/ E2 & criminal record etc
By signing the form, you indicated that you read and understood the question. If in doubt you should have left it blank until you could ask the officer for a clarification.
The forms have a serial number on them and they are stored on microfilm.
Here's a link to a document describing I-94 arrival records that they still have from the year 1907.
http://www.archives.gov/research/microfilm/a3400.pdf
The embassy officials are usually not lawyers, but they have access to lawyers. The lawyers provide the embassy with what is called an "advisory opinion" when it is not clear if the offense is a CIMT or if you committed fraud or not.
So, how old were you at the time of the offense?
The forms have a serial number on them and they are stored on microfilm.
Here's a link to a document describing I-94 arrival records that they still have from the year 1907.
http://www.archives.gov/research/microfilm/a3400.pdf
The embassy officials are usually not lawyers, but they have access to lawyers. The lawyers provide the embassy with what is called an "advisory opinion" when it is not clear if the offense is a CIMT or if you committed fraud or not.
So, how old were you at the time of the offense?
Mar 26th 2009, 10:41 pm
#37
Account Closed
Joined: Aug 2002
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 38,865
Re: B2 Visa / VWP/ E2 & criminal record etc
... the LAW i broke was the telecommunications act sending threatening or indecent material
Ian
Mar 26th 2009, 11:29 pm
#38
Joined: Apr 2005
Location: Milwaukie, Oregon
Posts: 9,970
Re: B2 Visa / VWP/ E2 & criminal record etc
In the UK a summons is not an arrest. It is an alternative means of bringing someone before a court when the circumstances do not warrant an arrest. A summons is not a restriction on someones liberty as they are perfectly able to ignore the summons. Consequences follow if they do usually being arrested on a warrant issued by the Court for to enable them to have their liberty restricted and taken to court.
Mar 26th 2009, 11:44 pm
#39
Joined: Apr 2005
Location: Milwaukie, Oregon
Posts: 9,970
Re: B2 Visa / VWP/ E2 & criminal record etc
no i basically called up a company THE DETAIL: at 2 am in the morning 15 YEARS AGO (and a one off) and called them Nazis....the reasons were in my view justified but no need to go into detail.....the LAW i broke was the telecommunications act sending threatening or indecent material.......THIS IS ALL thats on my court record, ACPO record and police record.- THE LAW BIT not THE DETAIL BIT.....so i m thinking i obviousley admit to breakign this law but if asked could say something slightlt different...tone in down so to speak as my RECORDS ONLY show the LAW broken not the detail.....
If I remember correctly there is no power of arrest for the offense so triable by summons only and a person guilty of an offense under this section shall be liable on summary conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months or to a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale, or to both. That is of course the maximum and most got a fine or probation or both.
Mar 27th 2009, 1:08 pm
#40
Forum Regular
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 209
Re: B2 Visa / VWP/ E2 & criminal record etc
The arrest part is irrelevant - you were convicted. Now work out if its a CIMT
The police in the UK arrest someone for their legal protection and the legal protection of the person arrested. ie procedures were followed correctly, solicitors were offered, etc etc. The police also arrest someone to have more powers of interview etc. You willingly were interviewed. They didn't need to arrest you. It gave them no advantage. Had you walked out they would have arrested you.
As I said - the arrest part is irrelevant - you were convicted.
You're applying for a B2 on the basis you've been convicted. Oddly if they grant you a B2 you could have probably still used the VWP anyway.
The police in the UK arrest someone for their legal protection and the legal protection of the person arrested. ie procedures were followed correctly, solicitors were offered, etc etc. The police also arrest someone to have more powers of interview etc. You willingly were interviewed. They didn't need to arrest you. It gave them no advantage. Had you walked out they would have arrested you.
As I said - the arrest part is irrelevant - you were convicted.
You're applying for a B2 on the basis you've been convicted. Oddly if they grant you a B2 you could have probably still used the VWP anyway.
Dec 25th 2009, 1:28 pm
#41
Just Joined
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 13
Re: B2 Visa / VWP/ E2 & criminal record etc
Some background info:
My GF has just got her E2 Visa. I have a B2 visa interview booked in for June at US embassy (to see if they will let me in !!) and if I get a B2 we will get married & I will appy for the E2 dependant visa I dont wnat to go for E2 first in case i get rejected, we ve got married and live in different countries!!!!!. I do have a criminal conviction though was not arressted but received 2 yrs probabation back in 1993. My lawyer seems to think it is moral turpitude though im not convinced..I have paid for my ACPO police file (which you have to get if have record / been arrested before any interview at US embassy) and obtained a copy of my court record showing the crime, However the DEATAIL of said crime is not on these forms only what law was broken and the sentence served and plead given etc..which leaves my interpretation of crime if asked.....
So my questions are;
1) surely is it possible to tone down the offence (if asked at embassy) as it is IMPOSSIBLE for anyone to get the full details of the incident as it is NOT on ANY police record or court papers?...only the law broken which could cover 100s of incidents under the Act.
2) My lawyer also feels that the fact i have been to US in 2005, 2006 on holiday and ticked NO under VWP, will be a 'BIG' issue, though my argument is my crime was not Moral turpitude and i wasnt arrested, hence ticking NO.......though if embassy asks could i just say i ticked yes on the old green visa waiver forms on the plane and the border officer let me through???...how would the embassy know if i ticked yes or no???????....i dont want to be seen as someone who has lied and entered the US illegally (even though i dont feel i have)....why raise the issue if i can be economically with the story????? .......or why admit to something if i dont really need too...??...My lawyer is making a big issue about this and i feel they are making me nervous to secure their fees (i.e make me use them even though they cannot guarantee success!!)
3) My lawyer wants £2 500 for basically doing the B2 paperwork ....im not convinced this is money well spent as all her comments thus far seem to be nagagtive...any thoughts??
4) The US govt still cant check police records and my crime is in a GREY area under moral turpitude....so i could travel under VWP as i did a dummy ESTA form last month and ticked no in all boxes and got clearence..HOWEVER i know the US govt are looking into linking with the UK police systems soon, so i would rather be cautious and get B2 visa which also lasts 6 months per annum (possibly more) over ten yrs......
A one silly drunken night out 15 yrs ago out should not ruin the rest of my life and my lawyer is not giving me much confidence...any thoughts would be appreciated.....
Thanks
My GF has just got her E2 Visa. I have a B2 visa interview booked in for June at US embassy (to see if they will let me in !!) and if I get a B2 we will get married & I will appy for the E2 dependant visa I dont wnat to go for E2 first in case i get rejected, we ve got married and live in different countries!!!!!. I do have a criminal conviction though was not arressted but received 2 yrs probabation back in 1993. My lawyer seems to think it is moral turpitude though im not convinced..I have paid for my ACPO police file (which you have to get if have record / been arrested before any interview at US embassy) and obtained a copy of my court record showing the crime, However the DEATAIL of said crime is not on these forms only what law was broken and the sentence served and plead given etc..which leaves my interpretation of crime if asked.....
So my questions are;
1) surely is it possible to tone down the offence (if asked at embassy) as it is IMPOSSIBLE for anyone to get the full details of the incident as it is NOT on ANY police record or court papers?...only the law broken which could cover 100s of incidents under the Act.
2) My lawyer also feels that the fact i have been to US in 2005, 2006 on holiday and ticked NO under VWP, will be a 'BIG' issue, though my argument is my crime was not Moral turpitude and i wasnt arrested, hence ticking NO.......though if embassy asks could i just say i ticked yes on the old green visa waiver forms on the plane and the border officer let me through???...how would the embassy know if i ticked yes or no???????....i dont want to be seen as someone who has lied and entered the US illegally (even though i dont feel i have)....why raise the issue if i can be economically with the story????? .......or why admit to something if i dont really need too...??...My lawyer is making a big issue about this and i feel they are making me nervous to secure their fees (i.e make me use them even though they cannot guarantee success!!)
3) My lawyer wants £2 500 for basically doing the B2 paperwork ....im not convinced this is money well spent as all her comments thus far seem to be nagagtive...any thoughts??
4) The US govt still cant check police records and my crime is in a GREY area under moral turpitude....so i could travel under VWP as i did a dummy ESTA form last month and ticked no in all boxes and got clearence..HOWEVER i know the US govt are looking into linking with the UK police systems soon, so i would rather be cautious and get B2 visa which also lasts 6 months per annum (possibly more) over ten yrs......
A one silly drunken night out 15 yrs ago out should not ruin the rest of my life and my lawyer is not giving me much confidence...any thoughts would be appreciated.....
Thanks
Any outcomes to your case yet? Thanks
